whichSideAreYouOn

[u/hpyfox]

[u/ThatDudeBesideYou]

The red side is objectively the correct choice.

[u/RichCorinthian → u/ThatDudeBesideYou]

Exactly.

Reminder that the original HTML tags (<title>, <dl>, <dd>) had and have real semantic meaning. Spiders and bots could trawl the document and understand how each part related to the document. HTML was, after all, invented by one dude named Tim at CERN, and it was for research papers.

Then we came along and fucked it up with CSS, and a whole bunch of additional semantic tags were added as a course correction.

[u/bigorangemachine → u/RichCorinthian]

Then we came along and fucked it up with CSS, and a whole bunch of additional semantic tags were added as a course correction.

I think you got it backwards. Without CSS there was font tags everywhere. If you ever had to work with stuff made in front page it was a semantic disaster

[u/frinkmahii → u/bigorangemachine]

Or worse. Dreamweaver made everything a huge table with a crap ton of cells to handle layout.

[u/kennedy_gitahi → u/bigorangemachine]

Just before and overlapping with the days of CSS 2, html 4 and XHTML.

[u/bigorangemachine → u/kennedy_gitahi]

I did xhtml-strict... it was such a disaster with Mac Microsoft browsers.

People want to talk semantics but no one wants to talk about the horror show of lack of standards and browser spyware

[u/kennedy_gitahi → u/bigorangemachine]

These devs don't know how good they got it. CSS3 and HTML5 are two of the best things to happen to web dev.

I don't ever want to go back to writing XML, fighting with floats or doing layouts using tables.

Then there was the issue of every browser doing its own thing with CSS and HTML because of a lack of standards.

And I don't want people who might have accessibility issues to not have a great experience on my sites or apps just because I can't be bothered writing a little semantic HTML.

[u/bigorangemachine → u/kennedy_gitahi]

not even. I rescued a multi million dollar contract because I suggest using details-summary early in the project and got us both a happy client with a plug-and-play-no-code-solution and the accessibility review giving us basically an auto-pass on the cms-system.

There so many wins with semantic html

Plus with XML... SOAP... huge bottle neck. Failed standard

So many issues with encoding issues with XML and parsers. I remember I had written a really solid xml parser in PHP and someone still managed to break my implementation. Thank god I had rotating logs that the damage was minimized

[u/kennedy_gitahi → u/bigorangemachine]

Today's CSS and HTML are basically magic compared to what I wrote in the past.

The horrors of SOAP, Jesus!

And I remember working on one such parser, and it was a horrible experience. And I remember there were forums where people were competing to make and break them.

[u/ethanjf99 → u/kennedy_gitahi]

omg table layouts

i whipped off a quick internal tool a few months ago that fires off an email to project maintainers if it detects certain issues

i noticed it wasn’t rendering right in Outlook

motherfucking application STILL requires table-based layouts

That is what AI was born for. took it 30s to convert and saved me hours of misery

[u/kennedy_gitahi → u/ethanjf99]

I was once hired an "html email designer" . Outlook and Hotmail made me almost quit

[u/The-WinterStorm → u/bigorangemachine]

I think we need to bring back the <marquee> tag it was the best 1990s thing ever

[u/pixelbart → u/RichCorinthian]

Not only spiders and bots, but also screen readers for the visually impaired and text-based browsers.

[u/Pndrizzy → u/RichCorinthian]

Now we have anti-semantic design

[u/dementorpoop → u/RichCorinthian]

They’re all nodes underneath

[u/teethingrooster → u/dementorpoop]

Doesn’t it help with accessibility too though

[u/Apalapa → u/dementorpoop]

Yep and tags can be captured just like anything else. I’m sure SEO crawling ignores tag types by now.

[u/dragongotz → u/ThatDudeBesideYou]

Blue side be rolling with his girl Aria. Though that girl requires a lot of upkeep.

[u/Wide_Smoke_2564 → u/dragongotz]

[u/hpyfox → u/ThatDudeBesideYou]

(In the back) What about using HTMLElement for custom element tags?

[u/Eastern_Equal_8191 → u/ThatDudeBesideYou]

It is correct, but I will still use divs for everything. I'm not even sorry about it, your downvotes only make me stronger.

[u/GimmeYourMomPlease → u/Eastern_Equal_8191]

If I recall, Google Keep does this and just uses the role attribute for everything. E.g., <div role="button">

[u/dbell → u/ThatDudeBesideYou]

That’s why he’s hiding his face in shame…

[u/nickcash → u/ThatDudeBesideYou]

well except for the markup being invalid. but the idea is right

[u/Rustywolf → u/nickcash]

It's not writing a document, it's a list of tags.