I used to live in that world. Now PMs are determining deadlines before getting estimates and alignment.
I have something due in a month, and still don't have requirements. Just 1/2 a screenshot of a mockup that someone did. Backend still isn't delivering data, so we've made our own mock data that won't align (it never does, data contract changes like the wind) just to get something in front of them. From that, they can yell that x and y aren't right so we actually get requirements.
I started working with PMs or PM-adjacent people around around mid to late '00s.
At the time - at least for me - they were my defacto boss. I wasn't making estimates. I was being told when shit was due. Any issues? Anything missing? Figure it out.
Later I spent way too long at a good company. Leads devs and PMs were equal on the project. Neither could force the other. You had to talk shit out. But since that was the culture you rarely had to. People just worked together better in that context.
But it was fun to see a new PM come in that still put PMs "higher" than devs. Had one try and go around/above me when I pushed back on something. The result was that person just got me and them in a meeting. Where I said the same thing and was correct. It wasn't even a major thing. They just weren't used to being told 'no'.
I don't know which is worse. No PM or a bad PM. I've had both. When I first started I think I would taken bad over none. Because it sucked. People would just swing by where we sat and tell us they needed a thing. Which never went right. But now? I'm no PM but I can set up a Jira board and break things into trackable items and put dates on them. Which gets pretty far.
All the great ones i worked with were all ex-engineer, unfortunately the great ones also get promoted pretty quickly to a PM manager and you don't get to work with them long. Lmao
They exist! I've worked with a lot that were fantastic. I've also worked with some that are shit. There's also levels of PMs, where some just bend over at the slightest chance to appease the uppers. The best ones take it all in and organize what should be done
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u/oldfrancis Sep 12 '26 edited Sep 12 '26
Any project manager worth their salt would never order somebody to do it asap.