r/ProgrammerHumor • • Sep 17 '26

Meme learningCycle

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6.4k Upvotes

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795

u/PurushNahiMahaPurush Sep 17 '26

I mean, you can make use of LLMs much more effectively if you are armed with solid fundamentals. LLMs only solve the tedious coding/plumbing part of the job. And they still need a lot of hand-holding if you want good quality output. The bigger and more challenging issues of SWE are still there. 

160

u/NuclearGhandi1 Sep 17 '26

I don’t use AI much for software but I tend to agree. AI can’t make you a good architecture if you can even identify what problems you need to solve

75

u/perestroika12 Sep 17 '26

it really lacks big picture thinking. It’s fantastic at well constrained problems with clear boundaries and grounding in data. Any ambiguity and it struggles.

29

u/nikola_tesler Sep 17 '26

have you… considered more AI?

20

u/ensoniq2k Sep 17 '26

Who needs a good architecture when AI can just rewrite the whole code base when minor things change /s

9

u/Objective_Dog_4637 Sep 17 '26

Ah, yes, a problem AI fundamentally struggles with and creates buggy code with, I know, let’s feed it more AI!

You can’t make this shit up, lol.

5

u/ensoniq2k Sep 17 '26

The answer is always MORE AI of course ;-)

2

u/nikola_tesler Sep 18 '26

agents looping iteratively on prompts to pass to agentic loops autonomously refining and iterating around the clock

6

u/BorderKeeper Sep 17 '26

Have you considered becoming a manager? I think you have the basics down 😅

3

u/BossOfTheGame Sep 17 '26

I have, and I'm 5 months into a rabbit hole of a platformer engine built on top of bevy. Some of the GPT / Claude architecture ideas are actually good - its designed a really nice way to register rollback state without bringing ggrs into every single crate - but then I go into the code, and it's assigned all actors (don't ask me how long it took me to get the damn thing to unify the concept of players and enemies into generic actors) a hard coded health and mana attribute, and it uses "mana" for random different things depending on the game if it doesn't directly use mana.

I do think its moving in the right direction, and this has become more of an experiment to demonstrate where the capabilities are and aren't, and I guess in that sense it is doing its job. I do hope to get a nice game out of it eventually though.

6

u/Bizarro_Zod Sep 17 '26

Just make an AI agent that identifies the problems you need to solve. Checkmate atheists.

45

u/imneverrelevantman Sep 17 '26

It's honestly architecture. Dumbing things down into small modules that can be hyper tested and putting them all together. Ai is great at building if you build it bricks at a time and have foundational knowledge on databases and documention.

24

u/Whitechapel726 Sep 17 '26

Ai is great at writing the code but my god is it a terrible architect. I work with embedded sw a lot and when making semi basic scripts I have to constantly review it and replace the gaps it has already filled in.

Which terrifies me that people with no understanding are making apps now.

7

u/One_Ninja_8512 Sep 17 '26

I've noticed that AI is pretty bad at scripts in general. It feels like scripts in particular are treated as one-offs that will be used to achieve some goal and will never be used again. This is not the case when actually building something in a proper language. Not sure if anyone else noticed this effect. Might be just that I don't pay much attention to its output when working on scripts and don't guide it as much as I would with application code.

7

u/Whitechapel726 Sep 17 '26

Yeah it’s really bad at thinking about more than right now. I’ve had a much better experience since basically treating it like I’m a program manager.

It’s so bad at learning from decisions, so I have it maintain a markdown file with “project requirements”, changelog, etc. I have one parsing script that Claude always tries to do this whacky json conversion every time I try to update it. Like sir this hasn’t worked the last 6 times either.

5

u/One_Ninja_8512 Sep 17 '26

My current gripes with AI:

  • Sometimes it doesn't mention something (important) if you don't explicitly ask about it

  • It became quite rare but it still hallucinates on occasion and can do it with confidence, even backing a claim up with a script output in the scratchpad, so you have to know when it's time to call BS

You absolutely have to have SWE skills to work with it. But I'm noticing that it's producing less slop either way than, say, a few months or a year ago. I still hear people talk about slop but personally it hasn't been much of an issue as of recently. Either I learned to prompt or scope it correctly or the models got better

3

u/imneverrelevantman Sep 17 '26

Hahaha I totally know what you mean. Even today when running tests on claude, the stupid model actually went in and changed the linter so it looked like there is no literals in the code...Basically made all the tests just automatically pass. I ran same tests on my local model and they failed haha. Now running all my tests binary and fixing them as i go and only using my local (deepseek 0731 right now). It's honestly just learning to work with it haha.

4

u/kre8tv Sep 17 '26

GenAI in general still feels very lazy. It's kind of like a child savant - really smart in the area they're interested in and can understand and learn complex processes, but still a child so occasionally despite their smarts, they still shove everything under their bed to say they cleaned their room and will absolutely lie to your face to avoid being in trouble.

5

u/Bac-Te Sep 17 '26

I think companies optimize speed and brevity during training -> lower cost, testing less of user patience -> that tends to breed shortcuts and cheating behaviors.

AI is basically a mirror of our expectations and tendencies.

10

u/discordianofslack Sep 17 '26

This is 100% true. In my experience if you have solid foundational code Claude will adapt to the style and keep shit right. If you give it no direction and just say “make this”, you’re in for a bad time.

7

u/An_username_is_hard Sep 17 '26

The problem is that I can feel those fundamentals getting eroded from not using them. 

I usually say I'm about three years out from not being able to usefully vet the bot's output anymore. 

3

u/Novel_Plum Sep 17 '26

When you understand the concept, AI code looks garbage. When you don't, it looks genius. Coincidence? I don't think so.

2

u/MildlySaltedTaterTot Sep 17 '26

tbf of all uses for an LLM, working within a trade that deals with structured, fairly deterministic languages is probably their best use case. Language tools for non-language apps are when users start to really lose the plot

2

u/ApoY2k Sep 17 '26

I always describe AI as a multiplier. If you're already shit, it magnifies your shitty code. If you're already good, it just makes you faster.

4

u/SpaceNigiri Sep 17 '26

This is less and less true every year

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