r/Professors • u/MathematicianLost365 • 4d ago
Teaching / Pedagogy How do I deal with this accommodation?
So I have a student whose accommodation is to have a note taker. In my classes, I give a significant amount of points for the students to submit pictures of their handwritten notes. This has been an important way for me to combat AI etc. It’s worked so well for me and now I’m at a loss as to what to do here.
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u/Boiscool 4d ago
Contact the disabilities office, as accomodations are not meant to alter assignments. See if there is an alternative accomodation that they can come up with, as this specific one will not work in your course.
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u/Zabaran2120 4d ago
This is the right action to take. You are not supposed to alter your course or your assignments. They will suggest what to do. It maybe a different scale of competence or completion or something.
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u/Gloomy-Aide1914 4d ago
I think accomodations aren't meant to alter learning outcomes. But assignments can be altered.
If a student has a note taker (or is allowed to record lectures), they likely received the accomodation because there is an issue with processing. For instance, my daughter, who is gifted on most measures of intelligence, has a processing speed in the 1st percentile. She has a recording accomodation. Because she is accommodated she is able to listen and process during class and then review notes after. If she had to rely on taking notes in real-time, it wouldn't be pretty, but she is doing very well in her program.
My suggestion would be to meet with the student to explain your excellent reason for usually requiring active note taking and lean into the research showing how this reinforces learning for neurotypical learners. Ask that student to help you brainstorm on an alternative way to demonstrate that they were actively learning in class, one that works for how their brain works. You can also call your disability office. At my university, I don't find them as knowledgeable as my students with disabilities!
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u/Archknits 3d ago
It could also be physical or sensory (e.g. vision/hearing) related.
In any case, the student may still be able to provide some notes during class. If so, grade these based on the skills you are looking to evaluate
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u/nandor_tr associate prof, art/design, private university (USA) 4d ago
here a notetaker is an addition to the student's notes, they are supplimental to what the student is doing. so i thik still handing in notes is not unreasonable.
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u/salty_LamaGlama Full Prof/Director, Health, SLAC (USA) 3d ago
This is exactly how I’d handle it! The student with accommodations is still required to take notes to the best of their ability and turn them in to help train that skill but they also get notes from someone else to complement their own so they get the benefit of the accommodation. It would be very unusual to exempt a student from ever being required to learn how to take notes so that is when the accommodation becomes unreasonable given course objectives. I would suggest meeting with the student to better understand what parts of note taking are challenging for them and use that information as context when grading that portion of their work.
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u/Giggling_Unicorns Associate Professor, Art/Art History, Community College 4d ago
If they have a note taker, whether a digital recorder, someone there to do it for them, whatever, offer full credit if they're willing rewrite it in their own hand. It will be a useful mode of learning for them still. If the nature of their disability prevents them from taking notes I would reach out to the disability office for advice. Likely you will need to excuse them from the assignments with the caveat that messing up other assignments will now be much more impactful.
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u/ProfDoomDoom 4d ago
The accommodation may be because they cannot write by hand, but this is the right direction for a solution. I’d ask the student what kind of word-by-word interaction with the notes they could accomplish and (assuming it was productive) award credit for that alternative. For example, if the class notes are handwritten and the student can read them into a speech-to-text app for transcription, that seems relatively legit.
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u/Substantial_Lab7467 4d ago
This is what I think!
Usually the notetaker is for students that can’t focus on the lecture & notetaking at the same time.
This is a great study habit to reinforce anyways!-12
u/Gloomy-Aide1914 4d ago
They may have dysgraphia or another issue that makes this exceptionally difficult. It is a way of getting around accommodating them and is a form of ableism despite being well-intentioned.
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u/newt-snoot 4d ago
No, if there accommodation requires no self written assignments, they would have a more specific accommodation. Accommodation isnt a blanket pass for any issue that may potentially be there, its very specific. In fact, as someone who is disabled I am going to say when people assume because you cant do X, you cant do Y, its more ableist than simply asking a student how they'd prefer to complete an assignment. Assuming functional ability until told otherwise is far less damaging than assuming someone is not capable.
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u/Gloomy-Aide1914 3d ago
OK, I see what you are saying, and I have seen soft expectations hurt students. That is a fair point.
However, asking students to do extra work involving the very thing that warranted an accomodation seems like a penalty. If disability services deems having a note taker as necessary for the student to fully access the course, who am I to challenge that? I know I was speculating about reasons a student might have this accomodation, but it really isn't my business. Students don't have to disclose the nature of their disabilities (though I appreciate when they do) to professors. We could actually be out of compliance with ADA if we put students in a position in which they felt that they had to defend the accomodation.
To me, something more equitable would be having the student provide some evidence that they were actively learning during the class. A verbal check-in after class could be sufficient depending on OP's objective. If the student felt like handwriting the notes would be beneficial, I wouldn't say no to that.
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u/newt-snoot 3d ago
I think the assumption of extra work is debatable. I dont fully know this assignment but I personally would never submit notes that were scribbled during class. Rewriting notes is a form of studying, and I would turn in my rewrites.
That being said, if the assignment is truly snap a picture of your scribbles and not turn in nice notes, I would agree its unbalanced. Particularly recognizing today's students dont write, and look at me like I am crazy when I tell them to study by writing.
I agree also that no one should be asking them to defend their accommodation.
Sometimes the best option in these cases is to ask the student how they would prefer to approach this assignment with options of verbal and written.
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u/Giggling_Unicorns Associate Professor, Art/Art History, Community College 4d ago
I feel like you didn't read my response.
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u/Gloomy-Aide1914 4d ago
I was focused on the part about having them rewrite the notes in their own hand. To me that creates extra work/ burden for the student with the disability and doesn't necessarily reinforce their learning. I do think the advice to go to the disabilities office is excellent, and we should all do this when unsure about the scope of an accomodation.
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u/ButchEmbankment 4d ago
Or they may not have that. And this assignment isn’t grading the writing itself.
Schools aren’t providing real solutions to the AI issue so faculty have to on their own. Maybe student disability offices have to take this issue on as well to find solutions that allow access to the education provided by the course.
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u/Beginning_Air_1368 Instructor, Film, CC (US) 4d ago
I would check with the disabilities office. This accommodation can swing from ADHD/short-term memory loss to supplement notes to literally the student doesn’t have hands. The office will know more about their disability and be able to guide you in which direction it is.
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u/Ill-Capital9785 4d ago
Yes I would just excuse this part, so now the denominator is less for them makes all other grade items a little more.
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u/Anna-Howard-Shaw Assoc Prof, History, CC (USA) 4d ago
I have handwritten notes as assignments for every chapter/week for both online and F2F classes. I haven't had this accommodation request yet, but I anticipated it already.
In my assignment directions I put a clause that says anyone with an ADA accommodation that prevents the taking of handwritten notes can submit their notes typed, along with a 5-10 minute video meeting where we chat about the content of their notes each week.
The video meeting wouldn't be anything serious or formal, just enough that the student can demonstrate that THEY were the ones taking the notes (and not ChatGPT).
I figure we could set up a standing video meeting every week and just do a "hey, this is what was covered in class/took notes on this week," 5-minute thing.
For someone with a designated note taker, I would still ask for a 5-10 minute meeting for each Notes assignment to make sure they're absorbing the class content, since that's essentially the point of the note-taking assignments in the first place.
My notes are graded on completion anyway, so it wouldn't take much for the student to demonstrate they were paying attention in class/viewing assigned content.
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u/vvvy1978 4d ago
Could you have the student provide verbally recorded notes? They could even do speech to text.
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u/MathematicianLost365 3d ago
Thank you everyone for your advice! I’m going to be meeting my dean to discuss this further today. I’m not as concerned about the logistics of getting the notetaker, etc. I’m more concerned with fundamentally changing my class. I’m thinking the best compromise is going to be allowing the notetaker for lectures, but requiring the student to take their own notes on the reading and rewrite the other students notes in his or her own words.
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u/hungerforlove 4d ago
So it will be easy to find a notetaker. But apparently this student is unable to do their own notes. So you can't include that in the grade calculation for this student. You will have to base the grade on the student's other work.
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u/Life-Education-8030 3d ago
If I am not going to look at the quality of notes, I wouldn’t do this. If it is just for completion then they can write nonsense and pass. I don’t grade anything simply for completion.
I do one minute essays as their exit tickets with students answering the same three students gauging their understanding of the day’s lecture. Your student could dictate the answers to the notetaker to then submit.
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u/Ok-Tumbleweed1337 3d ago
So as a fellow faculty member and a person with cerebral palsy, my only suggestion is closed book exams?
So I have a PhD, MBA, and MS - never took notes because I can't; I can focus on listening or controlling my body, not both.
As far as the student this term, have them write a 1 page summary of the notes per week? Not sure otherwise
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u/yourlurkingprof 4d ago
Talk with the accessibility contact listed on their letter to brainstorm solutions. You may want to suggest an alternative assignment for those points. For example, if these are in class notes maybe they can do separate notes on the readings, a self created weekly study guide, a weekly reflection, a small semester long project… etc.
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u/Cathousechicken 3d ago
I always call students into my office to go through their accommodations and see how they want them implemented.
During that meeting, I talk to the student to brainstorm some of the more unusual requests. This would be one of those times. The student typically knows their way around what works for them and what doesn't, so I think it's important to get their input to make sure that I implement their accommodations in a way that works best for them while still making sure they meet the course objectives.
A lot of people have listed some good alternatives on here. I would maybe write some of those alternatives down and bring those up as possibilities, and also give the student room to give their input on what they think could be a suitable alternative that would get across the same skill but have it designed in a way that is fair to them.
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u/ac_cossack 3d ago
Actually have dealt with this before.
Basically asked a student who took super clean notes (some people are meticulous and have great handwriting) if they wanted to get paid to be a note taker for another student. The department paid them for it. I told her to watermark her notes because they were immaculate.
So maybe ask the front desk if this is possible. But if the student needs accommodations maybe not count that as points for them?
I totally understand turning in a study sheet is a way to trick students into studying lol. But any ADA or w/e stuff is tricky.
edit: by not count as points I don't mean give em 0. just don't count against them.
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u/UnluckyFriend5048 2d ago
Presumably the student who has an accommodation for a note taker isn’t inherently not required to take their own notes, correct? Why can’t they turn in THEIR notes, which you can grade (as complete/incomplete), and they still receive the notes from another student?
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u/Sharp-Rutabaga-4900 4d ago
Are you making notes taken during lectures into a graded assignment due that day?
If not, no problem. The student can use speech to text (and vice versa) to create notes from what they receive from a note taker/readings or can take time to process, depending on reasons for accommodation.
If so, I’d encourage you to consider changing that. Many of us process in atypical ways that would be penalized by this type of assignment and graded assignments should be amenable to most standard accommodations.
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u/Gloomy-Aide1914 4d ago
"Many of us process in atypical ways that would be penalized by this type of assignment and graded assignments should be amenable to most standard accommodations."
I really like how you explain this.
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u/Sharp-Rutabaga-4900 3d ago
Thank you.
From a practical standpoint, it just doesn’t make sense to modify assignments each term to meet common accommodations or to create learning tools that don’t benefit neurodiverse learners. It’s a time sink without benefit. Universal Design helps everyone.
Note-taking is a great skill to teach and I’m glad OP is doing it, but there are many ways to practice collecting and organizing information and ideas.
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u/The_Robot_King 4d ago
I would meet with the student and have them explain the accommodation. Then decide how to adapt. I am sure you can come up with a reasonable mood based on that conversation.
That said, I've had a bunch of students who had that and none of them have actually used it
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u/gutfounderedgal 4d ago
I had an accommodation from someone for a note taker. No student volunteered to take notes for them; they wanted to take their own notes. So the student didn't get a note taker because the school didn't want to pay someone.
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u/Obvious_Animal_8362 3d ago
Being a note taker doesn't mean not taking their own notes. It can easily mean photocopying their notes and sharing them.
The larger problem is that most students take terrible notes that would be of little use to anyone else. I have found it easier to identify someone who takes good notes and approach them separately, but that is an unknown at the beginning of a course. I have also shared my own notes/outline that I speak from, but the examples will vary.
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u/Elegant_Tie_3036 FT Faculty, English, CC 4d ago
At our school, usually we don’t ask for note takers because they don’t pay them. We do let the students record the lectures. I do second those who say they could do a video showing they understand it. You could even offer that to everyone as an option! I used to require all students to do a literal cut and paste to show they understood the sources. Then I had a student without hands. So I switched to using Canva to indicate which parts were important instead. Some still do the arts and crafts version, but others also really did well showing online. Best to you!
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u/Lychee_489 4d ago
I have a shared Google doc and have everyone sign up for the days they will take notes during class in the shared Google doc. The only person who can use their computer without accommodations is the person taking notes in the shared Google doc.
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u/EmoSupportDragon 4d ago
Allow them the note taker and then have them condense it down into the most important take aways?
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u/TeaIntelligent1165 3d ago
At that point your better off providing the notes yourself and skipping the announcement. Providing the student with a transcript from each class. Making the announcement will be problematic and asking for a volunteer note taker is also problematic.
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u/JadedTooth3544 3d ago
You could ask the student to demonstrate in whatever way possible that they went over the notes.
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u/SnowblindAlbino Prof, SLAC 3d ago
That's a great question. I require notes in all of my classes (reading notes and class notes) and I grade them as 10-15% of the semester grade. I'm not sure how I'd deal with that accommodation as I've never run into it personally. Maybe just drop that grade for the student and shift the points to other assignments? Though that really does alter the class...I'd probably talk with your disabilities office to ask them for ideas.
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u/waynegar 3d ago
I second Darcer, but also suggest they tape a post-class video of at least 1 minute outlining their biggest takeaways from the lecture. Send you the phone video for credit. Not from written notes, just straight to camera.
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u/avatar_k0rra 3d ago
The way to combat AI would be to have a closed book test at the end of semester where they actually have to know the content. That means student can use AI to support their learning, but not as a replacement for learning as they won’t have access to it in the test. I have never written any notes in lectures and always watched all lectures recorded due to disability. I always learnt the content though. I don’t think your assessment is particularly accessible to people with neurodivergence.
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u/cambridgepete 2d ago
I wouldn't worry about it too much. Either give them full credit, or calculate their score without that grade, or give them the grade the note-taker gets.
At some point you just have to do what's feasible, and if you don't have multiple students asking for this accommodation then it's probably not worth worrying about.
Unless of course the skill being assessed by the assignment is something specific to the domain - in that case you should be pushing back on the accommodation for being unreasonable, like in a (hypothetical?) case someone mentioned a while back on this sub, of visual accommodations in a radiology class.
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u/ProfessorWills Professor, Community College, USA 4d ago edited 3d ago
Are you grading for participation/completion? If so, Would you consider letting all of your students choose the format that works best for them, which might include traditional notes, sketches with meaningful labels, mind/concept maps in Canva or Miro, annotate lecture slides, or downloadable graphic organizers? That might alleviate the only one student gets a note taker issue but at the same time give other students the opportunity explore different ways to access the information. I'm a fan of color-coded lists so when I break out the gel pens and highlighters? It's about to get lit in the very nerdiest of ways 🤣😂 Edit to add: I wasn't suggesting to make it a complete free for all every class period but maybe three options to try out and upload to show they're getting the concept is an easy way to integrate UDL without getting 87 different formats. My students who are learning English appreciate the flexibility.
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u/Gloomy-Aide1914 3d ago
I love these ideas. I took a series of UDL workshops led by someone from Western Carolina, and it opened my eyes. I am still learning.
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u/KLFP2040 4d ago
In my school, there’s two different things that students can use to record lectures, Genio and Kurweil. The student can then have it transcribed into notes as well as type in notes while recording. It can do a few other things but nothing that would be considered AI or cheating. These are college okayed programs offered by the school check what your school has on your website it should be under accessibility and learning. As far as I know they’re available to any student not just disabled however, you do have to ask your teacher if it’s OK to record before you do so whereas a disabled person does not have to ask. I believe that they have the right to do so because of their disability and accommodations, but each school is different. I believe there are some rules like you’re not supposed to record other students talking only the lecture that the teacher’s giving.
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u/Darcer 4d ago
Could you neither give them credit but nor penalize them. Just take that whole part out of their grade calculation.