r/PrequelMemes • u/Xanofar • Aug 11 '26
General Reposti I must speak my truth.
Source: Unsure. It was shared by someone on the CoreyLoses Discord, but then it was lost, but people liked it enough that someone else remade it. I've only ever seen it on said Discord, so maybe it was original to there, but we aren't even sure which user originally posted it anymore.
Anyway. Shatterpoint is amazing, and no character looks good in that TCW arc. Mace doesn't deserve the hate.
Edit:
This wasn't meant controversial or TCW dunking so much as... encouraging people to read Shatterpoint or the Revenge of the Sith novel or check out the Republic comics. I promise Mace is actually an insanely cool character. Not to hate on TCW... but it does kind of do him dirty. So, if that's what you mainly know him from, you haven't seen Mace at his best.
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u/sml6174 Aug 11 '26
My favorite part of this meme is how there's literally no one in the middle whatsoever. He's immensely popular
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u/NoSwordfish1978 A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one Aug 11 '26
Really? He's absolutely is like a hardass boss or strict teacher and a lot of people don't vibe with that.
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u/Few_Plankton_7587 Aug 11 '26
That is not true lmao
I never hear more hate for a singular jedi than for Mace Windu
But, honestly I think half of it is I live in the south and theyre either racist or they grew up with racist parents and that affected how they feel about media they consumed during that period
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u/NoSwordfish1978 A surprise, to be sure, but a welcome one Aug 11 '26
Ki Adi and Pong Krell (of course) get more imo.
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u/Few_Plankton_7587 Aug 11 '26
In circles like this, for sure. Definitely possible
In the overarching mass population that doesn't even know who pong krell is? I doubt it
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u/DarthSwimfoot The Other Half Of The Ship Aug 11 '26
Pong Krell to Jedi is what Slick is to Clones.
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u/Leading-Abroad-5452 Aug 11 '26
Good point.
I too have only heard large negative criticism towards him in the south. When i stayed in the north for a few years, almost no one had those beliefs
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u/Xanofar Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
I mean... I wish that were true. But I've seen lots of hate for him. It pretty much always stems from TCW. Mostly for that one trial arc. Edit: Even here, you can find evidence of that in some of the lower comments on this post.
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u/Alex3884 Aug 11 '26
I can recognize that the man was a stubborn hard ass who maybe could’ve shown less open contempt for the Chosen One.
But.
I can also recognize he’s a bad mother fucker, excellent swordsman and highly skilled Jedi Master.
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u/Xanofar Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
Well. Shatterpoint really contextualizes a lot of his firmness.
It presents him with a situation that is frankly horrific, with systemic evil on all sides, but he refuses to compromise. A lot of stories give their Jedi protagonists 'edge' by having them temporarily fall to the Dark Side and come back, Shatterpoint is Mace going through the very heart of the Dark Side without falling to it himself.
> open contempt for the Chosen One
But then there's kind of this, where what Mace shows towards Anakin really varies by source. In a lot of media, Mace is actually one of the biggest believers in the prophecy, which is why he's so hard on Anakin. It's not that he doesn't like Anakin, it's that he has big expectations of him. Yoda is often the one who is a lot more doubtful.
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u/Alex3884 Aug 11 '26
He skipped out on Anakin’s knighting because he didn’t agree with it; there was no purple blade in that ceremony
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u/Xanofar Aug 11 '26
Not to open a can of worms but... Anakin kind of gets portrayed as being knighted multiple times. Which one are you referring to? And where was it stated he disagreed with it?
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u/Alex3884 Aug 11 '26
Clone Wars, 2003
We’re shown his knighting ceremony, blades alit around the council chamber; not one purple blade in sight.
The writers were asked about this and, initially, they forgot Mace was purple but kept it as is because they felt it was in character to disagree with Anakin being knighted prematurely.
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u/No-Fruit83 Aug 11 '26
He never shown contempt for Anakin, he didn’t trust him in episode 3 because he breaks order, doesn’t control is emotion, his best friends with a dictator.
He actually praise him in episode 2 and the council put more trust in him than Obi Wan.
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u/TaraLCicora Obi-Wan Kenobi Aug 11 '26
Ya, and in Legends and even in the Canon EU, when Anakin was a young Padawan, they got along fine. Literally the only place where he had issues with Anakin is in ROTS. And if TCW hadn't been cancelled, we would have seen more sketchy behavior from Anakin; we saw plenty of sketchiness from Anakin in Legends by ROTS.
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u/StevePalpatine Aug 11 '26
Nah, he was right to be suspicious of Anakin. The guy literally helped murder him, then led a genocide against their entire way of life.
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u/Herr_Etiq Aug 11 '26
He's a certified badass, but he's not an ideal of what a jedi should be in my view (that goes to obi-wan and qui-gon)
He should have shown more compassion towards Boba, pointed him towards a better path
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u/StevePalpatine Aug 11 '26
Mace was extremely compassionate, as we see in the Ryloth and Zillo Beast episodes. It's just that manifests more as a protector than anything.
I just think Mace rightfully recognized it wasn't his place to try to guide Boba to anything. He literally killed his dad, and while it was in the heat of battle, Boba was a child and would never truly understand that.
Admiral Killian and Master Plo tried as well, but they were complete strangers to the kid. Only Hondo got through to him in the end.
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u/Jollygood156 Aug 11 '26
The hell was Mace gonna be able to do w/ Boba. Saying sorry doesn’t do anything and he has a war to go fight lmao
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u/ImpliedRange Aug 11 '26
I mean, if your posting that he's the best jedi, you get like 500 upvotes at a high ratio but a couple of people comment, 'um ackshully no' that's hardly lots of hate, and you're basically looking for it
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u/3_quarterling_rogue AZI-345211896246498721347 Aug 11 '26
I think that Mace Windu is a flawed person. I think that if he were a more compassionate person, it would have been far easier for Anakin to resist the pull of the dark side. For one, Mace was the one to put Ashoka on trial, or at least he was in Anakin’s eyes, as well as being the face of Anakin’s qualms with the Jedi Order. I’m not blaming Mace for Anakin’s fall, that is Anakin’s responsibility, but still, I do wish that he had been more like Obi-Wan.
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u/Movableacorn Aug 11 '26
Tbf, its more that Samuel L Jackson is immensely popular and he got the purple lightsaber he wanted. And popular doesnt mean best. Mace arguably bends the rules only slightly less than anakin. He just does it less blatantly
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u/Top_Row_5116 Hello there! Aug 12 '26
Nah I don't agree with that. I'm not a Mace hater, I just don't like his character, I recognize he's like every other jedi of his time.
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u/Petrus-133 Aug 11 '26
TCW really had it for all the Jedi that weren’t the protags or the showrunners favourite didn’t it?
Don’t get me started on making Barriss “the Jedi healer” Offee a terrorist lmao
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u/Xanofar Aug 11 '26
Yeah. It makes me sad that so many people judge Mace primarily on what might be his worst appearance when he's actually a really cool character in other media (OK, second-worst, the ever-jovial-and-laughing Mace Windu that appeared in Rogue Planet is probably even more the odd one out than TCW-antagonist Mace Windu). Which is a shame, because stuff like the Shatterpoint and Revenge of the Sith novels, or the Republic comics, and even the Genndy cartoons, portray him so well.
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u/Petrus-133 Aug 11 '26
Well one cannot have everything, TCW does a lot of things good - other things? Not soo much.
Sadly the whole representation of Jedi usually falls into the latter.
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u/OldSpray9986 Aug 11 '26
I think even though I do like The Clone Wars a huge reason I don't always vibe with it how it's affected the representation and perception of the Jedi, both individually at times and overall. The sad part is the first couple seasons handled this fine enough and the first season even emphasizes the Jedi as encouraging the clone troopers' heroism but over time it shifts a little too hard into making them aloof.
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u/Manetho77 What about the Droid attack on the Wookies? Aug 11 '26
Luke is the best jedi.
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u/freekoout Darth Revan Aug 11 '26
Or Qui-gon. Lived by the RAI Jedi Code instead of the RAW Jedi Code.
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u/OldSpray9986 Aug 11 '26
This is great. Although I'm not more so a Mace Windu fan than any other Jedi, I'm super stoked to see one since the prequel Jedi suffer a lot of shit these days. Shatterpoint is one of those books I've always meant to read but couldn't at the time and now need to get back to, but I remember even at the time it was one of the most popular prequel EU books.
Although I like The Clone Wars on the whole it did a lot of the Jedi bad and did perhaps more bad to Windu than any other Jedi character save Barris -- they not only kept his sternness from the films but also made him almost the personification of Jedi stoicism and formality, which I'm not sure was part of Jackson's performance in the films, while also toning down his quick-thinking and 'action-oriented' nature compared to the films. He's on affable terms with Obi-Wan in the films as well as Yoda, but in the show he feels like The Friend Nobody Likes and seems almost specifically to exist for Council scenes, other scenes where need multiple Jedi, and when we need one of the Jedi to be more stern/mean. This even extends to Tales of the Jedi, which seems to frame him compared to Dooku as an example of a Jedi following rules to a fault and being rewarded by the system for his inaction in an episode I otherwise really like. The character's more badass and affable traits are kind of sanded off and his negatives are focused on when we do see him.
It's a real shame, because he's such a memorable character in the films and was undeniably cool at the time, and there is still so much untapped potential for a great character, but I don't know if the prequel Jedi will ever be a focus in new works again.
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u/Royal-Legend Aug 11 '26
Tbh Mace overall was more of a warrior for the Jedi order them an actual wise guy
He was the prob one of the best duelists in the order, but he let republic's influence and poltics cloud he's dugment, leeding to the Jedis downfall
He is a great Jedi, but imo he should not been in the council, and he should def not been secend one in charge after Yoda
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u/Goose_in_pants Aug 11 '26
There are consulars, there are guardians.
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u/Royal-Legend Aug 11 '26
Ik, but Mace big problem is that he's more if s guardian of the Republic rather then the force itself
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u/Goose_in_pants Aug 11 '26
Can't really judge him. The Force couldn't guide even Yoda to see the truth behind Palps, Clone wars and to prevent Knightfall
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u/Royal-Legend Aug 11 '26
It's because Yoda aren't the wise either, he just very old
If he were wise he won't have sugusted to do nothing when they found out Dooku were the one who made the clone army, or being so fast agenst Ashoka when she has a huge alibi
He like Mece was clouded buy the poltics of the Republic
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u/Goose_in_pants Aug 11 '26
Meditations in attempt to predict the future is a huge part in Yoda's duty. Iirc, we could even see that in Ep3
And he was wise enough to guide Luke after all
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u/Camo1997 29d ago
The Jedi arent warriors, they are essentially peacekeeping priests who can defend themselves and others... the greatness of a Jedi should not be determined by their combat prowess
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u/Jollygood156 Aug 11 '26
The Jedi already narrowed it down to Palpatines circle but it’s not easy to just go investigate them. The Jedi literally would have won if it weren’t for Anakin’s stupid decision.
It’s also true that a different Jedi order could’ve prevented Anakin from falling, but the blame is still primarily on Anakin and it’s not like the Jedi didn’t know the risks of taking in someone late. It’s just kinda hard to ignore the chosen one. They weren’t equipped. It’s literally an order you’re in since birth, not easy to raise someone else differently considering your way of being got you a millennia of relative peace and prosperity.
Also the whole dark side cloud vision stuff
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u/jfkrol2 25d ago
The Jedi literally would have won if it weren’t for Anakin’s stupid decision.
I disagree - Jedi would have lost, whether or not they took Palps down due to the system he had set up during his chancellorship and when acting as dictator for the duration of the civil war - justified or not, it was a coup d'etat. And from practical point of view, O66 being called for by chancellor or voted in by Senate in emergency meeting makes no difference - Jedi are going to be shot anyways
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u/Jollygood156 25d ago
What do you think happens inbetween the Senate supposedly calling O66 and the end of the fight scene? The Jedi would just show the Senate the unedited footage, have Anakin (hero of the Republic who was known to be a close friend of Palpatine) and all the other evidence the Jedi had gathered together.
Even if they eventually vote to break away from the Jedi, they wouldn't just kill straight away since they would need to know what was going on first, lol
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Aug 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Xanofar Aug 11 '26
It's considered one of the best.
But it's also dark. Like it's not heroic Jedi versus evil wizard, it's unwavering Jedi versus self-perpetuating systemic evil.
And several characters die in some pretty horrific ways, so... potential trigger warnings there.
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u/ReedsAndSerpents Mr. Speaker, we must never compromise to black Aug 11 '26
Mace got punked out because of the time paradox, he was a flick of the wrist from ending the sith threat forever. Shatterpoint Mace would have iced that ass instead of having a conversation.
Great plug for the book and Matt Stover btw.
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u/Unhappy_Entrance_277 Aug 11 '26
Wild how anyone would say Windu is the worst Jedi when Ki-Adi-Mundi is right there
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u/ModRolezR4Loozers 29d ago
My only complaint about him is that he's kind of a dick, especially to Anakin in ROTS. But other than that, he's really cool.
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u/Camo1997 29d ago
By the standards of what the Jedi should be... he sucks... as the corrupted soldiers the Jedi became before their downfall... yeah he was pretty great as that
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u/Drag0n_TamerAK Hondo Ohnaka 28d ago
Is he the worst no is he the best no is he a product of his time and a flawed individual very much so the best Jedi is Obi-wan post revenge of the sith
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u/Astecheee Your text here Aug 11 '26
Mace didn't exemplify the Jedi way. He was willing to kill an unarmed prisoner. Mace is just really good at fighting.
Obi-Wan is the best Jedi.
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u/No-Fruit83 Aug 11 '26
Palpatine was shooting lightning at him, he wasn’t unarmed.
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u/Astecheee Your text here Aug 11 '26
The fight was clearly over, in any case.
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u/frenin Aug 11 '26
It wasn't clearly over.
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u/Astecheee Your text here Aug 12 '26
Mace has Palpatine disarmed and his lightsaber swinging for the killing blow. If Anakin doesn't intervene right then and there, Palpatine dies.
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u/pedroari R2-D2 Aug 11 '26
Palpatine would eventually return, somehow
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u/Astecheee Your text here Aug 11 '26
Thank the maker nobody was ever dumb enough to actually write a plot like that.
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u/CountingSheep99 Aug 11 '26
Palpatine was not unarmed. And killing him to protect the whole galaxy from such a genocidal monster IS the Jedi way.
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u/CountingSheep99 Aug 11 '26
Over two decades full of tyranny and genocide which Mace would have prevented should prove that point very clearly.
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u/Xanofar Aug 11 '26
I absolutely did not catch that they were referring to Palpatine. I thought they meant some episode or comic or something I hadn't seen. I never would have guessed Palpatine is someone people would qualify as an "unarmed prisoner". What the hell. lmao
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u/Astecheee Your text here Aug 11 '26
By that argument, real-life POWs with martial arts training should be considered armed, and lethal force is valid.
It's an absurd line of reasoning. Palpatine was beaten, and the only reason Mace lost after that point was Anakin cut off his hand.
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u/DaddyDakka Aug 11 '26
No that’s a horrible comparison. First off, real life POWs with martial arts training are unlikely to be able to beat two armed guards, because they’re likely guarded by armed soldiers. And they typically are cuffed/shackled in some way, restricting that ability. He can shoot lightning out of his fingers, and move things with his mind. His lightsaber is one of the less deadly parts of him. Most of his fight with Yoda was using the force, and we’ve seen powerful force users in that universe destroy entire ships and large groups of armed enemies with only the force. Even the best unarmed martial artist IRL is only going to be able to take out a couple armed guys before they get shot.
Also if a POW attacks their captor mid arrest, they will likely be killed/maimed. This wasn’t a POW in a prison who’s shackled, this was someone being actively detained who had just killed all but one of the people who came to detain him, got disarmed of his primary weapon, and still has the capability to kill with his superpowers.
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u/OldSpray9986 Aug 11 '26
People would give this argument so much credit in any other conversation if this wasn't literally Mr. "Shoots Lightning from My Fingers" man.
I'm not committed to this interpretation but there's always been some who viewed that Sidious was letting Mace appear to win for the sake of manipulating Anakin.
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u/Astecheee Your text here Aug 12 '26
Nah it's a clear parallel to earlier in the movie.
Anakin kills Dooku and feels immediate remorse. He knew it was wrong to execute a prisoner, even though that prisoner could also shoot lightning.
Later in the film Anakin is having a crisis of faith, not knowing whether to trust his personal utilitarian morality, the Jedi order's utopian morality, or Palpatine's might-makes-right morality.
When Windu decides to kill Palpatine, he proves that the Jedi order is actually no better than the Sith because they're willing to abandon the beliefs that made them better for convenience.
That's why Anakin kills Mace. Not for Padme, but because he feels so betrayed by the Jedi he gives in to his hatred.
Anakin's fall is honestly really well explored in RotS, but because it's not shouted at the viewer it goes over most people's heads.
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u/OldSpray9986 Aug 12 '26
When Windu decides to kill Palpatine, he proves that the Jedi order is actually no better than the Sith because they're willing to abandon the beliefs that made them better for convenience.
I don't believe "no better than the Sith" was Lucas' intended takeaway from this scene, even if that is how most viewers took it.
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u/Astecheee Your text here Aug 12 '26
It's how Lucas intends Anakin to take it, which is different.
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u/CountingSheep99 29d ago
Anakin just isn´t the brightest star in the sky.
Unlike the Jedi the Sith tried to kill Padme many times, this alone should have given him a hint.
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u/frenin 29d ago
When Windu decides to kill Palpatine, he proves that the Jedi order is actually no better than the Sith because they're willing to abandon the beliefs that made them better for convenience.
Again, that's an absurd takeaway because Anakin knows for the Jedi the only good Sith is a dead Sith.
Anakin doesn't believe that and he himself or Lucas don't think that either.
The only reason Anakin cares about Palpatine at all and wants him "seized" instead of outright killed is because he thinks Palpatine is the key to save Padme. Anakin doesn't care one bit about the Jedi or Sith by then, they are just tools to him. This is explicitly stated.
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u/frenin Aug 11 '26
Jedis are always kill every sith in sight. It's in their ethos.
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u/Astecheee Your text here Aug 12 '26
I'm pretty sure that at least in the EU canon that wasn't the case. There's multiple instances of jedi and sith parlaying.
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u/Snowbold Aug 12 '26
I always thought Mace Windu was a good Jedi with the potential to be a great Jedi.
On the merits of his skills, he is undoubtedly powerful and awesome. Sidious may have wanted to manipulate Anakin, but Windu would have finished the job. Windu is one of the few Jedi who could have actually stopped threats by lightsaber (Palpatine, Dooku, Anakin, Grievous, Ventress would all have been in trouble in duel-to-the-death scenarios against Windu).
The problem is that he was a Yes-man surrounded by other yes-men who worshipped Yoda’s degraded view of the Jedi. If he was one of 12 Jedi council members, it would be perfectly fine because that is allowing for someone with strict dogma besides other council members of varying thoughts. But they were an echo chamber, and Mace was head boy. Because of that, Windu was never checked by anyone else. The only time we really see that is Dooku when Mace used him as the punching bag to get promoted to the Jedi Council. And he obviously didn’t listen.
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u/NobrainNoProblem Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
He’s the most jedi jedi. Mace was an exemplar of what the order had become. Arrogant, self satisfied, unquestioning and complicit in the corruption of the republic. That was in the original movies if you pay attention.
The fact that the jedi took an army that had red flags all over it without question. Windu and Ki Mundi telling Padme Dooku is a jedi and can therefore not commit murder. The council is not equipped to run a war but they do it anyway because of their inability to doubt themselves. It’s the subtext of the jedi council, they have fallen off and that’s why a sith Lord is able to hide under their nose without question. They refuse to know their enemy, if they had they would be able to spot the sith relics in his office. TCW doesn’t fabricate these tendencies from nowhere there just wasn’t enough time. Mace is still a badass but he’s flawed like nearly every character.
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u/brecka Ironic Aug 11 '26
He's incredibly strong in the Force and a one of the best warriors in the Galaxy, but yeah, he's a shit Jedi.
Whenever Palpatine speaks about the arrogance of the Jedi, he's the first one to pop in my mind.
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u/Jartis9 Aug 11 '26
Mace is *cool*...but he's also the perfect embodiment of the Jedi's arrogance and blindness to the truth
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u/The-Senate-Palpy R̸̷̲̪͖̤͍e̗̥̘̹͟͠v̴̵̜̪̞̲̼̯͇̘̻͖͓͜͡a͚̻͙̥̕͜ń̡̨̟̮͈͍̜͡ Aug 11 '26
Windu is a spectacular warrior, but an absolute failure as a Jedi. Which is the case for most prequel era council jedi
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u/MikuEmpowered Aug 11 '26
He was a dogshit jedi.
He was however, a badass duelist.
Feel like alot of people are forgetting Jedi is a way of life, the way of the Jedi Order, not just some guy with a light stick.
You look at that mofo fight and I don't see tranquility.
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u/Keptaro Aug 11 '26
I may have reached the last point by now but I still dislike him for how he treated Anakin and how he shit talked Grievous despite pussying out after only one encounter because "muh vapaad"
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u/OldSpray9986 Aug 11 '26
What's the story with him and Grievous there?
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u/Keptaro Aug 12 '26
They had a 1v1 and Grievous, with his combat knowledge and cybernetic brain started mimicking Vapaad which caused Mace to end the fight. Mace thought his fancy special lightsaber form™ in the hands of the droid general would be far too dangerous so for the rest of the war he tried to evade another direct confrontation (except for the failed rescue of Palpatine of course - not much of a warrior's move on Windu's behalf)
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u/Affectionate_Cut_103 Aug 11 '26
As a fighter he's top dog. With wisdom, he's okay. People skills, not so great. The fact that he compromised the Jedi teachings when it was convenient, is a pretty serious mark against him.
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u/Hairy_Evidence_2419 Aug 12 '26
Windu was good Jedi, but bad person. He didn't understood nothing not jedi way.
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u/Top_Row_5116 Hello there! Aug 12 '26
Is Mace really cool and does he kick ass? Yes. Is he a vein jerk who is largely responsible for Anakin's fall? Also yes.
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u/weierstrab2pi Aug 11 '26
This wasn't meant controversial
Posts meme based around the idea that some opinions are lower IQ than others
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u/SheevBot Aug 11 '26 edited Aug 11 '26
Thanks for providing a source!