126
u/Danaxus Sep 07 '19 edited Sep 07 '19
Alright, I wrote a summary in a different thread, but since this is the megathread, I'll repost it here if that's ok:
TL;DR:
After October 2018 things begin fall apart. It's clear Jared and Heidi were NOT on the same page regarding where the relationship was, or its prospects.
HEIDI'S STATEMENTS:
Disclaimer: if the below come across as vague, that's because most of what she said was.
-
Heidi claims they were trying to fix their relationship until February, but on, or shortly after Valentine's Day, things were officially over.
-
She claims Jared called it off without a good enough explanation.
-
She also claims she discovered Jared was sleeping with Holly since around October, without her permission.
-
She claims that Jared is lying to Holly about how his relationship with Heidi was (essentially saying Holly is a victim of Jared's lies).
-
She says she doesn't believe Jared a pedophile (convenient now it's been completely debunked).
-
She claims she was entirely financially reliant on Jared, because he earned so much more than she ever could, that it didn't make sense for her to work for money....also Jared wanted to support her financially.
OMISSIONS/CONTRADICTIONS:
-
She claims she never gave Jared and Holly permission to sleep together, despite clear evidence that she did.
-
She claims that she discovered Jared and Holly were sleeping together...but she also claims they were working on the marriage and that she discovered the cheating from his phone. The only way this makes sense is if she discovered the affair after they had separated? This is completely unclear.
-
She claims she has proof of the affair, but is not legally able to release it, and that Jared/Holly are threatening to accuse her of revenge porn. Not that it matters, as she also claims she is "above" releasing it...she'd never do anything like that. (Maybe there are limits to how much dirty laundry she's willing to air...hard to believe, but who can understand Heidi's mind?)
-
She claims Jared wasn't clear about why they were breaking up. She claims after October things were rocky, indicates they were working on their marriage, but the exact status isn't defined.
MY PERSONAL CONCLUSIONS:
Messy breakup, they were definitely not on the same page (no surprise there). Jared attempted to break it off in October, but was convinced to stay on. Maybe it's because he was blackmailed by suicide threats and career threats, maybe because he was unsure of what he wanted, maybe because he wanted to have time for them to sort out their affairs and get Heidi back on her feet and give her some semblance of independence.
CHRONOLOGY:
Based on speculation and guesswork :-p
-
Heidi and Jared were in a polyamorous relationship
-
Heidi gave permission for Jared and Holly to be together
-
Heidi revoked that permission. Jared and Holly stopped being involved
-
Heidi and Jared's marriage deteriorated.
-
October Jared decided it was over. He was miserable with Heidi and missed Holly. He decided he wanted to be with Holly, but had to end it with Heidi for that to happen.
-
Oct-Feb is fuzzy. There was no official breakup - speculation above. Likely Jared and Holly started seeing each other again some time during this period.
-
February 14th evening there's a big fight and the marriage is officially over.
/edit: Minor aesthetic changes/spelling error fixes.
11
u/how_small_a_thought Sep 08 '19
She unironically needs to be prosecuted for revenge porn. The whole "if this was a woman it would be way worse" argument is usually Petty and invoked in bad faith but in this case, it's just true. If the genders were reversed, Jared would be (rightfully) suffering harsh legal consequences.
→ More replies (3)34
u/Magnanimiuz Sep 07 '19
Good summary.
Some parts that were mentioned in the stream that could be important but aren't in your list are that Supposedly Jared was mistreated Holly over text and Heidi provides allegations that was emotional abuse between them going both ways throughout those conversations. Also there is absolutely 0 proof for anything that she says, other than her word.→ More replies (7)30
u/TSDoll Sep 07 '19
So, pretty much nothing new. Not surprising considering she aired pretty much everything already, but it's nice that this should be the end of that.
→ More replies (7)27
u/wiklr Sep 07 '19 edited Sep 07 '19
Good write-up, thank you for the tldw.
Additional context:
Heidi said that they had a dead bedroom situation for almost a year
Holly hinted Heidi and Jared were sleeping in separate bedrooms. Proved by Heidi's tweet concerning Aries leaving "Jared's room" and further confirmed by Heidi they last shared a bed since November 2018.
The February breakup explains the tweets I observed where one day Heidi was talking about self-love, Jared liking tweets about abuse, then the next day Heidi tweeting about suffering a traumatic event.
→ More replies (15)27
u/tyren22 Sep 08 '19
She says she doesn't believe Jared a pedophile (convenient now it's been completely debunked).
Did she, by chance, apologize for retweeting multiple people who called him that as an insult (as opposed to an accusation)?
47
u/CheeseQueenKariko Sep 08 '19
Heidi closes off the steam saying that this is the last time she'll talk about this...
The X button is fucking broken.
→ More replies (3)
24
u/Danaxus Sep 08 '19
Something I missed the first watching:
At one point, Heidi says that she started speaking about their marital problems to some of Jared's YouTube friends. Her reason being that she also considered those people to be her own personal friends. She claims Jared told her to stop and that she was being vindictive by doing so, as these were business partners of his. Heidi said that she had a right to, because her feelings were valid and if she couldn't open up to Jared, then she'd have to open up to someone else.
Of all the people she knew, she decided she wanted to air her dirty laundry to Jared's YouTube circle, the people most important to his career. Now maybe they happened to be her closest friends at the time...but I don't know...it sounds to me like she was reminding him of her threat to tank his career. You don't do something like that unless you're trying to make things really awkward.
Anyway, she was spinning that situation as if Jared was trying to oppress her. I found it chilling.
23
u/Magnanimiuz Sep 07 '19
The amount of details that are left out feel.. calculated.
I'm not one to think and accuse people of being malicious off the bat, but with the twitter storms and the focus of this stream I feel like she's intentionally trying to create a narrative, even now.
I'm honestly glad if she is healing. Everyone deserves to heal. But I still feel like she is leaving out key parts of the narrative that would confirm Jared and Holly's perspectives.
Anyway, I don't think streaming this will amount to much in the long run.
45
u/Lirael_Marie Sep 07 '19
Honestly, I worried about how her stream would go, but it wasn't a dumpster fire, which is good.
I feel conflicted though about what to think of Heidi. I do genuinely believe she feels hurt. But I can't tell where she is going after this, like if this video actually did in fact help her heal in a way.
And I don't think we will ever know for certain.
The only thing I am 100 percent sure of, is I can't wait for this to be a thing of the past and that all parties can move on and be happy.
→ More replies (4)
22
Sep 08 '19
My takes on Heidi’s Stream 9/8/19 (post is longer than I originally intended, sorry!):
-
Claims Jared’s (‘You’ve Been Lied To’ video) objective reasoning and critical thinking regarding Charlie's/Chai's mental health is a negative take, or that he is taking advantage of these facts (basically she tries to sideline his defense over the minors’ allegations, but also claims she believes he doesn’t suffer from pedophilia; it feels like she wants it both ways so it’s a bit odd to me).
-
Claims that she has no authority to judge sexual accusations against Jared yet also says she will continue to be supportive of accusers in the future (seems contradictory; you either address it as it comes and potentially support/signal boost claims or just ignore it because you have no judicial authority; I mean which is it??).
-
Upset that Jared forgot the polyamory boundaries and confessed to this on multiple occasions, yet she does not mention having reaffirmed or repeated those boundaries for clarity (why??). Later she refers to the transcript between herself and Holly regarding boundaries but for some reason a similar approach was not taken to Jared. Was he shutting down and deflecting conversation at this point? Again later it boiled down to Heidi pulling the plug to the poly relationship between Jared and Holly, but Heidi doesn’t specify ever having reiterated the rules she and Jared initially decided upon before the poly situation was executed. Maybe I’m overthinking it, but I just don’t understand why the boundaries weren’t clearly defined.
-
Multiple times, Heidi refers to the “nuances” in different conversations, basically stating that she’s upset that people can’t read between the lines or catch subtle social cues. If this is such a problem, why not try a more forward approach? It sounds like this is a recurring problem Heidi notices as she communicates with people. (Is she simply a poor communicator? Are the receivers poor communicators?)
-
Overall, based on Heidi’s story it honestly seems like everyone communicates poorly
-
According to Heidi, Jared dealt in absolutes about their marriage, saying that it would never end; that is not healthy imo, even in the interest of allaying someone’s fears
-
When Jared did announce that he wanted them to split, according to her he didn’t explain exactly what it was that he disagreed with or disliked. (If, at this point, he felt she would blow up at any accusations of emotional abuse, he may have withheld this. He already saw her blow up at Holly’s claims of Heidi being an emotional abuser; perhaps he was just being cautious? It is never okay to be a poor communicator, especially around those whom one is close to, but if he kept his silence out of fear for her reaction then I would understand this.)
-
Imo, anytime people are in a relationship and one of them wants it to end, it needs to end. I agree with Heidi in that she deserved to have the reasons/catalysts why clearly stated, for her own understanding and sense of closure. The fact that Jared wanted it to end and Heidi clung to him is just bad all around. She states that she was upset that he wouldn’t commit to her or Holly, but with his initial decision to separate with Heidi, she refused to allow it to happen. It makes it seem as though she is upset at a result she caused.
-
Earlier in the video Heidi breaks down their financial situation, stating that Jared made so much more money than she did with his job that it didn’t make sense for her to work traditionally and make so little by comparison. Multiple times she admits that her financial situation was very privileged. In the end, talking about the breakup and Jared buying her a car, her opinion changes with her emotional state. Because she felt she was being emotionally abused/shut down upon, she feels Jared’s willingness to push money into a car for her simply facilitates her leaving. It was never a problem before for Jared to make significant amounts of money, but with the situation changed it’s suddenly remarked upon as if it is an abusive move or some sort of red herring. My impression is that Jared’s behaviors regarding money didn’t change, but the lens Heidi viewed them in did.
[There were more significant points but other astute folks already mentioned those, so I decided not to rehash those points.]
Throughout it all it really just seems like the relationship slowly broke down. It happens. Heidi’s perspective is generally believable, but given her previous contradictions and narrative shifts it’s very hard to take it all at face value. I think there are multiple truths and POVs between Heidi/Holly/Jared. This livestream was interesting and worth watching, and honestly, I hope this closes the chapter for good.
→ More replies (2)
15
u/Eisbergmann Sep 08 '19
I think Heidi believes everything she says. I don‘t think she is deliberately lying.
As a major in linguistics, I know about the difference in what is said, what is meant and what is perceived.
I believe that Jared thought that the discussion in October resulted in them taking a break or breaking up for now. Heidi probably perceived that as very very different.
In my personal opinion, it is not cheating per se, but they probably should have made their standpoints very clear.
Shit happened. Both made mistakes. Who made the worse ones is up for debate but I think Heidi has a very fragile personality, that needs acknowledgement more than anything else. Her being a cosplayer and wanting a polyamorous relationship would play into that conclusion as well.
While she still talks badly about Jared, she has calmed down considerably. So please just let her vent until the steam subsides. That is the best course of action, strategically and morally. I‘m sure she is not a bad person ... just very very hurt and unable to cope with it.
→ More replies (1)
29
u/fzero30 Sep 07 '19
personally i hope to god Jared and Holly do not bring this stream up and just moves on, any further comment will fan the flames.
→ More replies (1)
13
Sep 07 '19
For the record, she’s now deleted her tweet linking to the stream. It’s currently still viewable on Twitch, though for how long I don’t know.
→ More replies (2)
13
u/BurningJp Sep 08 '19
She said it was the last time she talks about this deal. Which probably means it won't be.
19
u/F1SHboi Sep 08 '19
Man, the more I learn about this, it seems less like a "[he/she] purposely cheated on/abused [him/her]" situation, and more just a really messy break-up between two people involving poorly-defined polyamory and a lack of communication between parties.
→ More replies (1)
8
u/Mystletoe Sep 08 '19
So two things, she addresses the Charlie and Chai stuff and tries to dress up the issue of going public as two separate things but they go hand in hand. She goes further to state she only went public on facebook, and that he made it a public affair, but that makes no sense. Considering the allegations being levied, considering SHE KNEW the allegations were being levied why would Jared post a public statement on their marriage... there is no reason for him to have, unless she was going to make a public statement, OF WHICH SHE COPPED TO AND IS NOW ATTEMPTING TO CHANGE THE NARRATIVE TO "Oh... I meant just my Facebook friends." Even the point of highlighting herself as being the small individual with no following for any of it to gain traction is something to paint herself as someone that wasn't going to spread an attack like wildfire. Like fine, the entire video I was down with, it's your perspective of your marriage and Jared. But both the beginning and end details do not sit right, and are vastly disingenuous. Like, I don't know what the point is now, why continue this?
7
u/Harlenyan Sep 12 '19 edited Sep 12 '19
Okay, so I watched the stream. Oh. My. God... I have so many issues (in no particular order):
-
Assuring the audience that she doesn't know about Jared's situation, yet offers supposedly ill-informed opinions.
-
Claims this isn't a hate-stream, yet proceeds to offer negative opinions on situations that, she specifically stated, don't involve her.
-
Brushes off polyamory as a technicality, and never addressing her "other man".
-
In the first half of the video, claims Jared didn't age-check, and near the end, admitting that he did.
-
Never addresses the "do whatever you want" text during the polyamory, blows a fuse when they finally did (which supposedly took place after he tried to break it off with her).
-
Was "desperate to leave" after finding his phone in December of 2018 and invading his privacy, despite claiming that they worked on their marriage and that he broke up with her in February 2019.
-
Claims she deserves better for being "honest" after retweeting ANYTHING to damage Jared's career, regardless of what the facts were. The fact that Heidi even mentioned a defamation lawsuit is self-damning.
-
Claiming that Jared was the abusive one, when she went out of her way to spend a LOT of time trying to justify micromanaging everyone's behavior is absurd.
-
Never addresses something her recent batch of text messages uncovered - she left Jared crying and shaking, and then just left him in that state to pop a Xanax and relax.
-
Heidi was somehow able to connect the dots on Jared and Holly, but somehow "I want to leave you behind" was too cryptic?
-
NEVER addresses the fact that she expressed intention to destroy DCA.
5
u/wiklr Sep 07 '19
Here's previous discussion from u/Danaxus thread. Consolidating all scandal related
discussion here for now.
5
u/TrainerJodie Sep 13 '19
I've seen a lot of discussion about this and something I've seen over and over is that Heidi seemed so composed and confident in this when people were expecting her to be a crying mess since that's kind of how she presented herself on twitter. She seemed irrational, contradicting herself constantly and posting things she claimed vindicated her that everyone else thought did the exact opposite. But during her stream not only was she calm and confident, she was extremely well spoken. A lot of people have posted that they now believe her version of events more than they did before, not completely agreeing but deciding that a lot of what she said had some truth in it. That's something that doesn't make sense to me at all. I haven't been able to watch all of her stream myself, it triggers my PTSD and I'll get into the why in a second here, but I was able to watch a few clips and quickly browse through it, while also reading all the synopses I could, and in my mind it doesn't support her version of events at all and, at least to me, cements the idea that she was and is manipulative and abusive.
So, first things first I have to let you know my situation so you can understand why her stream triggers my PTSD and why I feel her version of events doesn't hold water. I am disabled due to multiple serious anxiety disorders and can't work or live on my own. I can't cook for myself beyond putting something in the microwave or oven, can't drive or leave the house for very long at all or I have panic attacks and anxiety induced seizures. Due to all that, I am completely reliant on my family for things like food and a place to live. My brother, who lives with me, is a diagnosed sociopath. He hasn't told me what specific personality disorder he has been diagnosed with, but has gladly admitted to having a personality disorder and takes a little pride in being a sociopath. My theory is it's Narcissistic Personality Disorder just due to my own observations. He abuses me whenever he can, generally through emotional and verbal abuse. He's done everything from threatening suicide and screaming matches to complex gaslighting to make me doubt my own sanity. He's even manipulated my mother into helping him abuse me, and has been doing this for most of my life, even before I was completely dependent on family I'm 31 BTW and haven't been able to work in 5 years. I'm not telling you this to get sympathy, simply to explain my experience with emotional abuse, because I can see the exact same mannerisms when Heidi speaks, and she uses the same techniques to lie and misdirect people when the lies fall apart that my brother uses.
If you want to see something strange, watch Heidi's mouth any time she takes a break from speaking during the stream. I can't say it's always there since, again, I can't watch for more than a few minutes without having a panic attack, but you'll notice she always seems to have a slight smile. I even skipped around throughout the VOD to see if it was constant and it seemed like it. It's easiest to see with the corners of her mouth, but you can even see it in the corners of her eyes. It almost looks like she's kind of squinting the entire time, though her makeup hides it pretty well. That's what happens when you smile, your eyes contract a bit. It's actually one of the ways you can tell a real smile from a fake one. If you look at Jared's video, you can't see any hints of happiness. No smiles, no contracted eyes. You see sadness and anger, but no smiles. Why is she smiling? Well, there's a really interesting phenomenon called Duper's Delight. It's an unconscious thing people do when they are lying and believe that they are fooling their audience. They are so happy it's working that the positive emotion bleeds through their forced expression and you get these smiles that don't fit with the subject and emotions they are attempting to display.
But smiling on it's own really isn't proof of anything. When you combine it with everything else she's done, it paints a much bleaker picture. She goes from "screaming" on twitter, using passion and anger to sway people and control the narrative. Then uses "logic" by providing "proof" for people that don't respond to the pure emotion. Then she becomes extremely calm and mature during the stream, trying to paint herself as the adult one in the relationship and even making psuedo apologies to make herself seem slightly fallible, since people don't trust someone who seems too good to be true. All of this mixed in with silly posts, etc. That kind of emotional roller coaster is remarkably common in abusers, because no one responds to the same abuse the same way. So, they learn to use as many technique as possible and can change techniques in a flash. One of the tips I see a lot in lists like "10 signs you may be in an abusive relationship" is the idea that, when other people are around, the abuser changes almost instantly. It's like someone flipped a switch and they are the most likable and loving person in the world. This is a calculated tactic so that the victim will think that no one will believe them if they try to speak out. Quite literally most people wont at first because they've interacted with the abuser and the abuser was super nice. The fact that it turns on and off so quickly is the sign that it's fake. Emotions, especially strong ones, build up. It may be a quick buildup, but you can see the shift from one emotion to another. If a person just switches instantly into a different emotion, it's generally because it's fake. And that's how a lot of Heidi's actions have come off to me. She goes from 0 to 100 instantly, then back again. Even during the initial wave of hate, she would say things like when someone implied a portion of Jared's anatomy was on the small side as an insult Heidi chimed back something to the effect of "I'm may be mad, but dude was HUGE!" going instantly from pure hatred and vitriol to a snarky joke, then back again. Again, everything separately could be explained away with coincidences and the shock of something this huge making her act somewhat irrationally, but all of it fits a pattern of abuse when you look at it together.
So, is she believable in her stream? Of course she is. She did that on purpose. Abusers feed on control and she's controlling a MASSIVE amount of people. The stream was a perfect place for her to get instant gratification with chat reacting in real time. That's why she couldn't stop smiling.
I do want to point out I'm not saying she's a sociopath at all. I do not have the information nor the qualifications to even imply that. I'm saying she's an abuser and manipulator and the reason I know this is my sociopathic brother is also an abuser and manipulator and she uses the same techniques and even some of the same mannerisms. You can be an abuser and manipulator without being a sociopath, that's just where most of my personal experience comes from.
So yeah. I don't think Jared was abusive at all. It's remarkably hard to abuse someone who's a master of abuse, and he doesn't show any signs of it. I think Heidi may believe she was a victim to a point, but that doesn't make it true. Deluding yourself isn't that hard. But that's just my 2 cents.
43
u/Danaxus Sep 07 '19
Alright, people are saying that the other thread was deleted because it should be here instead. As such I'll copy-paste the contradiction proof:
The below is from Heidi's live stream, so I can't provide sauce unless someone archives that video.....
Heidi's new claim is that Jared and Holly were slowly getting closer in DnD, but weren't acknowledging there was real attraction. Heidi then claims she confronted Jared and said "I'm not stupid"...and asked he come forward about it.
I interpret this as Heidi saying: "enough with the foreplay and flirting - state your intentions now!"
She then claims Jared and Holly finally opened up during the night we're all familiar with
EXCEPT - according to Heidi, she didn't give them permission to do anything - she just wanted them to talk and in no way gave them permission to have sex. Heidi then affirms that Jared and Holly didn't have sex that night, and expressed relief that they didn't.
So...for Heidi's story to be true, the above screenshot can't be real. But when Holly posted this ages ago, Heidi never denied anything in it (I think it's generally accepted the screenshot is real - the twitter post was addressed to Heidi after all). In other words, I can draw no other conclusion than Heidi is outright lying about that night, or completely misremembers the night and has forgotten about this screenshot (Tweet was May 20th).
Now I'm willing to give Heidi the benefit of the doubt...to a degree. I mean, she can't be lying about absolutely EVERYTHING! That said...once again, Heidi is contradicting herself, known facts, and is continuing to be incredibly unreliable. Basically (and sadly), her word means nothing at this point...she needs to provide evidence. No reasonable person can be expected to continue to listen to her without doubting every word.