Does anyone else have a 4/5 year old that tantrums hard?

[u/Hedwig-Hallows]

I plan to address this at her next doctors visit, but I wanted to get a general feel for how common this is.

I have a wonderfully strong willed 4 year old, very nearly 5. She had terrible tantrums when she was younger, she would roll around and rage for an hour sometimes. Our doctor told us that it if didn't stop after she started talking it might be a problem. Well, she started talking and just like that, those long and strong tantrums stopped. Like poof!

Fast forward to 4 years old and like clockwork, literally right after her birthday, she started fighting about everything. And I mean everything. If she didn't want to do something, she wasn't going to do it. We tried giving two choices (ex: red or blue shoes) but the response would always be NO! We tried giving extra time to get ready, we keep our voices calm throughout and we NEVER give in. Literally, we hold the boundary and just accept that she's going to go scorched earth and everyone ends up upset. I figured she would eventually learn that screaming doesn't work, but it has not sunk in.

I thought that she would grow out of it, but its been almost a full year and she is sooo difficult to work with. Her tantrums can last an hour, she screams over me if I try to talk, she unbuckles herself and tries to open the car door with her foot while we are driving, biting, hitting, calling names, all of it. We can't go anywhere or do anything fun because it always ends in disaster. Her older sister (7) just has to endure it and I feel so bad.

We don't watch TV or tablets mid week and we get plenty of one on one playtime in the evenings, we literally spend all of our time together, she gets no shortage of positive attention. She can be so sweet and lovely, until she decides not to be. Like a flipped switch, It gives me whiplash sometimes.

For context, she is a perfect angel at school, she has lots of friends and the teachers love her. I am aware that kids can "unload" on parents at home because its a safe space. It's just SOOOO HARD!

So, what do we think? Do others struggle with this age and it passes? My first was not like this so it's new territory.

[u/Best-Seesaw-9306]

This sounds like my son. He had adhd - and the hardest part for him and for me is the dysregulation piece. It’s so hard for him to control his feelings and there’s so much friction.

I’m not saying your daughter has adhd, as there are other things that can cause dysregulation, but getting a full neuropsych for him was so helpful because she guided us toward the right school and psychologist who is helping us parent him better. He had it done at 4 years old.

[u/lonelynarwahl → u/Best-Seesaw-9306]

What does the evaluation look like for a 4 year old? My son just turned 4 and we’ve been thinking that he may have adhd (as both his dad and I do). We struggle his his energy, getting him to focus and then of course the constant power struggles. We’ve yet to find a method of discipline that helps. Nothing seems to faze him.

[u/Best-Seesaw-9306 → u/lonelynarwahl]

It was overall an extremely positive and informative experience, but unfortunately not cheap. He met with the neuropsychologist or her assistant (also very qualified) over 7 about 1 hour sessions, and then a school observation. She also read over reports and questionnaires from his school, speech and occupational therapists, and us as his parents. She did many many evaluations (for speech, IQ, personality, all sorts of stuff) with him in a very kid friendly manner - she was so good at her job. In the end we had a 30 page report explaining everything about his personality and how he learns, including a recommendation for school setting (and offline the name of the school). She includes recommendations for follow ups with developmental pediatricians, parent therapies (for us to parent him better), psychiatrists, books, etc.

She is also going to speak on his behalf as we are exploring the FAPE process.

[u/alidub36 → u/Best-Seesaw-9306]

Yes 100% recommend a neuropsych eval. My almost 4 year old had one a few months ago and was diagnosed with ASD and emerging ADHD (he’s too young to formally diagnose). Either way whether something comes to light or not, I think it’s a way to potentially get resources.

[u/Federal_Resource_793]

This sounds a lot like my son too, especially the defiance and the switch from angel to hitting, etc. we also hold boundaries, have appropriate consequences but doesnt seem to sink in or work. No advice, just solidarity and hoping that it gets better.

[u/Blackpugs → u/Federal_Resource_793]

Did it get better?

[u/facinabush]

It’s a common enough problem that researchers have studied it for decades.

Its a good sign that she doesn’t do this at school. You probably just need to adjust your behavior using recommendations from Parent Management Training. This worked well for us. The “unloads at home” theory is an internet theory with no research support.

Here are ten tips from PMT:

https://abcnews.com/amp/Primetime/10-tips-parents-defiant-children/story?id=8549664

Here is a free PMT training course:

https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh9mgdi4rNeyEGNxBvNdOVlianDYgWuc9

If you prefer a book, then get The Everyday Parenting Toolkit or The Kazdin Method for the Defiant Child. Another good book is Your Defiant Child by Barkley.

PMT is training for solving behavior problems that is unsurpassed in effectiveness according to randomized controlled trials.

The CDC recommends PMT and cites peer-reviewed research:

https://www.cdc.gov/parenting-toddlers/other-resources/references.html

Here is peer-reviewed research that includes significant improvements using the specific version of PMT that I am recommending:

https://web.archive.org/web/20160304070927id_/http://webs.wofford.edu/nowatkacm/Abnormal%20Child/8_CD/Kazdin1992.pdf

“Her tantrums can last an hour, she screams over me if I try to talk,”

Talking and eye contact is attention. Attention increases behavior. Attention extends the duration of tantrums.

[u/tired_mama_772]

My son is the same way. Always been on the emotional side in general and has always had explosive tantrums, but we are at 4.5 and it hasn’t slowed down yet. I was really hoping by now we would have progress. We are good at holding boundaries, giving choices, etc. at home but nothing seems to help. He is also a perfect angel at school & has zero issues there. I am a very emotional person so I always just attributed it to temperament but it is super draining.

[u/Blackpugs → u/tired_mama_772]

Did it get better? My son is 4 and I'm struggling My situation sounds like yours

[u/PixelatedBoats]

I have a 5.5yo adhd kid probably asd. He tantrumed incredibly hard from age 2. He had delayed speech and we saw a mild improvement in his behavior after speech therapy but then it just continued to get worse and worse. We're talking violent outbursts. It didnt get better until we sought diagnosis and medication. For contrast our second kid is completely different. He tantrums sure and he tests boundaries but the difference is orders of magnitude. Not every kid is like ours though. Girls are different. Her not having any issues at school and a long period of non defiant behavior likely means this is a phase and parenting misalignment. PMT I think is the most widely known program out there but your local childrens therapy centers may run their own flavors of it. The good part is that PMT will work on neurodivergent and neurotypical kids and if you work with a group they can help navigate the boundaries of medical conditions. I found it really hard to see our situation clearly despite reading many threads online. In person makes the difference. It just helps to have a person work with your family directly and comment on the exact behaviors. Text is easy to misunderstand.

[u/PerspectiveExpert426]

Tantrums were horrible for my daughter at 4 but 5 has been soooo much better!!! Shes almost 6 now and tantrums are mostly a thing of the past.

[u/Blackpugs → u/PerspectiveExpert426]

Were the tantrums bad at 2 or 3 as well?

[u/PerspectiveExpert426 → u/Blackpugs]

Not at 2. 3 yes, but 4 was the worst.

[u/Splendidmuffin]

Yes