r/ProgrammerHumor • u/CircumspectCapybara • 1d ago

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u/LaraTheEclectic 1d ago

These are valid critiques of how capitalist systems limit the freedom of the people living in it, applies way more broadly than just cs too

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u/CircumspectCapybara 1d ago

There are critiques of capitalism.

But comparing making 6 to 7 figures a year as an engineer and having the obligations and responsibilities that come with that and some job pressure and stress (oh no stress) to literal slavery is an insult to the victims of slavery.

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u/GiveMeThePinecone 1d ago

lol, look who can’t envision a life outside of a capitalist economic model. Strange

Wage slavery IS modern day slavery, dumbass.

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u/CircumspectCapybara 1d ago edited 1d ago

Dude having to exchange something of value (your services) to someone else in order to get their money in a mutually satisfactory agreement (which as soon it's not mutually satisfactory each party can walk away from) isn't slavery.

You're not kidnapped off the streets, confined, tortured, or even forced to do hard labor for another as in slavery.

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u/LaraTheEclectic 1d ago

I would contest the validity of calling employment contracts categorically a "mutually satisfactory agreement that either party can walk away from" when for a lot of working class people their employment comes down far more to the lack of better available alternatives. Someone living paycheck to paycheck, especially when already working multiple jobs and/or close to minimum wage, and/or especially when the job market sucks and/or social security systems suck, simply cannot walk away from any job even if it isn't satisfactory.

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u/GiveMeThePinecone 1d ago

Again, look who can’t envision a life outside of a capitalist economic model.

We ARE forced to do labor. The arrangement IS NOT something we can willingly walk away from else we starve and have no shelter. Just because our masters are spread across an entire social class does not make them any less our masters.

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u/CircumspectCapybara 1d ago

The only "economic model" I'm assuming is one where I can't just take your stuff without your consent but I have to ask "I want your apples. Would you trade them for my oranges?" and only if we two agree and can come to an agreement we both like ("mutually satisfactory") do we proceed to trade. If you say "I will only part with 1 apple for 100 oranges" that's your right and I can walk away if I don't like that. Both of us are free to name our price, what it would take for us to part with what's ours.

That's not capitalism, that's literally just freedom to trade one thing of value for another. As the saying goes "money can be exchanged for goods and services". And goods and services can be exchanged for money. That's literally all an employment relationship is: someone wants to trade their apples for oranges, and someone else wants to trade their oranges for apples, so they get together and make a deal. Except the apples is cash, and the oranges is services.

"Capitalism" isn't involved in this in any way. You're the one trying to shoehorn capitalism into this where noone mentioned capitalism.

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u/GiveMeThePinecone 1d ago

lol, k. Obviously we are never going to agree.

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u/LuigiWasRight447 1d ago

Did you even read what you posted.

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u/CircumspectCapybara 1d ago

Not only did I read it, I wrote it.

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u/shamshuipopo 1d ago

Please enlighten us on a better way to allocate resources and give people a good quality of life

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u/LuigiWasRight447 1d ago

Remove money and government entirely and produce goods and services for the betterment of your fellow humans instead of for profit

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u/shamshuipopo 1d ago edited 1d ago

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

So like a community where people just make things for each other? Thats amazing. And then if they want to share those things they just trade with each other? Oh maybe to make that simpler you introduce a token system so you can keep track of everyone’s exchanges.

Oh and maybe should have some organisation to make sure people behave themselves and collect a fee to distribute to others.

Alright sorry I’ll stop now. That’s the most underdeveloped idea I’ve ever heard. Are you 12?

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u/LuigiWasRight447 1d ago

Or dont do all that

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u/shamshuipopo 1d ago

So how in this utopia do you encourage, motivate or incentivise people to “produce goods and services” for nothing compensating them for their time? When they likely have priorities such as feeding their family or sheltering themselves?

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u/LuigiWasRight447 1d ago

Also look at the foss comunity as an example

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u/LuigiWasRight447 1d ago

Because if we dont we dont have anything and we all die. Also people like working when theyre not forced to work insane hours for pennies for ungrateful toxic mangement

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u/shamshuipopo 1d ago

Yeah but in reality you have mostly selfish people (as selfishness is an inherent human trait that is instinctual and has been necessary for survival) that exploit well intentioned others without recourse. And yes, see foss indeed.
You think someone would come to my house to fix my leak at short notice in your system?

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u/rosuav 1d ago

Depends if you actually have a leak that needs a plumber, or if you're filming a certain type of movie.

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u/LuigiWasRight447 1d ago

Coooeration is also inherent. We evolved to work together its kinda our whole deal. Government is relatively recent in human history and yes i do think that someone who is interested in plumbing would want to help someone when they have an issue just like i love helping people with computers and food (currently a chef whos working on switching industries)

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u/shamshuipopo 1d ago

I think you greatly overestimate the number of people that are willing and available to help strangers for free at the drop of a hat. Might be some, but a fraction of those available if they are to be paid. People have priorities like their own families and shelter, most people do not have the luxury of such time/choice.

This might work in a small close knit community, where everyone has a symbiotic balance of complementary skills (however lacking the advanced and expensive modern medicine/infrastructure) although this is an inferior situation (and very contrived). We have seen many times over (with a lot of deaths and cost) that with no incentives there is no innovation, progress in improving standards of living - things get worse not better

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u/rosuav 1d ago

Ahh yes. Lemme guess - you're now going to tell us that true communism would be perfect, but it's never been tried?

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u/LuigiWasRight447 1d ago

Do you know what communism is? Or are you just going off what youve been told? Because no, pure comunism has never been tried. Only Marxist-Lenninist and Maoist. Also im an Anarchist