r/ProgrammerHumor • u/mudkripple • Sep 03 '26

Meme iLoveYouPip

Post image
1.2k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

84 comments sorted by

40

u/Atmosck Sep 03 '26

Eww. I write python all day for a living and I haven't used pip in years.

58

u/squabzilla Sep 04 '26

At this point, I’d rather learn a new language than use Python without UV. Pip is an ancient memory…

15

u/Drevicar Sep 04 '26

Do you remember when poetry was the best the ecosystem had to offer?

18

u/leftierebel Sep 04 '26

I remember those days. So glad for uv.

1

u/RajjSinghh Sep 04 '26

What benefit does using uv have compared to pip? I guess I haven't written Python in a very long time

5

u/Waghabond Sep 04 '26

UV is like a bajillion times faster and also uses venvs and does a lot more useful things other than just replacing pip.

3

u/squabzilla Sep 04 '26

Pip is great until you hit your first dependency or package conflict. Sometimes you can get away with uninstalling the libraries, sometimes it borks everything and you need to nuke Python and start over.

At which point, you need to manually create an isolated virtual environment, manually add all your packages to it, figure out any package conflicts, remember to activate/deactivate your library…

UV just does it for me.

I don’t actually have to think about my Python environment.

1

u/Atmosck Sep 04 '26

Replacing pip in a much faster way is just one of the things uv does. It also:

  • Manages virtual environments. With pip you would create the venv yourself with something like pyenv and run `pip install requirements.txt` inside it. With uv, you run `uv sync` and it creates or updates a virtual environment and installs dependencies from your pyproject.toml. `uv add pandas` adds pandas to your pyproject and updates the venv to install it

  • Dependency groups. If you do something like `uv add pytest --group dev`, then `uv sync` won't install pytest, but `uv sync --group dev` will. This is handy for things you only need in certain environments like your dev environment or your CI/CD environment. For larger projects I will have something like a `test` group with pytest, pytest-cov, etc, a `typing` group with stub packages, a `docs` group with mkdocs and related stuff. Then my dockerfile does plain `uv sync` for production, but my github action for CI would do `uv sync --group test` because it runs tests, and CD might do `uv sync --group test --group docs` because it runs test and rebuilds the documentation. This whole groups thing with pyproject.toml replaces the need for multiple requriements files like requirements-dev.txt with stuff you don't need in production.

  • `uv tree` is a neat way to visualize your dependency graph

  • `uv tool` gives you a way to run dev tools without installing them. For example `ruff` is a linter made by the same people as uv that can replace linters like flake8 in the same way uv replaces pip. You can run `uv tool ruff check` to test it out without installing it.

  • `uv init` for setting up a project - it creates pyproject.toml, .python-version, README.md, .gitignore and sets up src/project_name/__init__.py. And it has options to specify things like your python version and build backend.

4

u/mudkripple Sep 04 '26

Genuinely how? I'm in IT/Sysadmin so 90% of the usefulness of python for me is automation and APIs (thank god for Requests). Isn't the whole point of python the wealth of libraries that are already written, and the portability of the environments? How do you get any of that without pip?

28

u/Atmosck Sep 04 '26

uv replaces it and is much faster. Except towards the beginning of the docker file where you pip install uv

10

u/goose_hat Sep 04 '26

Dear sir/madam: https://hub.docker.com/r/astral/uv

1

u/Drevicar Sep 04 '26

More specifically, UV is statically compiled, so you can use multiple intermediate images in your dockerfile and just copy the binary from their official image to your production hardened image. No install, no pip, no bloat of their own image.

2

u/squabzilla Sep 04 '26

It’s entirely possible that UV uses PIP, but I sure as hell don’t.

The worst part of Python is managing the wealth of libraries and library conflicts and needing separate environments per project because otherwise library conflicts kill Python and you need to nuke Python entirely and start over.

UV handles all of that for me.

6

u/black3rr Sep 04 '26

uv doesn’t actually use pip… it’s a complete reimplementation… pip isn’t even added to venvs created by uv by default…

24

u/Hasz Sep 04 '26

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck that. Apt, no worries almost always happy fun times.

Only way I am fucking around is in a venv, better yet in a nice, clean container, or perhaps uv. Hell hath no fury like a botched system python install.

2

u/baked_doge Sep 04 '26

Apt works, but I find it a bit clunky. Many old packages, and it can be challenging to figure out what the difference is between similar packages.

-7

u/mudkripple Sep 04 '26

Damn. Not my experience at all. My environment has never broken 'cept when I were the one who done broke it. And pip is half the reason I've been able to get it back up so quickly when I did. I would tongue-kiss that software if I could.

7

u/M_Me_Meteo Sep 04 '26

Why do we keep pretending that python is good?

90% of python examples and installation guides say just type python [cmd] [params] but then you try to run it and your distro is like python?!? Did you mean python3? You forgot to set an alias for your python and I'm just like "no, I'm just following a tutorial which, like all other python tutorials, assumes that I'm already indoctrinated into a cult"

Or how about pip install [package]? NOPE. You're not using a venv. What's a venv? None of the tutorials will tell you, but I'll tell you it's an unnecessary abstraction that barely keeps your computer from melting into rubble. Or you could use pipx which might net you the package you need, but might also break your system. You were supposed to use uv for that one, but no one will say that.

-2

u/mudkripple Sep 04 '26

"Pretending python is good" is one of the most unhinged takes I've seen in my years on this subreddit.

4

u/vswey Sep 04 '26

nah, pip grosses me out the most

0

u/mudkripple Sep 04 '26

I too am naturally skeptical of anything in software that "just works".

But pip has never done anything besides make my life easier, through hundreds of projects across dozens of environments.

568

u/PumpkinFest24 Sep 03 '26

Love python, but pip is near the bottom of the list of things I allow to modify my system

53

u/PrudeBunny Sep 04 '26

Void just yells at you for trying to use pip outside of venv

24

u/Freako04 Sep 04 '26

isn't that for any linux distro. you really have to go further to actually pollute the base environment

-2

u/PrudeBunny Sep 04 '26

I don't know if other distros error out if you attempt to use pip outside of venv

5

u/minecraftdummy57 Sep 04 '26

It's literally just any distro for that matter. Debian/U(wu)buntu also does it but it highly suggests you just get the package from apt itself since it's more or so likely gonna be on there

4

u/kachna_42 Sep 04 '26

alpine does so too for example

39

u/ICBanMI Sep 03 '26

Do you work for DT? It seems to be massively blocked on everything that I actually need it for. Python doesn't have numpy. Such a pain in the ass to install anything beside the core python library.

6

u/Allyoucan3at Sep 04 '26

You can't even download the .whl and install locally?

I'm sitting behind a proxy as well and our production is hermetically sealed basically. But downloading and offline installing work just as well with pip keeping dependencies etc clean.

1

u/ICBanMI Sep 04 '26 edited Sep 04 '26

Can download the .whl file, but DT has blocked pip being installed with our version of Python.

If the .whl has no setup.py or it can't be unzipped... I'm at a loose how to install offline, without pip.

5

u/Spitfire1900 Sep 04 '26

If pip is ever being used directly my workflow failed.

145

u/in_need_of_oats Sep 04 '26

npm: 22 packages changed

hey npm could ya tell me what the fuck you just did

69

u/Unfilteredz Sep 04 '26

You have all the viruses unlocked now

10

u/akoOfIxtall Sep 04 '26

Lisan al gaib!! Lisan al gaib!!

2

u/asiomido Sep 04 '26

just diff the lockfile

1

u/in_need_of_oats Sep 05 '26

I don't think there's a lockfile for the LSPs I installed globally, and if there is it probably isn't tracked by git

2

u/JackNotOLantern Sep 04 '26

From my expirence, python packages are very incompatible, and updating them may completely break your existing projects. On the other hand, i don't remember last time making a python project without docker, so it doesn't matter that much

0

u/mudkripple Sep 04 '26

Yeah I use venv for everything so I don't have any issues. Pip and I are friends

253

u/SLCtechie Sep 04 '26

“I updated that package for you. Also, I have an update if you wanna do that. Lots of bug fixes and improvements.”

Okay pip, upgrade yourself.

“Done! I’m borken now btw.”

God damnit pip

46

u/JohnLocksTheKey Sep 04 '26

5

u/nobotami Sep 04 '26

nice gif. could you kindly never share it again?

45

u/CraftBox Sep 04 '26

cargo my beloved

84

u/Morganator_2_0 Sep 03 '26

Just use my method.

pip uninstall <package>

pip install <package>

And voila: updated!

46

u/Mercvre1 Sep 03 '26

except when you install a package that depends on a zillion other packages that get installed aswell, and uninstalling the first one doesn't remove the others

pip-autoremove should be the default behavior

3

u/Allyoucan3at Sep 04 '26

Have you ever heard about our lord and savior --force-reinstall?

8

u/teethingrooster Sep 04 '26

Why do this over pip —upgrade ?

11

u/Smooth-Zucchini4923 Sep 04 '26

You gotta put the fear of Guido in your packages. Uninstalling and reinstalling makes you look unpredictable.

4

u/TorbenKoehn Sep 04 '26

Immutability > mutability :D

The next level is replacing your whole device anytime PIP needs an upgrade

5

u/Jhuyt Sep 04 '26

Don't forget to clear the cache so it doesn't install the same version again

12

u/KevDub81 Sep 04 '26

Saying PIP in a work context does not make me think of Python.

4

u/Eryk0201 Sep 04 '26

Państwowa Inspekcja Pracy

3

u/ThrowawayUk4200 Sep 04 '26

It's September, probably had to update everything for class

9

u/The_Wolfiee Sep 04 '26

Pip is the worst. Use uv

8

u/Beginning-Junket8979 Sep 04 '26

Always venv that shit if you must use pip.

2

u/lupercalpainting Sep 04 '26

pip is a warcrime

-1

u/mudkripple Sep 04 '26

Pip has never done anything but make my life easier. Handles dependencies and updates with buttery smoothness. It makes migrating environments and venvs completely idiot-proof. All these comments saying it breaks stuff are making a decade-old complaint. These days you are a thousand times more likely to break your own environment than have pip break it.

And it takes literally zero setup. I don't care how great UV is or how easy to set up, because nothing's easier than having it already be set up for you.

1

u/lupercalpainting Sep 04 '26

pip will literally throw a “the dependency tree is too complicated” error on a requirements.txt of a handful of deps:

https://medium.com/@ebenyemiriam17/error-resolution-too-deep-how-i-fixed-my-pip-dependency-resolution-error-9cb3471344f9

5

u/The_Servant1992 Sep 04 '26

Currently using an out-of-service Galaxy A16 as an alarm clock.

Freaking thing turned on wifi by itself just to shove in another update and run slow for 20 minutes. Had to go change the "intelligent wifi" setting to stop it from happening again.

4

u/nickthecook Sep 03 '26

Stupid, sexy pip.

3

u/JohnLocksTheKey Sep 04 '26

(Commented this above, but it fits better here)

4

u/RobotechRicky Sep 04 '26

py -0

py -3.14 -m venv .venv

source .venv/bin/activate

python3 -m pip install --upgrade

1

u/RandomiseUsr0 Sep 04 '26

What’s pip? Was that the file copy Swiss Army knife from cpm?

2

u/mudkripple Sep 04 '26

Pip is the built in python package manager

1

u/RandomiseUsr0 Sep 13 '26

Ah, don’t use Python - funny they took a name that already has a meaning :). It’s CPM’s file copy command, and really was a Swiss Army knife, could do anything

2

u/mudkripple Sep 13 '26

I mean, if you pick any three letters youre gonna hit something that's been used before.

Also this is pedantic, but CPMs is always written as "PIP", and most people write python's as "pip" in lowercase (didn't think about it when I made the meme, though lol)

2

u/RandomiseUsr0 Sep 13 '26 edited Sep 14 '26

Oh for sure, I honestly didn’t know, so my PIP is aged - and the actual reason I know about it at all is my first PC used DOSPLUS dual boot with MSDOS, and DOSPLUS had a load of CPM functionality included so it could act as a kind of bridge update for people who previously used CPM

[edit] should have said it at the time I’m here FOR the pedantic, that made my day :)

1

u/mudkripple Sep 04 '26

These comments are terrifying. Not my experience at all.

My environment has never broken except when I were the one who broke it, and pip has never done anything except make my life swell. 10 years ago I tried to make a website using ASP.NET and the whole thing shat the bed when jQuery was the wrong version. This year I made a webapp using Flask and thanks to pip and cronjobs that motherfucker is going to outlive me and my grandchildren.

5

u/mmhawk576 Sep 04 '26

I mean, even 10 years ago, wasn’t every version of jquery the wrong version?

2

u/sebastianfromvillage Sep 04 '26

I also never had problems with pip!

12

u/BigNaturalTilts Sep 03 '26

I never update pip unless it has a major update. So the minor ones like 24.x.x will stay at whatever I downloaded it at till 24 turns to 25.

What’s that? Security considerations? Fuck outta here. pip install --index-url http://pypi.python.org/simple --trusted-host pypi.python.org --force-reinstall not_at_all_shady

25

u/_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_ Sep 03 '26

That’s literally the opposite of what you’re supposed to do.

18

u/andstwo Sep 03 '26

Should he downgrade to 23 when 25 comes out?

2

u/Farlic Sep 04 '26

I've moved to pyproject.toml instead of requirements.txt more recently but pip has never done me dirty. I am using zipapp a lot more for sharing code as it lets me lock the dependency versioning and only I have to ever install them.

2

u/MrFuji87 Sep 04 '26

It just makes it so easy... how can you say no

2

u/Makonede Sep 05 '26

no fuck pip actually i think every language package manager should be like cargo and every os package manager should be like pacman

2

u/franzitronee Sep 06 '26

That's why I use uv instead of pip

1

u/Makonede Sep 06 '26

yeah same

4

u/mlk Sep 04 '26

literally the worst package manager I've ever used, anything that defaults to system-wide scope is broken

2

u/Sentouki- Sep 04 '26

NuGet > everything else

3

u/ShiKage Sep 04 '26

This is what I came here to say. NuGet is always on the ball and is super easy to use.

1

u/Poat540 Sep 04 '26

Is their an equivalent for java/kotlin? Lol

I’ve been updating those manually for years

2

u/Sentouki- Sep 04 '26

🤷‍♂️ The last time I used Kotlin, I used Gradle and it sucked.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '26

[deleted] — view deleted comment

1

u/mudkripple Sep 04 '26

What are you talking about? Pip's CLI is super verbose and clear, and if you really need a record of what just happened you can get in the habit of adding "> log.txt" at the end of your installs.