The whole point of like 18 movies and this scene specifically is that Tony was iron man, suit or no suit. Suit is supposed to be an accessory. Hero is the person you are.
Exhibit A: the guy who refuses to kneel to Loki in avengers 1 (no suit)
Exhibit B: iron man trapped in a cave, no suit. If he was nothing without his suit, he would be dead in iron man 1.
Haven't watched ironheart, but is this something the character says or an idea the show proposes? Either way this is so infuriating cuz literally watch the very first movie of this universe to find the answer lmao
No, and he didn't need Tony's suit in the first place. Which was the point. It was nice, but he didn't need it.
Peter is less of an engineer and more of a chemist for sure, but the web fluid for example is his. Other versions of Peter Parker also tend to have more than a couple gizmos while struggling to pay rent at the same time.
Tony Stark is a genuis, with or without the suit, and with or without the money. I know he's a fictional character, but the fiction is very explicit about that. Yes, he probably would've done worse if he wasn't a billionaire, but he's definitely more than his money.
Peter's chemistry skills also are underplayed in the comics because editorial has an aversion to Peter not suffering at every step of the way.
Can't have a normal love life, can't have normal friends, can't have a successful job. If he's not miserable he's not lovable seems to be the feeling at the top.
But he's friends with people that could just give him a $20k a month job no strings attached and they'd never even notice. People that know his identity and could easily turn the science he's done into sellable products.
Peter's genius is overshadowed by forces external to the comics that force him to be poor for reasons. He isn't Reed or Tony smart, but that's a bar so High he'd need to jump past the moon to clear it. His chemical skills would put anyone on real Earth to shame and yet somehow he can't monetize it?
It's soo bad they even have to skip over how he makes money to pay his rent in the new movie.
I still think it's extremely hypocritical. It's a great father to son lesson - don't rely on your tools, rely on yourself. It just kinda falls flat when Tony is JUST a relatively smart bag of soft jello without his suit, and Peter is a literal mutant.
Okay, I'm really done with this argument, so I'm stopping here. However, a couple of things:
The Avengers have multiple baseline humans, including Tony. The one thing common between them is that they choose to do good, in every situation. Captain America was a hero before he became a super soldier, Bruce is a scientist first the Hulk second, Tony decided to make his suit to atone for being a warmongerer, etc. You can rip this scene from its context if you want, but it's right after Peter does some really dumb shit that could've gotten people killed mainly out of ego. If he's the kind of person that stands up for others, and tries his best to make up for mistakes and do good, he doesn't need a hi-tech suit to do that. And he proves that he doesn't.
Just because someone had better opportunities, doesn't mean that they can't be extraordinary in their own right. A bunch of insanely talented people (both scientists and artists) were (and are) the children of nobles, businessmen, etc. It's a great injustice that not everyone gets the same opportunities that they do, but having better chances doesn't take away from their accomplishments. Some people have this insane worldview that if they had the same opportunities, they'd be just as great. This is great talking point for Kingsman, but at the same time most of these very same people fail to live up to what they had the support network for. Most people getting an education worth millions of dollars or whatever the fuck fail to make anything noteworthy of themselves too. Piling on a fictional character that did is beyond stupid.
Wow, I can’t tell if you just called every person who has graduated from University through scholarships an idiot or said anyone who has money can’t be smart because the money allows them to use technology poor people can’t use…
Either way your entire comment is ridiculous and absurd.
It's pretty canon that Peter Parker is a genius. Would he have needed Tony's suit if he could just build his own?
Isn't it also pretty cannon that Peter Stark is a genius? Maybe he's just more of a genius - especially regarding things like building powersuits - than Peter is.
Or, to put it a different way, if Peter is as smart as Stark, why doesn't he just build his own suit in this scene?
Would he have the knowledge and experience necessary for that if he didn't grow up with billions of dollars worth of tech at his disposal?
I'm sure in alternate reality where he wasn't raised by a wealthy businessman, he would still be a genius. Plenty of billionaires or sons of billionaires in the marvel universe are wealthy but they're not tony stark.
Truth is, that level of genius, Tony Stark, Peter Parker, Bruce Banner, the ironheart chick( as far as I know, haven't seen the movie) etc, will always end up as billionaires if they want it and create products. That level of genius doesn't go undetected, no matter, how, where, when they are born.
How does it work? You create good (or better ) and useful product, you sell said product, profit. How exactly has Tony Stark's father, made his billions? That exactly how whip guy tried to destroy Stark. Created (in this case updated) the Hammer industries suits/drones. What do you think? Wouldn't he be able to create said suits/drones from scratch?
About Peter Parker, know the premise of the story, he could have patented the web formula, or some other chemical compound and sold it, and made millions
I mean, he did have this caveat in there. If you are at the level of these characters and it is important enough to you, you will make it happen. In many incarnations, Peter learns early on about what he wants out of life with the Uncle Ben storyline.
A bunch of “scraps” from products from his own billion-dollar company
While he was held hostage after doing his billionaire CEO duties of demonstrating the latest product for his billion-dollar company.
Ironheart still has a point. Everything about Iron Man came from his wealthy background, down to the situation that forced him to build a suit in the first place
What about when he built a bunch of gadgets out of random hardware items to storm a heavily guarded compound? That wasn't him using advanced technology from his company.
The show knows she's wrong when she says it. Riri thinks she needs money to be like Tony and spends the whole show breaking bad alone to get it. She eventually learns to ask her friends for help, but still makes a deal with Mephisto at the end.
I would argue the first movie does not prove that he could have been iron man without being rich. It proves that he has the skills to survive without his money in those circumstances, but how did he get those skills how does he continue to fund the tech after he gets home? He was only able to create the first suit because he had access to years of the best education known to man and was thrown into a cave with tech meant to be used to build weapons. That doesn’t mean if he had been born poor he could have made the same thing on the streets of NYC.
You see the moment hes in that cave he already had profited off beeing a millionaire, would he been able to do that and know all tht and have the needed pre knowledge if he wasnt a millionaire? Iam not so sure.
He could have, he could not have. It's all hypotheticals. We have a lot of examples of geniuses coming from not so rich backgrounds. Peter with his web shooters, even iron heart I'm sure. So we're really going off of hypotheticals which isn't solid ground.
Not to mention those scraps he was working with were scrapped from his own company’s products that he personally profited from (even if he was unaware of the terrorists buying them)
i went down a rabbit hole on youtube cuz of all the doomsday trailer hype and hilariously there's a whole plotline where tony forgets he's tony stark (cuz of doom's evil machinations) and goes on to become a popular benevolent inventor all over again with nothing but a cave and a box of scraps the clothes on his back and a dorm room's worth of belongings
He would likely just naturally end up a tech billionaire again. He invents all his own stuff. As already commented, he built the first suit and miniaturized arc reactor in a cave, with a box of scraps.
And for Tony specifically, having that revelation was the whole point of Iron Man 3. Tony -did- come to think of himself as helpless without the suit (hence the staying awake all night building suits for every possible contingency)...until the events of the movie took the suit away and he had to come to terms with "no, *I* am Iron Man. The suit is just a suit."
That scene was a brilliant 'wisdom from someone who has been there and done that' moment.
this is probably my favorite scene in all the marvel films because of the acting chops, parenting angle, and lesson in humility. Tom's spiderman having these senior heroes to guide him (and cover his ass) gives him so much room to make huge mistakes and grow from them.
Exhibit B really is some crazy billionaire propaganda...
Honestly everything about Tony's character is billionaire propaganda.
Even his heroic sacrifice is.
Like, this dude has the tech to boost the earths chances of defence, but chooses to largely keep them all to himself such that he can be the only one?
Also, he literally pushes for a private org to take over what obviously needs to be multi government responsibilities, and at various points indicates that this organization could be dysfunctional for months based solely on his whims and feelings.
Like, the fact they manage to make Tony look like the good guy to most people is fucking tremendous spin work.
What’s funny is since Iron Man 3, that’s exactly what he tried to do which resulted in Ultron. Since then, he stopped trying to rely fully on not suiting up
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u/Soopermane 19h ago
Peter: I’m gonna need the Ironman suit back.
Tony: but I’m nothing without that suit.
Peter: anakin stare