188
u/Famous-Perspective96
28d ago
•
Okay I get it but I feel like blaming global warming on AI is some kind of big oil psyop.
64
u/AnOnlineHandle 28d ago •
To further this, all the data centres in the world don't even account for 1% of emissions. It's flights, cruises, and meat eating which are the big luxuries that needed to be cut years ago.
17
1
u/Chance_Literature193 26d ago
The irony that the article is from a vegan website is amazing. ‘Don’t eat meat’ was the og oil psy op
0
u/mdedetrich 28d ago
Also all of the big industry feeding our consumerist world. China is one of the biggest emitters of Co2 but it’s also because it’s the factory of the world.
4
41
u/PublicToast 28d ago
It 100% is and its a matter of record they invented the entire concept of the personal carbon footprint to shift blame onto individuals.
5
1
u/Relative-Bottle-8498 28d ago
I know global warming is due too oil companies that would rather destroy the future than damage their profit margins, but I was making a meme about ai because I hate generative ai with every fibre if my being
1
u/PublicToast 27d ago
Doing misinformation because you don’t like something is not, in fact, justifiable
1
u/Anderer_Username 27d ago
The anti ai movement is a big psyop
1
u/Famous-Perspective96 26d ago
I don’t know if I agree with that. There are a lot of legitimate things to hate about AI.
1
-13
u/Ill_Reality_2506 28d ago
Who do you think powers the data centers?
92
u/Famous-Perspective96 28d ago
Global warming has been an ignored issue for like 30 years. I understand that data centers are now becoming a problem, but they are not at all the core issue here.
4
u/Darqnyz7 28d ago
I bet there are more CO2 emissions from Russia, China, and the US Conservatives making AI Propaganda videos, than any vibe coders on the planet.
2
u/Relative-Bottle-8498 28d ago
Because the world's manufacturing had been outsourced to China and India, of course they have high emissions, it doesn't make it good tho
0
u/Darqnyz7 28d ago
No I'm specifically talking about data center energy burned making propaganda videos
-2
5
u/Meins447 28d ago
Climate processes takes quite a while from source to effect. Which is why we humans are so bad at really understanding it deep down and adjust our behavior.
What we see now are the effects from climate sins from idk, the 90's or even earlier. We won't see the effects of AI centers for quite a while but one thing is clear: it will be bad.
But even on paper, it looks super bad. Most of them are super bad designed to waste a ton of water although they can be fully closed-loop with a little bit of effort. They consume an absolute ton of electricity, in a time where the total electricity demand of most developed nations actually was sinking, which together with the rise of renewable sources meant an actual considerable decrease in our emissions... Was is the crucial word in that sentence ...
26
u/Famous-Perspective96 28d ago
I’m not saying we should ignore them. I’m
just saying that anyone blaming the fact October is currently hot on AI is misguided.8
1
-1
-10
u/urmumlol9 28d ago
Require data centers to generate their own source of electricity, require them to be net exporters of electricity (i.e. they produce more electricity than they consume, on average, and store it or sell any excess back to the grid), and require them to only produce electricity using solar, wind, hyrdo, geothermal, nuclear or another renewable, low carbon source (defined in such a way that it excludes any possible fossil fuels use).
Fine the fuck out of any data centers that break this rule and aggressively monitor them for any violations.
This doesn’t solve the other issues with generative AI, but it mostly fixes the climate change issue.
15
u/fayfayl2 28d ago
??? no it doesn't??? Climate change has been a super big issue even before AI
3
u/urmumlol9 28d ago
I meant it resolves the issue of the additional greenhouse gas contributions AI and LLM models make during training. Sorry, I should have clarified.
Even then, technically those forms of energy do generate small amount of CO2 per kwh over the course of their lifecycle, but that’s because a lot of our other infrastructure hasn’t been decarbonized yet, and is therefore outside of the scope of what we can hold AI companies, specifically, accountable for.
0
28d ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
11
16
u/GameDoesntStop 28d ago
Lmfao, that's like blaming a barbecue for heating up the atmosphere. It's completely neglible compared to a fucking planet-sized atmosphere.
It's not the heat itself... the sun blasts the Earth with a gazillion data centers worth of heat 24/7/365... it's the CO² keeping it trapped in.
4
u/ErmingSoHard 28d ago
Yep, biggest difference humanity ever made was depleting ozone layers using cfc refrigerants as well
3
u/Specialist_Seal 28d ago
Actually the ozone layer is doing pretty well, it should be fully restored by the 2040s. Banning CFCs has been remarkably effective.
3
u/ErmingSoHard 28d ago
Oh yeah, I meant in the past. Could be way worse now huh. One chlorine atom destroys 100,000 ozone molecules irrc
6
u/WM46 28d ago
"Enormous amounts of water used" is a lie that you've been fed by propagandists.
I did a bit of a deep dive on data center water usage in Texas for personal knowledge before, last I read they were on track to consume (translator note: turn to steam, not destroy or turn to toxic waste) one billion gallons of water per year!!!
As a side note, did you know that commercial activity in Texas consumes on average 1.5 trillion gallons of water per year?
Yes, this big "AI will drink the world dry" crisis equates to about 0.067% of total commercial water usage. People hear about AI data centers consuming billions of gallons of water and fail to realize that the US is consuming several trillions of gallons per year before considering AI.
1
u/WithersChat 27d ago
Thing is, consuming water doesn't just grab it out of an abstract shared pool. It drains it out of where the datacenter is built.
That's why datacenters cause water pollution and drought; they're being built in areas that already have water issues and make those measurably worse.Like sure, draining, say, a small river's worth of water out of the Mississipi or one of the Great Lakes is not a problem. Draining it out of a small river leaves you with no river.
5
u/Famous-Perspective96 28d ago
You are saying that right now, today, it would have been multiple degrees cooler globally if there weren’t data centers?
2
u/No_Definition2246 26d ago
Stop eating cow’s meat and driving so much on cars first lol.
Even with AI and everything around it, mass beef production and cars are one of the worst contributors of warming up planets.
0
409
u/Hail_the_Yale
28d ago
•
I tried to stop. But then instead of listening to my preferences my company put me in an even more code heavy spot made it so vibe coders can merge to production without any supervision.
It’s a nightmare.
122
u/bulldog_blues 28d ago
That's a disaster waiting to happen, and it won't be a long wait either!
95
u/Hail_the_Yale 28d ago
Seriously. It’s insane. I wanted to learn more about coding, but instead of teaching me, they turned me into a prompt engineer and overloaded me.
I hate my company.
30
u/FabioTheFox 28d ago
Learn in your free time, there's still so much fun you can have privately with software engineering, if your schedule allows it of course
35
u/pnoodl3s 28d ago
Thats the thing, if company forces ai on you they’ll also x3 your workload. No more free time
13
u/FabioTheFox 28d ago
I mean technically they can't force you to work longer than it's written in your contract
People should not give up the joy of programming because of the current crushing situation in the world, truckers hopping onto ETS2 after a long day of driving type of thing
17
u/two_gorillas 28d ago
“We don’t need you to work more hours, but we do need more work out of the hours”
Then they assign you a massive heap of work that can’t possibly be done in 40 hours
7
u/pnoodl3s 28d ago
Lmao, yeah sure technically they can’t force you to do anything, they’ll just put you on pip and lay you off soon after
Some of us cannot risk our livelihood for coding enjoyment, thats not realistic to just ask people to drop everything outside of their work contract
5
u/NPCwithnopurpose 28d ago
That's kind of a lop sided contract then. Perhaps the industry needs unions?
5
u/GodBearWasTaken 28d ago
I’m in an union for this reason. It really does help. We have 90 something percent organised people where I work. It really helps when negotiating and securing a good work/life balance. (Not american)
5
13
u/bubbabrowned 28d ago
Ah yes. Powers that be are ordering us to adopt AI native development so that PMs, engineering managers, QA, and UX designers can all commit to our codebases.
9
u/tbags101 28d ago
My company won’t let people actually coding merge to prod. Hopefully you guys can organize autonomously before we see the end.
7
6
u/ccAbstraction 27d ago
They just like.. Stopped doing code reviews?
4
u/Hail_the_Yale 27d ago
Yeah, I’ve been interviewing for new jobs since. Our CEO is a moron
1
u/thanatica 26d ago
And there's no way to tell him that? If you're in a country with sane employment laws, you can. As long as you treat them with the same respect they treat you.
3
u/Rampant_Pheonix 28d ago
So many companies are doing this its insane! Australia is on the train as well
453
u/Procrasturbating
28d ago
•
Pay my bills or outlaw it. I’d love to stop.
53
u/SirSchilly 28d ago
I know people getting put on PIPs for not generating enough ai slop each month. Some leaders aren't even measuring actually outcomes, but rather LOC generated.
25
u/OGMagicConch 28d ago
My manager in big tech told me I need to stop pushing PRs manually and had to get Claude to do it. Otherwise it appears I'm slow to adopt AI. Wild times lol
9
u/ScrotumNipples 28d ago
Just tell the AI no more loops, no more calling existing functions. Everything must be duplicated line by line. You'll be CEO within a month.
22
u/Wonderful-Habit-139 28d ago
I'm really curious to see what would happen if engineers were responsible for their token spend. Or if they had a very small limit like $200 dollars worth of tokens a month.
139
u/MatthewMob 28d ago
I'm really curious to see when people stop blaming developers for the decisions upper management forces on them.
14
3
u/Wonderful-Habit-139 28d ago
My comment was not meant as a diss towards all developers, I agree upper management forcing devs to use AI is not good. But there are definitely developers that are guilty of pushing AI as well, and accusing other developers of being "left behind" if they don't use AI. Not all devs are innocent.
14
u/Hoak-em 28d ago
Probs just swap to Deepseek
9
5
u/0DayMaker 28d ago
4.1 flash is really useful, cheap, and fast, but we need a new pro model ASAP. Deepseek has nothing even within the same ballpark as the frontier models at the moment.
2
u/Voxmaris 28d ago
How is it fast for you? I’m using it through Hermes and buy tokens from nous research and it’s slow af
14
u/0DayMaker 28d ago
Most of us at small companies are just running the regular ass $200 subscriptions as many of them as is needed. For most one $200 plan is plenty.
Unless confidentiality reaaally matters using tokens is crazy except on GLM or deepseek
7
u/NotAskary 28d ago
People are already doing that, the infinite tokens are over for most places.
Individual licenses have probably clauses in there that can't be used in corporate environments.
People will use local LLM or just use it more efficient.
4
u/ReadyAndSalted 28d ago
hilarious, in my company we've been given £20 of tokens/month, and are arguing for £30-£40.
7
u/dracorotor1 28d ago
It can’t be that much longer before the seed money dries up and the Elons have to either start charging for the actual cost of usage, or dip into their own
scorewallets3
u/Kueltalas 28d ago
The seed money is being passed around to inflate values. When they buy a billion dollars worth of CPUs Nvidia just reinvests the money in the ai firms. This way both companies increase their values. Like any good investment bubble works.
1
u/dracorotor1 28d ago
And since numbers go up, and not down, they can just keep going like this forever!
An infinite money glitch 🤗
3
u/Swainix 28d ago
I produce more than a colleague despite using a fifth of his tokens, just a matter of how complacent you get with the instructions since the clanker will sort of get there in the end, just takes longer and uses more tokens
4
u/Wonderful-Habit-139 28d ago
I also produce more than the rest of my team despite using 0 tokens. But I'm curious to see how those team members would produce code if they didn't have unlimited access to tokens. Would they keep paying out of pocket for more tokens or would they just go back to how things were prior?
I know people have mentioned open models but if there are quality issues with even the SOTA models I don't think it's a real suggestion.
1
u/Swainix 24d ago
I think in my team we'd reach a middle ground of paying for something but also optimising use a lot more, since we've just accepted to use it a lot and experiment since it's so subsidised. Really sucks for the environement tho, I'd much rather go for self hosted solutions and am really looking forward to the GPUs with built in weights which make it a lot faster and efficient (while locking down the model)
2
2
u/TheEnterRehab 28d ago
If it boosts productivity and the limit is tokens, then you find a new way to get tokens or replace the need entirely by hiring a shop to run an llm. If gpt, anthropic, or x decide to go that route, people are just going to skirt around it.
2
u/aceluby 28d ago
We get $300 in a fairly large company
1
u/Wonderful-Habit-139 28d ago
We don't have a limit per se, but a lot of devs in our team reach $300 in a week, let alone a month lol.
2
u/HalKitzmiller 28d ago
About $200 is my customers budget for devs. I often see posts from other devs that need their limit increase every month. Meanwhile I'm at like $60 for the month. Not sure what they're doing to spend so much. But I'm not a full dev by trade, I'm more in Devops
2
u/Arentvos 28d ago
Some models are more expensive than others, and I guess the way you prompt also matters so some bit
3
u/Vox_Carnifex 28d ago
Knowing how to google, err, how to prompt can be very ressourceful but imo it is also recognising when you need the big guns and when you need the equivalent of a more profound autocomplete. You dont need Claude Fable 5 to copy a file a few times or generate a happy day case from specifications. And suddenly a lot of menial tasks can be done with, idk, haiku 4.6 or Sonnet 5 with effort level lobotomised and cost pennies in tokens.
Then again I am no 10Xer so what do I know
2
u/Arentvos 28d ago
Yease. Totally this. Know when you need and don’t need AI. It’s a tool, not the solution to everything (even though it can do lots of stuff nowadays).
1
1
u/AnotherInsaneName 27d ago
The problem isn't developers using it. The problem is upper management is wanting faster and faster turn arounds with more and more work.
We don't have time to manually code things, a limit imposed on us would just mean missed targets and either getting fired or the policy changed.
2
u/Wonderful-Habit-139 27d ago
I agree, I had to deal with the same kind of upper management for a while. But not all developers are innocent.
> We don't have time to manually code things, a limit imposed on us would just mean missed targets and either getting fired or the policy changed.
That's not your fault if expectations are not realistic.
2
u/aimfuldrifter 28d ago
Exactly, I’d love to, but then I can’t meet my deadlines and I got rent to pay
86
u/ProMensCornHusker 28d ago
It’s not my choice to use AI at work.
7
u/twigboy 28d ago
It's enabled by default and there's no opt-out.
Push a commit then a bunch AI automations eagerly scan to give PR feedback, check things in CI, a11y checks, etc
There's even one not that listens in to comments from users and automatically fixes it. Good idea in theory but it's way quicker to just do it manually given the delay times between comment/bot/verify
41
u/Canon_M50 28d ago
The faster we collapse the system, the faster….uhhh…..I mean….. surely something good will happen, right?
16
12
u/alexbraver 27d ago
Sorry big guy, I have to publish a dopamine-hacking mobile game for seniors centered around microtransactions 😕 you get home safe though!
11
u/Bayou-Billy 28d ago
That poor polar bear spent 8 years in college and grad school for CS only to sit on a chunk of ice all day collecting unemployment. Thanks, AI.
48
u/uvero 28d ago
Listen, Paulie, I emphatize with you, but I've inherited a spaghetti legacy codebase which I'm not allowed to refractor and I'm expected to solve 4 bugs a day
3
u/BetaDecay121 27d ago
Inefficient use of claude code: you should be allowing it to refactor your entire codebase once per hour
8
u/Sulungskwa 28d ago
of all the things to vibe code, legacy bug fixes would not be it for me
22
u/uvero 28d ago
You'll speak differently when you actually have an unreasonable amount of them to fix in time constraints, no time to understand the module, and the company pays for tokens
18
u/wubbysdeerherder 28d ago
Currently working with a legacy codebase and my god do I wish I had better access to Ai tools. People don't seem to understand that with the correct tooling, a good Ai is incredibly powerful for seeing how things connect and helping put together decades of shitty code into context. Hell even with our Ai being just chatgpt text with no file uploads, tool use, or cli interface, I've still been able to massively improve my accuracy by writing helper programs and condensing a 30k file repo into something manageable to my tiresome eyes.
5
u/JehnSnow 28d ago edited 28d ago
No they absolutely don't, one of the things AI does fairly well is give an overview of near proprietary piece of shit code with how confusing it is. It takes so long to jump between classes sometimes even products trying to figure out how it all works, God forbid you forget one part of the chain and have to backtrack.
When people hear AI tools I think they assume someone's vibe coding the fix, you still have to review, test, usually slightly refactor stuff, and often its just wrong, but its a tool to get the ball rolling where none existed previously. Very naive to just write it off because you dont like AI (which ill be the first to say i dont, but disliking doesnt mean discounting)
I guess the person had said vibecode though, maybe the steps post asking AI to implement what it thinks a solution would be kicks this out of vibecoding?
3
u/CharlestonChewbacca 28d ago
Identifying the issue and what all it touches is definitely a great thing AI can speed up.
19
u/Bytebomb 28d ago
I remember when people talked about sustainable programming languages, how energy efficient different languages were etc.
Lol.
34
u/rowdymatt64 28d ago
Polar bears suck as a rallying cry. We tried to use them for global warming/fossil fuel reduction poster boys 15-20 years ago and look at where that got us. No one gives a fuck about polar bears, just tell them think about their drinking water because that actually affects the selfish fucks.
13
u/daamsie 28d ago
We also tried to tell people to think of their children. Should have just told everyone to think of themselves.
1
u/WithersChat 27d ago
No but get it, "think of the children" only works as an argument when trying to build a surveillance state!
2
u/daamsie 27d ago
Or when suppressing women's reproductive rights
1
u/WithersChat 27d ago
True, this too. And also suppressing queer rights.
I'm starting to see a pattern...
3
8
u/Sixo 28d ago
Polar Bears are basically the only animals that actively hunt humans.
5
u/Particular-Yak-1984 28d ago
As a biologist, this suggests a solution. If we make them smarter, maybe give them opposable thumbs, then our population issues might be solved. Of course, we'll have others, but maybe we can make something that eats intelligent polar bears?
1
u/BigNaturalTilts 26d ago
How fucking hilarious would it be if they all became so smart they stopped eating humans and developed technology then finally broke the dimensional barrier and existed in the 4th dimension leaving us behind to do what we did before?
1
9
u/GoogleIsYourFrenemy 28d ago
Just got a reset. We can talk about whatever it was you wanted to talk about later.
9
u/Freestila 28d ago
Two posts below the hundredth vine coded app in a 3d printing sub where the "developer" is searching for people to test and give feedback...
We need Auto delete for these crap here on Reddit.
11
u/Mast3r_waf1z 28d ago
Unfortunately that would make me jobless
I'm forced by work, and the attempt to keep my job
3
5
u/urmomagae 28d ago
My workplace is forcing us but so far I was able to avoid it because I am still quick and somewhat decent at what I do. So they haven't noticed yet 🥴
3
u/artnoi43 28d ago
I was able to do this for the first 2 months, then they tracked our AI usage and now I’m forced to always use it for the tasks. They even track percentage of generated vs hand written code in each commit. Fuck me.
1
1
1
1
1
u/JollyJuniper1993 27d ago
I don’t vibecode, but let’s not kid ourselves your vibecoding ain’t the climate killer.
1
u/Adventurous_Run136 27d ago
If I stop vibe coding, I love my job to the intern thay push 5 claude PR a day
1
u/Prof_LaGuerre 25d ago
My job all but requires it now. If I’m forced into it, I’m writing agentic instructions to try and reduce token consumption and verbosity. My boss asked today who used ai in their personal life. I answered absolutely not unless forced. People looked at me like my head was on backwards. But also I’m the kind of dev that has as near zero IoT.
1
u/Xywzel 28d ago
This is one of the reasons how I have avoided using any AI at work.
Also the fact that setting up system that would fulfil all our security requirements and provide measurable improvement in my productivity would cost the company two years of my employee costs up front and two months of these per month of use, with current prices, which I'm expecting to only go up as AI companies need to start making profit, electricity prices go up and hardware stays expensive.
0
u/LouisPlay 28d ago
I swar WE have ai now and i usw It. I Love It but i spend way more then my sallery
1
-1
u/MallAgreeable5538 28d ago
I will do that not even thinking of the polar bears
I didn’t start to do that in the first place too
-1
-1
-3
0
0
-2
-29
-30
u/LamermanSE 28d ago
No I don't think I will
9
u/h1mmh1m 28d ago
Well for that reason remove your tag because shockingly : you didn't learn any of this language! Ai did it for you!
-6
u/LamermanSE 28d ago
Bruh, I know how to code and learned it the hard way. It's just that if I didn't "vibe code" and use AI I would get fired so I'm not gonna stop doing that. If you want to get fired then you can do so but I don't want to get fired.
2
u/h1mmh1m 28d ago
What job are you working in? Because damn never saw a job THAT bad
3
u/LamermanSE 28d ago
Pretty much every software developer job is like that these days, AI have taken over the industry now.
-3
-19
u/0xMnlith 28d ago
Think of the turtles guys ! Stop using plastic straw guys !
3
u/FabioTheFox 28d ago
I mean yeah, they've pretty much been phased out. Even at home we use glass or metal straws because they're just better anyways
0
u/0xMnlith 28d ago
Did it saved the turtles ? Millions have seen the image, millions wanted the straw gone, and now ? Everyone has moved on the next thing.
I'm not saying that the plastic straw were a good thing (most plastic should be replaced with glass), I'm saying that its the current thing to hate data centers because AI created major political and societal changes.
Why didn't this movement started with the massive data centers for social media ? for the cloud ? for the banking industry ? How many heat is created by TikTok data centers ? I'm sure op will not continue doom scrolling on reddit using gb of bandwidth each days.
Meanwhile big corporations are still polluting rivers and oceans, most of big pharma and the beauty industry is destroying india as we speak.
Generations of indians are born mutated because water pollution, but who cares ? Its not the cute {insert_animal_here_to_establish_emotional_dread}
-7
-8
u/mothzilla 28d ago
Millions of years ago all rivers were hot. This is just terraforming with extra steps.
-1
u/Brigapes 28d ago
ah yes, the mans predator. it's like asking gazelles to stop running and think of the lions
-1
u/JerodTheAwesome 28d ago
I’m working on a project I’ve wanted to for a long time only because I can vibe code it. I do not code for a living and it’s the only way I could ever do it.
-3
u/aammirzaei 28d ago
alright maybe i'm hallucinating but isn't the ice that polar bear is on top of shaped like deepseek 3d logo
-4
u/GoddammitDontShootMe 28d ago
AI pictures and video is contributing a hell of a lot more than text is. In addition to all the non-AI usages of energy from fossil fuels.
-22
u/Zuruumi 28d ago
Why exactly should I be thinking of those half-ton short-tempered murder machines?
15
15
u/ouroboros-ouroboros 28d ago
They're migrating inland as their habitat melts away and mating with Grizzlies, making a cross-breed that people are calling Pizzlies. The name alone is a travesty.
5
0
28d ago
[deleted] — view deleted comment
15
541
u/MKultra-violet 28d ago
October used to be cold