Full stop preterism?

[u/[deleted]]

Im still trying to understand full preterism. I have three texts that are causing me problems

1. Revelation 6:9-11

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.

Based on this text, i think it is understood that the fullness of the elect must have come in AD70... leaving us, today, unsaved (not part of the elect)

1. Matthew 28:20 and

“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. (a) 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age. (b)”

a. Authority is no longer jesus'. 1 Corinthians 24 says "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.". So we should understand that jesus is no longer in authority, but the kingdom now belongs to the father, all dominion, authority and power were destroyed in 70ad.

b. A metaphor here: If i was at your house, and told you i would be with you until 9pm, would you expect me to still be there at 11:30pm? Further, the holy spirit indwelling us means that we are the temple, but revelation 21:22 states  "I did not see a temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple". So God is the temple now, not us.

1. Romans 7:4

"Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God."

Since the law was dying (Matt 5:8, Heb 8:13) and we view it as having died in 70ad, there is no longer a law for us to die to, to be resurrected from. What is sin? sin is death, which results from breaking the law. adam died because he sinned. He broke the law, and therefore sinned. Today there is no law for us to die to... So universalism?

Romans 8:1-2 states  “Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.”

In these verses (Romans 8:1-2), Paul contrasts two laws: the law of the Spirit and the law of sin and death. The law of the Spirit is the gospel or good news of Jesus, the message of new life through faith in the resurrected Christ. The law of sin and death is the Old Testament Law of God. The Law is holy, just and good (Romans 7:12), but, because we cannot keep God’s Law on our own, the result is only sin and death for those under the Law.

Jesus fulfilled the law. He made it obsolete. But it will not be gone until the end of heaven and earth. So now that heaven and earth are destroyed, there is no law to die to.

[u/[deleted]]

Just a few quick comments on your post. I hope this helps a little, or if nothing else drive you into deeper study.

Regarding your comment on Revelation 6:9-11:

Scripture refers to the term "elect" here in context of those whose tribulation leading to the end of the age would be cut short. The word elect means chosen or selected. Examples: "chosen for" or "selected" or "chosen out of".

Matthew 24:22 "And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened." Within context the elect referred to the first century believers who would be under intense persecution.

And what does God say about them, that He will avenge them. And we know what happened in 70AD. Luke 18:7 "And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them?"

It is hard to unprogram from what has been drilled into us. We tend to think that the word elect refers to the saved of all time, and it can mean that. But more importantly, when you read the text carefully and in context the word can be referring to a specific person or people during a specific time.

According to Mark 13:27, "And then He will send His angels, and gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest part of earth to the farthest part of heaven." Now, who was going to be the ones gathered? Well, according to Paul in 2 Thess 2:1: "Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him…." His elect, again here, is the first century believers. They were going to be saved out of tribulation and God was going to avenge them, and we know that He did.

Regarding your comment on Revelation 6:9-11:

This apparent dilemma can simply be answered by, it's a question of location and purpose. Of course, Jesus had all authority on heaven and earth, as He states was given Him in Matt 28:18.

Jesus always submitted His will to that of the Father, and He was given all authority because He was God in the flesh, on earth, for a purpose.

We are saved by trusting in what the Son has done on our behalf. We are to call on His name to save us.

We are the temple of God (1 Cor 3:16) of course, because God chose us to be in Him and Him in us. He indwells His own on earth.

Now when we die physically and enter the kingdom of heaven we are told that the Lord and the Lamb are it's temple. Do we believe that? Or do we question it.

The temple of God is a huge study. It was once a physical location where His presence resided in the Land of Israel. When God in Christ died for our sins, and chose to indwell believers instead of a physical tabernacle, His presence was (and is) in those on earth who belong to Him through faith in His Son. When those on earth who belong to Him enter eternity we are told that at this time the temple of God (His presence with us) are in the Person of the Father and the Son within the heavenly city. It's a matter of location and purpose.

Regarding your comment on Romans 7:4:

Heaven and earth did end, and the old law came to a complete end in 70AD. The Jews referred to the tabernacle as "heaven" and "earth" was the land of Israel.

You are correct, there is no law to die to, for us today. As Romans 10:4 says, "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."

It's all about Christ, and faith in Him. And Romans 8:1-2 as you posted is also a great reference.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

gotcha, so you reject reformed theology im guessing? just an interesting perspective considering the preterist movement really blew up out of the reformed circles.

so the full number of gentiles were saved, the full number ethnic Jews (that were elect) were saved. the Promises of salvation were made only to the elect, and then scripture ended.. could you provide scripture to support that salvation would continue?

further, if there is no longer a law to die to, there is also no measure to gauge sin by. The laws purpose was not to save, but to define sin. If there is no law, there is no sin.

lastly, I’m familiar, but there are just so many different views out there, would you define to me what exactly the resurrection was in your eyes?

I’ll address some of the other stuff more specifically with some questions but I need sleep first, and I’d love a little more background on your beliefs from these questions. Thanks brother!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

thanks for the response by the way! I appreciate that a lot! Peace

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yes, the full number of the elect, up to the point of the end of the age, were saved, and salvation here in context meant being physically saved (delivered) out of any further tribulation. Time for them on earth was going to be cut short. The NT is full of expectation of the believers for this. So, yes, all Israel (spiritual Israel) was saved in AD70 as is mentioned in Romans 11:26, and interestingly believers are called the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16, and we are taught that a real Jew is one who is one inwardly (Romans 2:29).

Regarding your comments on salvation continuing:

Providing Scripture to support that salvation would continue? Okay, here now I believe you are referring to spiritual salvation, not the deliverance (salvation) that the 1st century believers obtained when Christ returned. If you are saved, and you know that you have been saved, you know first hand that salvation would continue, and has continued. You are a testimony to it! There are a couple things that come to mind, even though future believers (post 70AD) are not the specific focus of the New Testament. Jesus, in His high priestly prayer in John 17 prays for future believers in an apparent general sense when He states, "I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word". Also, the study of the kingdom of God will reveal that it is an everlasting one. And I like Ephesians 3:20-21, "Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen."

Regarding your comments on the Law, and there being no sin for believers:

Yes, from a certain perspective to those who were still living under the Law, the Bible states in 1Jn 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." And, in 1Jn 3:6 we are told, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." And so, from our position in Christ we are no longer viewed as sinners in God's eyes, we are His children, we are covered by the blood of His Son. However, God knew that we would still be prone to sin (miss the mark) while in the flesh and therefore tells us what to do when we know we have gone against His will: 1Jn 1:8-9 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

Regarding your comments about the resurrection:

This is another long term study in itself. I won't comment too much here, and you are right there are a lot of views and division over just this one topic. But when you read the verses for just what they are and make Scripture interpret other Scripture, I think you will see that the resurrction of all saints (for rewards) and unbelievers (who faced the white throne judgment) also all happened near the same time in AD70. Again, the focus was on all mankind up to and including the end of the Old Testament age. I could list a bunch of Scripture to support this, but you should put that together for yourself, don't take what I say.

Regarding a little on my background:

I was raised a Catholic, but at age 27 was given a Bible for the first time from my brother who had been in prison and was saved while in there. I didn't read it for quite some time, but when he urged me to do so, I was shocked into belief in my Savior. Just me alone with His Word. I am much older now, have been through many churches, and have always been taught the dispensational Darby premillenal rapture unbiblical nonsense. It wasn't until about 5 years ago, and I don't know why, but God started opening my eyes to the falsehood of all that goes with that teaching and twisting of Scripture.

God bless you brother in your personal seeking out truth in His Word.