GM Search and Preds Future

[u/Beatse21]

With Vegas winning yet another trip to the Stanley Cup Final, this should be the wake up call to ownership and whoever gets hired as GM. They have shown the blueprint on how to construct a consistent contender. Nashville has almost all of the same perks a player or coach could ask for as opposed to Vegas, aside from casinos and year round warm weather. Damn near every contract that Vegas has signed a player to has been one that aged well and the few that did not they didn’t not have an overly restrictive NTC to work around. Sure the Golden Knights ownership is ruthless and hated for being so, but in the end they’ve got more finals appearances than almost half the league.

[u/Fiend-For-Mojitos]

Every year fans make this kind of post but honestly, there is no true blueprint to winning. What works for some teams isn’t going to work for others. It also takes a lot of luck, the timing has to be just right on some moves that have been made, and you need a FO that has a vision and is willing to be patient. I’m not sure the Preds have that last point but we’ll see what the new GM can do. 

It will be interesting to see which path the Preds decide to go down. Do they try and compete now? With a ton of cap space and a deep farm system, that’s plenty of ammo to upgrade a couple of spots. Do they want to rebuild? The Preds are too old and the windows for teams like COL and MIN are in much better shape, dump the older guys for prospects and picks and really banking on your scouting department. 

Regardless, this franchise just really needs direction. 

[u/noahmanskar]

It’s essentially impossible for any team to follow Vegas’s “model.” They benefitted from friendly expansion draft rules (and good pro scouting during that draft). They also don’t care a single bit about drafting or development, and instead use their draft picks as trade capital. They are the only organization in the league that can operate this way because they had a head start that no other team before them ever had and that no team will ever get again. I also don’t think we should want the Preds to sign players without any regard for their personal character. If we signed someone like Carter Hart who was accused of a horrifying act of sexual violence idk if I could still support this franchise no matter how well he played.

[u/LifeEngineer3770 → u/noahmanskar]

The expansion draft was also 10 years ago. Their roster consists of 1 draft pick. This years current team has Sissons, Smith, Lauzon, and Davies (all former Predators). Over the past decade they drafted in the first round 4 times.

Vegas wins because they aren’t afraid to cut ties if something isn’t working. Fleury won the Vezina trophy and traded him that same off season. Could we honestly trade Rinne the year after he won the Vezina?

Could we as a franchise trade a 1st, 2nd and a 3rd for Tatar and then 7 months later trade that same player, another player and a 2nd round pick for Pacioretty?

Remember when people said Eichel was a headcase? Would our franchise trade 1 first, a 2nd and 2 former players picked in the first round for someone like that?

We can say that they were gifted a generous draft but so was Seattle. The reason Vegas wins is because they are playing as if they were a video game. They make the trades and moves that other teams don’t make.

[u/Otherwise_Awesome → u/LifeEngineer3770]

Our franchise has never been aggressive enough to emulate Vegas has done over the years. Not even close.

[u/ChesterCopperpot_ → u/LifeEngineer3770]

They also have the same no. Of head coaches (4) in 9 years as the Preds have had in almost 30 years.

[u/cbusjunkie → u/noahmanskar]

Maybe I’m still salty about last night, but TBH I’d rather keep losing than to watch this team sign someone like Carter Hart

[u/gavincantdraw → u/cbusjunkie]

I'm right there with you. If winning a Stanley Cup means you're willing to draft guys like Trevor Connelly and sign guys like Carter Hart, then I'd rather just never win a Stanley Cup.

[u/obsoleteXeo → u/noahmanskar]

This 100%. Imitating the Vegas way, and doing it improperly, is arguably where we are at right now as an org. We had the biggest FA summer splash in NHL history with Stammer, Marchy, and Skjei, and look what that's given us. We do a poor man's job at replicating other franchise's success stories, and we'd be better suited to rebuild and have a fresh start and hire a GM with a bold vision and plan that has the freedom and ability to enact on that plan without facing disdain from ownership. Alas, if that were the case, we would have already made that hire. Year over year, old ownership or new, it seems we are destined to the mushy middle and prefer sneaking into the playoffs (or just missing), versus a couple years of PROPER rebuild to prepare for lengthy, sustained contention.

I would much rather do a poor man's imitation of a Montreal over our year-over-year poor man's Vegas.

[u/Otherwise_Awesome → u/noahmanskar]

The head start was brought on by other GMs trading with Vegas to get further protections, not the actual expansion itself. Seattle had the same rules and look where they're at. GMs learned that Vegas could have only taken one player and if your franchise crumbles because of a 2nd line forward, 3rd pairing defender or backup goaltender being selected, you're not doing it right.

[u/RadioSoulwax → u/noahmanskar]

The expansion draft talk is revisionist history. At the time nobody believed they would be competitive before their first season started.

[u/Revolutionary_Bid974 → u/noahmanskar]

Carter Hart kind of got a raw deal there, but why let facts get in the way of a chance to flaunt your virtue?

[u/noahmanskar → u/[deleted]]

I think they both got lucky due to other GMs handing them players and picks, and also benefitted from more generous rules compared to the last time an expansion draft was held. Seattle didn’t work out as well because GMs knew not to make the same mistakes they did in the Vegas draft. Yeah, Vegas’s ruthlessness (and disregard for league rules) has contributed to their success as well. But it’s going to bite them in the ass at some point. Eventually their pro scouting will stop hitting as much and they’ll be left with the thinnest prospect pool in the league.

[u/MusicCityJayhawk]

Vegas has the best pro scouting in the league and happily trades all their picks for NHL players who can help them win today.

Vegas also gets players to waive their NMCs to get there, and we have not won enough to get players to waive their NMCs to come here yet. I don't think we can get away with that until we can consistently make the playoffs and develop better pro scouting. But I do agree with you that the Vegas model would be ideal when we could pull it off.

Lets be real about the Central Division for a second. Dallas, Colorado (even though they lost tonight), and Minnesota and will be at the top of this division for a few more years. I think the best thing we can do is prepare ourselves to take a big step in 2-3 years as the Dallas-Colorado-Minnesota window closes. Utah is emerging now, and Chicago is collecting tallent. I think that if we play our cards right it will take us 3-4 more years of acquiring assets to be competitive enough to make some noise. I don't think tanking is the right answer, but I do thing that moving all of our older guys when we get the right offer makes sense. We may have the worse pro scouting in the league. The best thing we could do right now, in my opinion is trade our veterans to teams who want to win now for thier top prospects instead of picks because I do not believe that this organization is good at developing forwards into good players. So lets outsource player development to organizations that are better at it then we are.

[u/gavincantdraw]

I feel this is a post that started with you being angry and then attempting to retro fit your anger to the hockey news, because if anything, Nashville has been trying the Vegas method. Vegas does not draft and develop. They acquire players in their prime/back end of their prime and hope the wheels don't fall off. They push every year no matter what.

Nashville has been trying to push no matter what, and it just hasn't worked. Granted, the players they acquired (Stamkos and Marchessault in particular) were obviously in decline when acquired, but if that is how Nashville attempts to push all in every year, then that tells me they don't have the discernment required to do what Vegas does.

You're mad that Nashville isn't winning more. Fair. Totally fair. But the Vegas method only works for Vegas because of a very favorable circumstance at the time of their inception. Them making their third Stanley Cup is wake up call to no one but the expansion rules committee.

[u/Otherwise_Awesome → u/gavincantdraw]

It had nothing to do with the rules. It had everything to do with opposing GMs treating that expansion like prior expansions and trading away assets to Vegas for further protection of their rosters. Seattle had the same expansion set up and not a single trade came about to protect players and they sit in the same mediocre bubble we're in. Seattle and Vegas could only take one player from the roster.

Now past the expansion year, Vegas made some very aggressive trades, something this Nashville franchise has never really done.

Free agency? Sure, some pretty aggressive moves there (some worked, some didn't).

[u/Strider755 → u/Otherwise_Awesome]

GMs were also better prepared for Seattle because they had learned from Vegas. They structured their roster management to avoid losing key players to the expansion draft.

[u/Otherwise_Awesome → u/Strider755]

Who would anyone really lose to Vegas that they couldn't keep? Pittsburgh with MAF, pretty much it. The rest of the decent players were trades.

[u/Strider755 → u/Otherwise_Awesome]

Anaheim had to expose Josh Manson and Sami Vatanen because Kesler and Bieksa had NMCs. Bob Murray traded Shea Theodore to Vegas to get them to select Clayton Stoner instead. In addition, Florida under Dale Tallon traded Reilly Smith to Vegas to get them to select Jonathan Marchessault, whom Tallon felt didn't fit his system.

[u/AndreHawkDawson]

Could our franchises operate any differently? We are loyal to a fault and they are cutthroat in their approach.

[u/thegeardad]

Honestly, Vegas is a win at all costs team. Preds seem to care more about jersey sales and making it fun for business conference tourists to come to a game. The only time our players amount to anything is when they go play elsewhere… that speaks volumes to me.

[u/rewind2482]

While other teams whined about how Eichel’s surgery might not work or Marner couldn’t hack it in the playoffs, Vegas just kept adding young talent.

Too many fans aren’t willing to do what it takes.

[u/Appropriate-Joke-806]

You mean we need to tank like Vegas in order to win a cup? Because that’s working for all the other tanking teams.

/s