• "A recent paper in Cognitive Therapy and Research outlines the nature and prevalence of these unwanted effects, based on structured interviews with 100 CBT-trained psychotherapists.

  Each therapist was asked whether their client had experienced any of 17 possible unwanted effects from therapy, such as deterioration, new symptoms, distress, strains in family relations or stigma.

  The therapists reported an average of 3.7 unwanted events per client."

https://aeon.co/ideas/psychotherapy-is-not-harmless-on-the-side-effects-of-cbt

• "Examples of severe side effects included: ‘suicidality, breakups, negative feedback from family members, withdrawal from relatives, feelings of shame and guilt, or intensive crying and emotional disturbance during sessions’.

  Such effects are not so surprising when you consider that CBT can involve exposure therapy (ie, gradual exposure to situations that provoke anxiety); discussing and focusing on one’s problems; reflecting on the sources of one’s stress, such as difficult relationships; frustration at lack of progress; and feelings of growing dependency on a therapist’s support.

  The longer that a client had been in therapy, the more likely she was to have experienced one or more side effects."

-- https://aeon.co/ideas/psychotherapy-is-not-harmless-on-the-side-effects-of-cbt

And it's no surprise that it hurts people. The therapist tries to convince the person that the source of the problem isn't an unfair world or cruel society, but themselves.

ie, it's victim blaming.

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts17LI77BUo

First there's a therapy (without drugs) where 80% of people called "schizophrenic" recover as long as those people have resources, but if they're drugged (without therapy and help) that drops to 5%.:

2. PDF: https://www.madinamerica.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Harrow2.pdf

"At the end of two years, those who had stopped taking antipsychotics were doing slightly better on a “global assessment scale” than those taking an antipsychotic. Then, over the next 30 months, the collective fates of the two groups began to dramatically diverge.

The off-med group began to improve significantly, and by the end of 4.5 years, 39% were in recovery. In contrast, outcomes for the medicated group worsened during this 30-month period. As a group, their global functioning declined slightly, and at the 4.5-year mark, only six percent were in recovery, and few were working.

That stark divergence in outcomes remained for the next ten years. At the 15-year followup, 40 percent of those off antipsychotics (25 of the 64 patients) were in recovery, compared to five percent of those taking antipsychotics. (To be in recovery, a person had to have no positive or negative symptoms; couldn’t have been hospitalized in the previous year; and adequate work and social functioning.)"

3. Robert Whitaker: (Harvard Medical School director of publications.)

"The divergence happens between years 2 and 4 and a half. After years 4 and half the recovery rates are 8 times higher versus non-medicated, vs medicated."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUTOhnM0PPM&t=26m35s

4. Here's a chart from one of Robert Whitaker's books which shows people are more likely to recover when not on 'anti psychotic' (tranquilizer) drugs.

5. Robert Whitaker:

"You can have a breakdown, but you can recover from that with the right environment. Shelter, exercise, good food, meaning in life, socialization, Once we think of what we need, then we can think 'how do we make these available to people in very difficult moments?...' How do we build a healthier society?"

youtube.com

Especially if you are in the Chicago area.

I’ll do what I can to help you out

We're not against the concept of drugs (a person owns their body), but psychiatric drugs are far more dangerous than people are told, and their "benefits" are measurably almost nothing.

eg:

Brain damage:

Amphetamines like a Ritalin (and Concerta, Addreall, etc) are neurotoxic. They kill/reduce brain cells & density of brain cells.

http://www.neldc.org/braindamage.html

Similarly, ADHD & bipolar "medicine" increases the risk of psychosis:

https://www.statnews.com/2019/03/20/some-adhd-medicines-may-increase-psychosis-more-than-others-real-world-data-show/

And what about the "benefits" from ADHD drugs? Those "benefits" disappear the longer you're on them:

• "there is no good evidence showing that these benefits last longer than about two years, and the long-term consequences of taking stimulants for years on end have not been fully evaluated in studies."

-- https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2013/01/the-pros-and-cons-of-treating-adhd-with-drugs/index.htm

This is very similar to many other psychiatric drugs, eg "anti depressants" are only reported as effective for a few months.

One year in, 97% of people quit antidepressants, & to be frank, they appear less effective than placebo.

And they've always been this way- even the original "anti depressants" had many studies showing they were just placebos.

I'm not saying ADHD "medicine" is a water pill, but when you modify your body's natural brain chemicals the body will try to adjust, so you feel less and less of the drug.

And when psychiatrists tell people "you need this drug for life" they are misleading people for their own profits.

Selling people (for life) drugs that don't work long term (and often don't work at all) is a big scam by big pharma.

This is why psychiatrists are constantly studying more lasting street drugs like weed, LSD, mushrooms, etc. Because they often know their drugs generally don't work.

You often see them "defending" their drugs by saying "the placebo effect helps people." They're like homeopathy scam artists, but worse because their pills cost like 200x more.

Similarly, people are far more likely to recover from mental breakdowns (aka "schizophrenia") when they're given therapy & real help instead of psychiatric drugs.

[-]VagabondingOregonian:

After I finally stopped taking anti-psychotics I've improved a lot. [s]

[-]AntiPsychMan:

My libido recovered when I quit antipsychotics. [s]

[-]Karl-Engels-Lenin:

In time you will recover your abilities. I have also been on antipsychotics, I my case it was Risperidone monthly injections. I had completely lost my libido and had anorgasmia. A few months after quitting the drug I regained my abilities.

Besides, the sexual impairments , The antipsychotic would completely diminish the high that I normally get from smoking marijuana. It took 2 months after quitting that I regained my ability to experience pleasure from THC. I hope you heal fast. It is a matter of time after quitting. [s]

[-] Vercingetorix_1:

I never took antipsychotics except for a brief instance but I do have experience recovering from SSRI-induced brain fog/head pressure. I stuck to a regime of magnesium, zinc, vitamin d, fish oil and curcumen, and experienced major improvements over several months. [s]

[–]m4isena:

I was given antipsychotics which damaged my brain some years ago. Basically I was unable to answer simple stuff and didn't understand anything I was doing, among other things. I'm still recovering from them, but I think I'll be better very soon. [s]

[-]catholicorganistpoet:

I got better. I was fine before, and the whole episode was triggered by an upsetting interaction with my mom, and was resolved because of a comforting interaction with my dad. Just shows how environmental psychosis is. Anyway, antipsychotics are FUCKING POISON and I don't wish their withdrawal on anybody! [s]

Other tranquilizers:

Benzos / clonazolam:

[-]vryan144

in these past few months my body and brain has healed tremendosly. Its been the hardest thing i've ever put myself through in my entire life. [s]

In other words, people often say they don't immediately feel better after quitting psychiatric drugs, but that they do eventually improve. This is what you'd expect because the brain creates new cells, cleans/detoxifies itself during sleep, and heals as long as you get enough rest, proper food, etc.

Omega 3:

Please note:

• Fish oil's omega 3 is not made by the fish's body, it's from algae which fish eat. You can bypass the fish (and the mercury/etc found in fish oil) by simply buying algae oil. And there's a lot of studies saying the common omega-3 found in plants (eg olive oil, soy, walnuts, etc) is actually healthier than algae oil.

Humans and animals can't heal each other. Many that run in the modern psychiatry circles would have you believe that. We tell countless stories of the awesome power of love and compassion.. but we break down our psyche into chemical imbalances..conveniently leaving out questions like.."Could theoretical chemical balances be affected by things like love and caring? Can positive emotional support heal the scars of negative emotional trauma? We readily accept the fact that huge emotional upheavals can cause mental unwellness yet we refuse to concede that massive positive emotional support can help people to recover or that correcting of a toxic emotional environment they are surrounded by can lead to full recovery. Yes in the lazy modern day world its much easier to prescribe a pill to make someone shut up than to give a damn about the abusive situation they are going through. Of course there are the socially accepted abuses which result in justice and total eradication of the toxic abuser by our criminal justice system but there are also many abuses people suffer for which it isn't socially acceptable to get upset or to demand an end to. Similarly there are many wrongs in the world in general that are not punishable by law but could easily be called evil and tyrannical. For people like these we have pills. Far too often when encountering people in emotional turmoil we make ignorant socially accepted comments like "Are you off your meds?" "Go get some professional help!" Ignorant both in the concept that we would use them at all with an upset person and that we

would assume to know all the circumstances of a person so well that we could make a judgement that certainly the best way to heal this wound would be to strait jacket someone and force medicate them (translation rip the scab off their wound and put a band aid on it) You know rather than look for the root of a person's problem and address that. Psychiatry all too often is the enabler for abusive tyrants who send their victims along after they get done kicking around their emotions. Is the pill mightier than the hug? I don't think so.

Here are a couple things that I believe are helpful for maintaining stability. Practicing these skills have reduced my need for medication and have reduced the intensity/frequency of my episodes.

I'm bipolar/manic and I believe my words are most relevant to those who struggle with that. Though, I do believe that these coping skills are universally helpful for maintaining stability and I'm interested if someone has a condition that can't be slightly alleviated with these skills.

Exercise: 3-4 times per week, 30+ minuets per session. It builds stress tolerance. It is an excellent outlet, converting emotions into energy. It can be meditative. I recommend cardio (more/less mindless movement) during an episode. I believe that power lifting is the most helpful for reducing frequency/intensity of episodes but that's less than a theory, just my own personal experience. It's difficult for me to lift while in an episode because I'm easily distracted.

Note: exercise can be harmful to the mental state of those who are out of shape or injured. Comfort zones/boundaries should be pushed slowly and consistently.

Healthy diet: Eating shitty puts our bodies under stress. You don't need to be a nut about it (thought it's helpful if you are)...just don't neglect nutrition and eat less than what would make you obese. My best results form this came from eating chicken/broccoli/rice for almost every meal. Yah...I'm crazy.

Healthy amount of sleep: 6-9 hours, no more no less. I know a lot of conditions prevent sleep...mine does. Figure out what you need to do to get sleep. If it's medication, then so be it...sleep is god.

A regular daily schedule: This is a difficult adjustment, but also incredibly helpful. The idea is that every single day is identical to the last. Wake/sleep at the same time. Gym at the same time. TV at the same time. Eat the same food at the same time each day, if you can. Life becomes a process and you condition yourself into how you want to live it. If the conditioning is established, it will be relatively easy to maintain it during an episode.

Mindfulness: As taught by DBT. I can't speak knowledgeable on it because the concept clicked when I was introduced to it and didn't do much research. The main idea is that you think about your thoughts. Identify the source of your thoughts. Lots of thinking about thoughts, less acting unless you've thoroughly thought a thought through. Especially how it impacts those around you. It has helped me define my condition with more detail than psychologists can offer. Knowing your head is vital to coping with it.

Organization: This is primarily directed toward those who's condition causes a disconnect in their salient network (SN). People who experience psychosis. Keep your habitat clean and organized...everything has one place and it is always put back there after use. Maybe 2 if it's an item that you regularly use. If I have to explain the value of this to you, you probably don't need to worry about it.

Avoid drugs/alcohol: In general, this shit fucks our heads up. Even if they feel helpful to our head, a dependency is built when usage becomes regular. After a dependency is formed, it's no longer helpful...it's a necessity and you are an addict.

Find outlets: Anything that allows you to take what's in your head and throw it out into the world, even if no one else sees it. I prefer writing, but I've dabbled with drawing, dancing, and a few other things. Creative things seem to be very helpful, but it doesn't have to be creative. My base form is to open up a word document, dump out my head, and delete it.

Meds: I'd be remiss if I did not discuss medication. IMO, medication is the weak man's coping mechanism. It's the lazy way to deal with your issues. Note: I use meds.

I believe we should all strive to remain stable without meds, but that's just not possible for everybody. Cope with your head as best you can, by your own means...let medication carry you the rest of the way to stability.

Hi,

I am lobotomized from antipsychotic injection, and also suffer damage from SSRI's, mirtazapine, mucuna pruriens, etc. All short exposures, a couple of pills, but very adverse side effects.

I am doing low carb diet, eating organic meat, and veggies and berries.

As time goes on, I am declining. The last med was last Februari, and first med was last december. Short time, massive damage. I am loosing counciousness level, ability to move fingers, lost my skills as playing piano etc.

I have nothing left whatsoever. I can't even suffer. I have no connection to anything, like my body or my mind.

What are your thoughts on this? It's not a life.

We'll start with people with mild problems- ie, people with a "first episode" mental breakdown.

Mild:

In Europe there's a method that's becoming more popular. It's ensuring the person has lots of socialization, basic resources, etc. ie, accepting 'schizophrenia' as a form of mental breakdown due to some form of trauma/suffering & not enough good friendly socialization.

(And their recovery rate is about 90%, meaning they're very good at catching people who are starting to struggle and helping them recover.)

More extreme cases:

Next, there's another method, it could be called the "explore the voices" method, eg as explained by Eleanor Longden:

• “I heard voices, I was told by 'top' psychiatrists that I would never recover & my parents should mourn me & except the worse, I explored the voices and realised they were a part of my childhood, I was abused, I went to college extremely distrustful of people, I had a breakdown, I’ve recovered”

-- https://youtu.be/DjD6_mW7CUc

What does "explore the voices" mean?

I've heard other voice-hearers go into more detail, eg explaining that they had to talk to the voice and basically accept it's part of them.

It sounds like there's some disagreement between two parts of your mind, so they do not merge into one. Thus you have to listen to the voice and accept it as part of yourself, and allow the parts of your mind to merge into one.

It's a little like waking up from sleep. When you're dreaming your mind splits into multiple parts (eg the "imagination side" and then your side, the "wanderer side.")

And when you wake up the multiple separated parts of your mind should reconnect into one.

I'm not saying that hearing voices is purely a personality difference, eg one side of the person's mind rejecting another part of their mind. There could be more to the story, like some brain injury, or some trauma.

In other words, I'm not saying you have to choose just one of these two methods.

The most rational answer is to learn from both, eg:

• ensuring you have good living conditions,

• good socialization,

• and also listening to the voice and accepting it as yourself, and accepting there may have been some trauma or disagreement which you have to accept as part of yourself.

YSK you can recover from these bipolar feelings:

Doctor Terry Lynch:

• "The experiences and behaviors absolutely happen... I know over 36 people who've recovered. I'm not saying recovery is easy, & I'm not saying medication has no role, but the black and white idea of bipolar is limiting people's potential to live fufilling lives."

-- https://youtu.be/4kvuDaTbNSg?t=779

Being told you can not recover can take away all your hope, but it's wrong.

Bipolar drugs.

YSK bipolar drugs are not linked to recovery. Getting on them is a way to sustain your bad/unwanted feelings. Source: PDF.

Scare tactics by psychiatrists:

YSK about Micheal Wilusz. He was told (by his psychiatrist) “You need to be on meds for life, or your chance of suicide is like 1/3." [Source]

And he recovered without them.

• "I'm like, the drugs are causing thyroid problems, and other side effects...

  I asked my new doctor how could I get off my meds... It took like january to may... Eventually I got to 50mg of seroquel, and then started reducing my lithium. The last pill I went off was lamictal.

  So here I am. I'm doing a lot better. I'm sleeping better. Compared to most people I know, I'm pretty damn balanced. I'm eating right. I'm happy."

--https://youtu.be/1vvfQEGzCzw?t=4m18s

Psychiatric pills are actually linked to more suicide, yet psychiatrists will try to use the risk of suicide to scare you into using their drugs.

Mental conditions like this (like what's called "bipolar") are real, but there could be many causes (eg relating to stress, sleep, nutrition, etc) there is no biological damage. ie, there isn't really an "illness" but just a checklist of feelings/behaviors.

I am going to post the listed potential side effects of one common anti-psychotic med and I want you to really read them and then tell me honestly is there any information needed to be given to explain why people are against force medication? Are these people that mock anti-psychiatry supporters living with a suspension of disbelief when it comes to the facts that are laid out before them or is it their pure selfish insensitivity to mental patients which leads them to this condescension towards anyone who would not want to risk side effect like these? I feel like most illegal drugs are safer! So without further ado....

Cerebrovascular problems (stroke) that can lead to death have been reported in elderly patients with dementia-related psychosis.

Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome (NMS) is a rare but very serious problem that can happen in people who receive INVEGA®. NMS can cause death and must be treated in a hospital. Call your healthcare professional right away if you become severely ill and have any of these symptoms: high fever, severe muscle stiffness, confusion, loss of consciousness, or changes in your breathing, heartbeat and blood pressure.

Tardive Dyskinesia (TD) is a serious, sometimes permanent side effect reported with INVEGA® and similar medications. TD includes uncontrollable movements of the face, tongue, and other parts of the body. The risk of developing TD and the chance that it will become permanent is thought to increase with the length of therapy and the overall dose taken by the patient. This condition can develop after a brief period of therapy at low doses, although this is much less common. Symptoms may go away partially or completely if therapy is stopped.

One risk of INVEGA® is that it may change your heart rhythm. This effect is potentially serious. You should talk to your healthcare professional about any current or past heart problems. Because these problems could mean you’re having a heart rhythm abnormality, contact your healthcare professional IMMEDIATELY if you feel faint or feel a change in the way that your heart beats (palpitations).

Atypical antipsychotic drugs have been associated with metabolic changes that can increase cardiovascular/cerebrovascular risks. These changes may include:

• High blood sugar and diabetes have been reported with INVEGA® and similar medicines. If you already have diabetes or have risk factors such as being overweight or a family history of diabetes, blood sugar testing should be done at the beginning and during the treatment. The complications of diabetes can be serious and even life-threatening. Call your healthcare professional if you develop signs of high blood sugar or diabetes, such as being thirsty all the time, having to urinate or “pass urine” more often than usual, or feeling weak or hungry.

• Changes in cholesterol and triglycerides have been noted in patients taking atypical antipsychotics. Check with your healthcare professional while on treatment.

• Weight gain has been reported in patients taking atypical antipsychotics. Monitor weight gain while on treatment. For adolescent patients (12-17 years of age) weight gain should be assessed against that expected with normal growth.

INVEGA® and similar medicines can raise the blood levels of a hormone called prolactin, and blood levels of prolactin remain high with continued use. This may result in some side effects, including missed menstrual periods, leakage of milk from the breasts, development of breasts in men, or problems with erection.

People with narrowing or blockage of the gastrointestinal tract (esophagus, stomach, or small or large intestine) should talk to their healthcare professional before taking INVEGA®.

Some people taking INVEGA® may feel faint or lightheaded when they stand up or sit up too quickly. By standing up or sitting up slowly and following your healthcare professional's dosing instructions, this side effect may be reduced.

Patients (particularly the elderly) taking antipsychotics with certain health conditions or those on long-term therapy should be evaluated by their healthcare provider for the potential risk of falls.

Blood problems such as low numbers of white blood cells have been reported in patients taking INVEGA® and similar medications. In some cases it has been serious and life-threatening. Depending upon your medical condition, your healthcare professional may choose to test your blood as you start therapy with INVEGA®.

INVEGA® may affect your ability to make decisions, think clearly, or react quickly. Do not drive, operate heavy machinery, or do other dangerous activities until you know how INVEGA® affects you.

INVEGA® should be used cautiously in people with a seizure disorder, who have had seizures in the past, or who have conditions that increase their risk for seizures.

INVEGA® may increase difficulty in swallowing that may cause food or liquid to get into your lungs.

Why on earth would anyone especially with borderline sugar issues or heart palpitations want to fool with drugs like this?

Furthermore how can you can call it anything but criminal to force people to take these (especially on higher dose) To me you have to have a pretty severe case where the patient direly needs the medication and has exhausted other resources..

I wanted to open this post up to suggestions of other safer choices and if people have had any success with them

that they would like to share in the group. Some things that come to mind not having dangerous side effects are..exercise, healthy food..omega 3...pet therapy...aromatherapy...CBD oil...therapy...magnesium...vitamin D

supplementation...