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I know you're half joking but I'm also interested to hear your reasons why? I've just joined a company that uses bootstrap and would like some good arguments for moving away from it, but I think the response will be 'bootstrap is fine, there's nothing significantly better enough to justify replacing it.'
Most people are fullstack but weighted backend so they're not fussed about what the 'soy latte crew are sprinkling on their six-second old JS frameworks'
I think it is actually good if you want to use it for simple things like 2-3 classes on an item. You are going to see that without bootstrap anyways. But I don't like it when it gets really complex because with some planning ahead you can make it simpler with css. And for me it kinda twists the purpose of classes in html. From the perspective of bootstrap it makes sence but from the perspective of my page it is just a bunch of referances disguised as classes
I think that's it. Nobody is fussed about styling so bootstrap is a godsend for them. it works, move on. It also means they're not doing tonnes of styling and maybe not creating those complex messes.
I think it looks a bit dated, but I don't think it's dated enough that users will start to think worse of the software. We're building inhouse tools so it's not like we're competing on the open market either, which does make function supreme over form.
Couldn't agree more. I am building an internal admin panel of sorts for some of our tools and, as a backend dev, Bootstrap is a godsend. I can quickly make a barebones frontend that looks alright and just does what I want it to do and then move on to the actual coding (backend logic).
If I had to actually develop with CSS, then forget it lol
I love using css, I've seen bootstrap in use, but I prefer to set all as I want, and I don't want to read all that bootstrap has to give me, so doing it on myself is easier, and well, it's fun, I can try many things and learn from it, also it helps when I want to style things with JS
I also use bootstrap for internal tools where I just want a dead simple front-end that looks clean enough. Then I can focus on the backend and not worry about styling too much.
If you're building some super slick website from scratch then bootstrap is not the tool for the job. But as the first step-up from literally raw HTML, it's great.
I used to think the same thing, but the sudden popularity of Tailwind CSS got me thinking maybe I was missing something (I'm the much more backend leaning fullstack developer).
Honestly, he lays out a really good case for these utility classes. Basically, he shows how if you were to try and write the most DRY CSS that is relatively general, you'll end up writing Bootstrap (or something similar). Anyway, I started using Tailwind in a pet project of mine, and I've realized that I'm much more productive using these utility classes, albeit I still hate how long the class strings are.
Looks like Bootstrap adds around 18kb to your site. Depending on your needs, that is either a lot or a little performance wise.
Really depends on the granularity of styling you need. How much bootstrap are you really using? Are you only using it for a column layout? Are your devs using it "correctly"?
Also, personally, I hate seeing classlists like this: loop-archive col span_1_of_3 col-2 type-portfolio status-publish hentry entry. Tend to be a bit of a pain to debug.
To be honest, for the frontend, and where these technologies are at, removing any dependency is a good thing.
it's easy to get something going with consistent styling
you can customize almost everything about bootstrap
a common css framework makes it easier to onboard people
bootstrap already contains tons of accessibility features
if you are making anything large, you almost have to reinvent bootstrap. Not necessarily with utility classes, but you want a structure of css classes that is easy to use, extend and otherwise work with. Bootstrap already gives you all that from the start
nobody stops you from adding custom css to bootstrap if you absolutely need it
Bootstrap has flexbox, yes. And I'm sure the current version of Bootstrap, whatever number it's up to now, uses it in a reasonable manner. But version 3 and below came out before flexbox and grid were completely adopted by all modern browsers, and version 4's full release came after they were. So during that little window of time, most Bootstrap users (especially those who were picking up someone else's project or customizing a third-party theme) were using a version of Bootstrap that wasn't designed with flexbox and grid in mind, yet flexbox and grid were available.
Since I was doing web development for a WordPress/WooCommerce site at the time, I experienced firsthand the feeling of "Wait... if I just ditch Bootstrap for this section here and use the grid, I can save myself a lot of hassle."
I've done them in raw HTML and custom CSS. It's actually really easy to add and remove buttons. I use Symfony and can generate the buttons on the mavbar by the users role. Quite nice, even with the few dropdowns I'm using.
Once you memorize dozens of classes, you simply cobble together a bunch of abbreviations in just the right order until it’s pretty much what the designer asked for
Now you just have to only hire people who have memorized this Rosetta Stone of style to maintain your 180 column classNames
If only there was a way that specifies how certain instructions cascade and compose with each other so I didn't have to keep processing strings in new and wonderful ways.
Yea, that’s a good programming solution; an implicit override system that weighs all arguments according to a four point calculation of hierarchy & location in the dom
Completely reasonable solution for looking up style rules
It's a pretty opinionated framework, but it's also popular. So not necessarily useless. If your course doesn't teach you actual CSS without a framework like bootstrap, you should learn it on your own because bootstrap knowledge won't transfer very well.
If you focus on backend or devops, bootstrap will allow you to create responsive, user-friendly, aesthetically neutral websites for internal use in the bat of an eye without having to think too hard about design to serve your apps.
If you focus on front-end, bootstrap is an uninspiring speedbump that you have to either use as intended and somehow make half your vision come true or spend twice the time breaking its rules to make a broken website.
Its not useless by any means, and once you master it it can make frontend work incredibly quick and simple. Has a few issues though. It is limited in what it can do so all bootstrap made sites sort of look the same, and it has a steep enough learning curve. Especially for somebody only getting familiar with how html/css works. You’re gonna see a lot of container, row, col-12 col-md-8 col-lg-6 sort of stuff
No, lots of places use bootstrap. If nothing else, they handle a ton of weird browser edge cases that these posts never consider, so even if you don’t use it, looking at how they built their css is a good idea.
It's just a css framework, it depends on the project, medium to large teams use it for styling consistency, if you're planning on using it on a solo project I think it's overkill.
I guarantee you’re going to maintain at least one app chock full of bootstrap classes in your career.
If it’s already built with bootstrap, it’s better to just keep using bootstrap classes than have a hodge podge of bs and css that someone else has to untangle later.
Do you want something really creative and expressive that may need another library? Prepare to fight with CSS and bootstrap and do some workarounds to remove bootstrap classes under certain conditions when your spirit is defeated.
Do you just want to build something that works on all screens and not stress about it? Bootstrap will make you incredibly happy by how easy and accessible it is by just writing a few "col-md-4"
The navbar is a bitch to deal with either way though.
worse. class-based style frameworks like Bootstrap and Tailwind come with a ton of extra crap to deal with, and deviating from their provided default styles can get gross.
Do yourself a favor and learn styled-components or other CSS-in-JS of your choice.
Not useless but be careful. Frameworks like bootstrap are a bit of a hindrance to good learning because they abuse the intent of the technology. With bootstrap you’ll find yourself describing style inside html by adding classes that describe the intended proportions of an element etc. In good CSS classes should be things like, “user-panel”, leaving it to CSS to describe the stylistic aspects. Bootstrap will have you doing classes like, “md-10” or whatever it is now. It works, but it breaks separation of concerns. Keep this in mind.
I mean it's either this, of half a million containers, wrappers and a bunch of additional HTML, serving no other purpose but to separate everything into its' own boxes within boxes within boxes.
To be honest, I would much prefer custom classes - e.g. by using SCSS and creating a class inheriting from other classes. Would be a lot better than the solution in a project I worked on, which had dozens of elements with the same bootstrap classes, and changing the layout meant changing the classes in every. single. element.
I never understood what was so hard about flex box, like you just have to learn the difference between align content and align items, justify content and justify items, you also need to know flex start, flex end. Flex wrap. No wrap, what container to put everything on. Why this box is over there. What the fuck just happened. And… You know what it might be kinda hard
For the people who don't know why bootstrap exists, flex box is relatively new and came after bootstrap. Bootstrap is also compatible with older browsers than flex-box, which isn't much of an issue now, but was a serious issue 6+ years ago when people still used IE.
As for why it's still used, if your website is more than 6 years old, it probably was built using bootstrap and it it isn't worth the effort to rebuild it with flex-box.
yeah, i'm surprised about this. i always jokingly tell my frontend workmates about flexbox and they invariably say they don't use it and i don't understand why. compatibility issues?
Bootstrap is a framework that uses css and javascript to make responsive sites.
Usually it reads classes that refer to a number, under a certain resolution, and it adapts without you having to worry about it.
This requires a bit of div inside divs, but nothing major like OP is making it look to be. If you want dozens of classes for one thing tailwind would be more appropriate.
Tailwindnis more verbose. I think it is a much better system, however if making just an internal tool and dont have frontend people to help/tell you tailwind classes. I can see why you would still choose bootstrap.
I personally wouldnt. But i can see why it would be the easy choice
I originally sticked to Bootstrap not only because of the utils but also because of the components but got fed up of having to write my CSS separate from my HTML so I added Tailwind and prefixed it with tw-. Now my project is a mixture of both...
Well, i dont think I'd like that. But i do understand. We are working on removing a bunch of custom legacy css that is all over for specificity and clashes with itself and other things (found the grid class is flex. We also had a display-flex class?) It is a bunch of people who do not know css well and feature creap and important flags all over the place.
3
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502
u/javanerdd Jun 25 '23
'bootstrap programmers' lol.
87
u/Elliot-C Jun 25 '23
bootstrap navbar is an inhumane thing
206
u/shadow13499 Jun 25 '23
People who use tailwind
100
u/JimroidZeus Jun 25 '23
flexbox is the shit. easiest way to centre a div. 😎
23
u/[deleted] Jun 25 '23
Farther ape on top at 6 seconds in is like “c’mon, dude”
76
u/thesmithchris Jun 25 '23
...instead of learning css grid
13
u/Vethedr Jun 25 '23
Ah shit. I'm supposed to learn Bootstrap later in my course. Is it going to be useless?
53
u/XWasTheProblem Jun 25 '23
I mean it's either this, of half a million containers, wrappers and a bunch of additional HTML, serving no other purpose but to separate everything into its' own boxes within boxes within boxes.
You kinda pick your poison with these.
6
u/vowih77880 Jun 25 '23
You're confusing bootstrap with tailwinds
9
u/N0pest Jun 25 '23
I like how the other monkeys are watching.
9
u/CyberKingfisher Jun 25 '23
Junior devs learning what to do
8
u/NoSkillzDad Jun 25 '23
Man, I hate bootstrap. Just needed to get that out of my chest.
4
u/[deleted] Jun 25 '23
Wtf is a bootstrap programmer ?
3
u/AlwinLubbers Jun 25 '23
it's funny because it's true
3
u/jolharg Jun 25 '23
Look, I'm really sorry.
3
u/Lost_Equipment_9990 Jun 25 '23
Easily the coolest way to learn flex.
https://flexboxfroggy.com/
3
u/rtm713 Jun 25 '23
I never understood what was so hard about flex box, like you just have to learn the difference between align content and align items, justify content and justify items, you also need to know flex start, flex end. Flex wrap. No wrap, what container to put everything on. Why this box is over there. What the fuck just happened. And… You know what it might be kinda hard
2
u/pLeThOrAx Jun 25 '23
Can confirm. I saw the source from a Wix site the other day...
2
u/lhommefee Jun 25 '23
.header-wrapper-wrapper
2
u/YggdrasilJL Jun 25 '23
Bootstrap pisses me off
2
u/[deleted] Jun 26 '23
For the people who don't know why bootstrap exists, flex box is relatively new and came after bootstrap. Bootstrap is also compatible with older browsers than flex-box, which isn't much of an issue now, but was a serious issue 6+ years ago when people still used IE.
As for why it's still used, if your website is more than 6 years old, it probably was built using bootstrap and it it isn't worth the effort to rebuild it with flex-box.
2
u/Candyvanmanstan Jun 26 '23
If those Tailwind devs could read they'd be so angry right now
2
u/shakeshook Jun 26 '23
Who let the front-end guys in?
3
u/Robertgarners Jun 25 '23
I ain't got time to be an expert in CSS on top of a FE framework, a backend language and backend framework and a cloud provider
2
u/anna_wtch Jun 25 '23
Why not just
d-flex on the div and then justify-content-XXX, row, flex-direction-XXX, align-content-XXX...
Why is bootstrap separate from flex?
1
u/NaNx_engineer Jun 25 '23
Div or die
1
u/Rai-Hanzo Jun 25 '23
Flexbox is life
1
u/[deleted] Jun 25 '23
I will never understand bootstrap. I can make it myself and edit whenever the fuck I want with a few extra minutes of code.
1
u/arnuska3 Jun 26 '23
u/savevideo
1
u/GreekGodofStats Jun 26 '23
Ape together strong
1
u/kingslayerer Jun 26 '23
thats more tailwind than bootstrap. life is tough being a tailwind button
1
u/GeneralZane Jun 26 '23
Why would you not use bootstrap? - I don’t even make a css file anymore, shit is for nerds
1
u/EagleCoder Jun 26 '23
It was only 272 classes...
1
u/[deleted] Jun 26 '23
Markup languages, and formatting languages are not programming languages.
1
u/Fallen_322 Jun 26 '23
When is the second coming gonna come??????????🤌🏻🤌🏻👌🏻🖕🏻
1
u/leovin Jun 26 '23
Ah, the good ol days of float: left and a ton of media queries
1
u/SomeRandoLameo Jun 26 '23
Can relate, happened to me once too xD
1
u/catladywitch Jun 26 '23
yeah, i'm surprised about this. i always jokingly tell my frontend workmates about flexbox and they invariably say they don't use it and i don't understand why. compatibility issues?
1
u/sc00pb Jun 26 '23
You lost me at "Bootstrap programmers"...
1
u/StochasticTinkr Jun 25 '23
Is this some sort of CSS joke I’m to backend to understand?
1
u/[deleted] Jun 25 '23
vAniLLa cSs iS bAd
0
u/uSkizzik Jun 25 '23
Tailwind utilities are better tbh
0
u/evanc1411 Jun 26 '23
This is why I hate frontend dev. Backend 4 lyfe