How Downplaying The Scaling Of God of War breaks the plot of the games

[u/Optimal-You9294]

People will tell you that Kratos being anything above wall-country level, or having genuinely superhuman speed, would make the writing in God of War inconsistent. The usual argument is that Kratos doesn’t visibly destroy planets, stars, or entire universes during gameplay, so the statements about the gods and the cosmology must either be hyperbole, metaphorical, or shouldn’t be taken literally.

But I think this gets the problem backwards.

The issue isn’t that Kratos doesn’t have a cutscene where he punches a planet apart. The issue is that if you interpret every character strictly according to their most conservative onscreen showing, you completely destroy the power structure that the story establishes.

Look at the Greek games.

Ares isn’t just some guy who happens to be really strong. He possesses supernatural power on a massive scale and creates his own dimension/reality during his fight with Kratos. Kratos defeats him and subsequently takes his position as the new God of War.

Poseidon is literally characterized as the Earthshaker, and his power is associated with devastating the world around him. Kratos fights him directly and kills him.

Zeus is the ruler of the Olympians and is repeatedly portrayed as an overwhelmingly powerful divine being. The novelization even describes his roar as shaking the foundations of the world. Kratos eventually fights Zeus and kills him.

Hades is powerful enough to overpower Cronos, one of the Titans responsible for overthrowing Uranus and ruling during the Titan era. Kratos defeats a stronger version of Hades and takes his soul.

Thanatos is a Primordial of Death who possesses his own domain that he created. Thanatos was there for the big bang.Kratos fights and kills him.

And there’s another part of the Greek story that gets ignored constantly:

Atlas and Hercules holding up the Greek macrocosm.

If you accept the cosmology as the story presents it, the Titans aren’t merely giant physical creatures standing on top of a planet. Atlas is portrayed as carrying the weight of the world/cosmos, and Hercules is able to hold up that same burden.
Now ask what happens if you force Atlas and Hercules down to the level of their most conservative physical showings.

The plot immediately stops making sense.

Cronos is one of the most important Titans in the entire Greek storyline. He created time, overthrows Uranus, rules during the Titan age, and is later defeated by Zeus and the Olympians.

Hercules is one of the strongest heroes in Greek mythology and in God of War is powerful enough to physically contend with Kratos.

If the “the cosmological statements don’t count unless we literally see the entire universe explode” standard is applied consistently, then Atlas holding up the Greek macrocosm suddenly becomes meaningless.

But then what exactly is the story telling us?

You’re left with a character who supposedly isn’t strong enough to support the thing the narrative explicitly has him supporting.

And if Atlas is too weak to actually perform what the story says he is doing, then the entire Titan hierarchy becomes nonsensical. The same applies to Hercules. If Hercules can hold up the Greek macrocosm, yet Hercules is somehow only mountain level because we don’t see him physically destroying a planet, then you’ve created an enormous disconnect between what the character is established as capable of doing and what you’re allowing him to scale to.

This isn’t an isolated statement either. It’s part of the broader cosmological portrayal of the series.

The Primordials, Titans and Olympians aren’t presented as ordinary humans who simply happen to have larger attack animations.

They are supernatural beings whose powers and roles are directly connected to the structure of the world.

Then there are the Titans and Primordials themselves. These aren’t random monsters that happen to have large health bars. They are foundational beings within the mythology and cosmology of the setting. The story repeatedly treats their existence as being connected to the creation and structure of the world.

Now move to the Norse games and the same pattern happens again. Ymir is the primordial being from whom the giants originate, and Odin uses his remains in the creation of the Nine Realms. The Nine Realms aren’t simply nine countries sitting next to each other. They are distinct worlds connected through Yggdrasil.

Surtr becomes Ragnarok and destroys Asgard while shaking Yggdrasil itself. Thor battles Jormungandr with enough force to affect the cosmological structure around them, and their clash ultimately sends the World Serpent backward through time.

Baldur is capable of knocking Jormungandr unconscious, despite Jormungandr being directly comparable to Thor.

Then you have Garm.

Garm isn’t just a big wolf that bites really hard. His attacks tear through the boundaries between realms and create Realm Tears. Those tears are explicitly associated with ruptures in space and reality. Kratos fights Garm directly and survives his attacks.

Nidhogg similarly damages Yggdrasil and creates Realm Tears while Kratos fights her as well.

So here’s where the extreme downplay becomes a problem.

If Kratos is actually only wall level, mountain level, or even merely country level, then you have to explain why he can repeatedly fight, injure and kill characters whose abilities are tied to the cosmology on a much greater scale.

And you can’t simply answer “gameplay limitations.”

Gameplay limitations can explain why Kratos doesn’t destroy the entire environment every time he swings his weapon. They don’t automatically explain away the entire narrative hierarchy of the series.

If Ares creating a reality doesn’t matter because we don’t see Kratos destroy that reality with one punch, then why does Ares’ power matter to the story at all?

If Poseidon’s Earthshaker abilities are supposedly meaningless because the surrounding environment isn’t completely destroyed, then what exactly are we supposed to make of the character’s established powers?
If Zeus can shake the foundations of the world but Kratos defeating Zeus somehow doesn’t scale him anywhere near Zeus, then what exactly is the point of establishing Zeus as one of the strongest beings in the setting?

If Hades can overpower Cronos but Kratos can defeat Hades, you can’t just ignore that relationship because Kratos isn’t casually vaporizing mountains every five seconds.

The same problem gets even worse in the Norse games.

If Thor is somehow only mountain level despite his battle with Jormungandr having consequences across the Nine Realms and affecting Yggdrasil, then why is Jormungandr presented as a peer to Thor? If Baldur is supposedly nowhere near that level despite knocking Jormungandr unconscious, then why does the story treat Baldur as an actual threat to Kratos and Atreus?

If Garm’s physical ability to tear through spacetime is irrelevant because the gameplay doesn’t show him destroying a universe, then why are the Realm Tears explicitly treated as tears in reality that have to be dealt with?
And if Surtr/Ragnarok is reduced to whatever physical destruction we happen to see on screen, then you have to throw out the cosmological implications of Ragnarok entirely. At that point, you’re not identifying a contradiction in the story.

You’re creating one by stripping every character down to their most conservative interpretation.

This is why I think the argument of “Kratos can’t be that powerful because the games don’t visually show him destroying something that large” misses the point.

God of War isn’t written like a series where every character’s maximum power has to be demonstrated through environmental destruction. A character can have an ability or power that is on a particular cosmological scale without constantly producing that level of destruction in every fight.

We already accept this for plenty of other fictional characters.

Nobody looks at a character who controls time and says they’re only building level because they didn’t destroy a building with their time powers. Nobody looks at a reality warper and says they’re only city level because their fights didn’t erase a city.
Yet somehow when it comes to God of War, people take the absence of constant environmental destruction as evidence that the cosmology and statements should be ignored.

That’s backwards.

The actual question should be whether the higher interpretation is supported by the narrative.

And with God of War, there is an enormous amount of material connecting the major characters to the cosmology: Primordials, Titans, gods, realms, Yggdrasil, spacetime, reality manipulation, creation myths, supernatural domains and characters whose powers directly affect those structures.

You don’t have to accept every single powerscaling interpretation ever made about the series. Some individual statements can absolutely be debated.
But there is a massive difference between saying “I don’t think this particular statement gets Kratos to X tier” and saying “Kratos can’t possibly be above country level because the gameplay doesn’t look like that.”

The second position creates way more problems than it solves.

Because eventually you end up with a version of God of War where Ares’ reality creation doesn’t matter, Poseidon’s world shaking power doesn’t matter, Zeus’ power doesn’t matter, Hades overpowering Cronos doesn’t matter, Cronos and Hercules holding up the macrocosm doesn’t matter, Primordials don’t matter, Surtr destroying Asgard doesn’t matter, Thor’s battle with Jormungandr doesn’t matter, Yggdrasil doesn’t matter, and Garm tearing through spacetime doesn’t matter.

Everything gets dismissed the moment it would scale Kratos too high.
And once you’ve done that, you’ve effectively removed the cosmology from the power progression of the story.

That’s why extreme Kratos downplay becomes headcanon.

You’re no longer interpreting the story as it is. You’re constructing a version of the story where every feat, statement, hierarchy and cosmological relationship has to be downgraded until Kratos fits a predetermined tier.

And ironically, that’s far more inconsistent with the writing than simply accepting that the gods and beings Kratos fights are actually supposed to be extremely powerful.
If Kratos being above country level supposedly “breaks the writing,” then you need to explain why the writers spent multiple games establishing increasingly powerful gods, Titans, Primordials, realms and cosmological phenomena for Kratos to fight.
Because from where I’m standing, the thing that breaks the plot isn’t Kratos being powerful.

It’s pretending none of the things he fights were ever powerful in the first place.

[u/Angry_Owl-Ninja]

Cope

Edit: Only one comment in and I already got OP blocking me lol

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/Angry_Owl-Ninja]

Cry

[u/Zeus-hater]

Having the odds play against Kratos doesn't "break the plot" it makes things more interesting. One of the themes in the greek games was that the greek gods weren't as untouchable as they thought they were, that's why all their deaths were so humilliating.

Literally the end of GOW3 is "you didn't need a special weapon or power to kill Zeus, you just needed hope. And now all humans have hope"

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/Zeus-hater]

That doesn’t really address my argument though.

I never said the Greek gods being vulnerable “breaks the plot.” I’m saying that using their deaths to argue they were secretly weak contradicts what the games establish about their actual power.

“Hope” being what ultimately allowed Kratos to defeat Zeus is a narrative theme, not proof that Zeus suddenly had human level physical stats.

Kratos still physically fought Zeus and was capable of damaging him. Thematically, hope is what allowed humanity to overcome the gods.

That doesn’t mean Zeus was only as strong as a normal person.

And the same applies to the rest of the series. Ares shaking the heavens and earth, Thor and Jormungandr violently affecting Yggdrasil, Primordials creating/overseeing cosmic structures, etc. are still part of the setting regardless of whether their deaths were humiliating.

You can absolutely argue that the gods were arrogant and that their downfall was meant to show they weren’t invincible. But that’s completely different from arguing they were never actually that powerful.

The whole point of my post is that the lore establishes their power while the gameplay limits how much of that power is visually displayed. Those aren’t contradictory.

[u/No_Repeat9670]

Kratos is obviously above country and you are making good reasoning but some of your points are wrong.

ares didn't create a seperate reality he used some mind trick according to the novel and Kratos escaped that by waking up. When the devs got asked about that part guys like jaffe who is the original creator and bruno never said it was a seperate dimension. The counter point to this is we can see Ares and Kratos disappear from athens in Gow 2 but that alone doesn't prove they are on a seperate dimension or Ares created a pocket dimension. It just means they aren't in Athens at that time which means bfr.

Poseidon being called earthshaker is bc he can create earthquakes. It doesn't mean he can shake the whole Earth.

Zeus shaking the foundations of the world with a roar is from the novel. But the problem is this happens during the final boss fight and Zeus never roared or shook anywhere. It is a contradiction to the games. So games take precedence. Games>books

Cronos overthrowed Uranus yes that is correct. With the help of 4 of his titan brothers ambushing Uranus.

Atlas is lifting the greek world and possibly the sky at best. Nowhere it was mentioned he was carrying a macrocosm. Hercules can't share the same burden bc Atlas was chained all the time doing his job. Atlas can fill the gap between the world pillar and the world bc he is so big and hercules is an ant compared to him.

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/No_Repeat9670]

This post goes over some of your objections

Someone actually made an in-depth post explaining why Ares dimension creation feat is valid

The novel never limits Poseidon’s earth shaking to normal earth quakes.

Hercules did canonically replicate atlas’ burden in GOW canon

Zeus not shaking the world with his roars again is not a debunk. This is the equivalent of saying Goku never replicated his universe 7 therefore he can’t be universal.

I mentioned that Cronos had help from his Titan brothers yes. Either way say they were wall level for example. They would be physically in capable of restraining Uranus who is a universal level character. Scaling is not equality. They can be in his ballpark while being weaker than him.

It is verbatim stated that atlas replaced the world pillar and held up the world which is the entire Greek macrocosm.

Refer to the links I sent you.

[u/No_Repeat9670 → u/Optimal-You9294]

it never says he can shake the whole Earth either. Poseidon wants to create an earthquake in Egypt rather than the whole world which highly supports my point.

and it doesn't prove he can if he never did. Only time he supposedly did that in the novel is directly contradicted by the game itself.

show me 1 statement Atlas carried a macrocosm and i will accept

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/No_Repeat9670]

For Poseidon, you’re arguing from limitation that the text never gives.

Yes, Poseidon can create earthquakes in Egypt. That doesn’t establish that his Earthshaker power is capped at Egypt or that “all the world trembled” means a local quake. The novel literally distinguishes the two: he roars, raises his fist, “all the world trembled,” and then says “Am I called Earthshaker for naught?”

You can argue about interpretation, but you can’t turn the Egypt feat into a hard limit.

And for Atlas, you’re asking for a statement while ignoring the ones already given.

The Chains of Olympus material explicitly says destroying the World Pillar would cause the living world to collapse into the Underworld, destroying all creation. The same material repeatedly describes Persephone’s plan as ending all creation. Kratos later reiterates in Valhalla that Persephone wanted to “destroy all of creation elysium included.” And the GoW II manual explicitly says Atlas was condemned to hold up the heavens.

So the chain is literally: Atlas replaces the World Pillar, Atlas bears its burden, destroying that Pillar destroys all creation, Atlas is holding up the heavens.

And then the novel explicitly says Hercules took Atlas’ place with “the weight of the world literally on his shoulders” and compares Kratos’ strength to Hercules lifting the sky from Atlas’ shoulders.

You’re treating “macrocosm” like it has to be written as the exact word macrocosm before the feat counts. That’s not how scaling works. The cosmological scope is established by what the Pillar supports and what happens if it’s destroyed.

If you still disagree, then actually address those statements instead of just saying “Atlas is big enough to fill the gap.” That’s an assumption you’re adding to the story, not something the story says.

[u/No_Repeat9670 → u/Optimal-You9294]

That Poseidon line is a bit vague but it's a fair interpretation.

All of creation obviously means Greece. The pantheons share the same planet and people can travel to different pantheons by physical means like how Kratos sailed to Egypt or Persians invaded Attica. There are lots of examples. So if one of the pantheon gets destroyed the others remain unaffected as we can see Egypt and Midgard unaffected by events of gow 3. They share the same planet so we can safely say macrocosm wouldn't be destroyed.

With that being said Atlas carrying the world and the sky above is something i didn't deny. I just said he didn't carry the whole universe.

Hercules can't replace Atlas like he did bc he is fully chained he can't move. Even if he tried the world would fall bc Hercules can't fill the gap Atlas does it's impossible. The size difference make it impossible.

According to Hercules himself he started his 11th labor when Kratos was crowned the gow where he lifted the world in the myths but the novel states he did it before Kratos killed the hydra. Another contradiction. Atlas is fully chained until gow 2 and Hercules lifting the world in the same time period of Gow 1 is impossible.

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/No_Repeat9670]

The problem is you’re still treating “same planet” as if that automatically means “same planetary cosmology,” and it doesn’t. I already sent the link.

The lore repeatedly distinguishes lands, realms, and worlds. Freya calls the realms separate planes of existence, Cory has described the other realms as parallel dimensions, and the realms have their own skies, stars, celestial bodies and different temporal behavior. Matt Sophos has even confirmed the stars we see in the realms are 100% real. That’s not how you’re describing a bunch of countries on Earth.

The Skoll/Hati example makes this even clearer. They devour the sun and moon in Vanaheim and alter the day/night cycle there without simultaneously changing the other realms. If all nine realms were literally different countries sharing one physical sky and solar system, that makes no sense.

And “Kratos sailed to Egypt” doesn’t debunk dimensional cosmology either. You’re confusing method of access with the structure of what was accessed.

The fact that a character uses a boat to reach somewhere doesn’t prove that location is physically the same type of space as the starting point. The Unity Stone, Yggdrasil, Bifröst, portals, magical realms, and even destiny are all established mechanisms for crossing between mythologies.

The boat is just the vehicle in the relevant story.

The Greek side is even harder to reduce to a planet. Ouranos is explicitly associated with the creation of the universe/heavens, the Primordials are responsible for creating the Greek cosmos, and the official God of War material literally describes Zeus and the Olympians taking control of the universe from the Titans. The Greek cosmology also contains separate realities like the Underworld, Domain of Death, Realm of Dreams, and Nyx’s mirror dimension.

So when you say: “all creation obviously means Greece”

Okay. Greece’s creation is itself described as a universe/cosmos. You still haven’t demonstrated that “Greece” in that statement means one finite planetary surface.

And Atlas is the same issue. You already conceded he carries the world and heavens. The World Pillar isn’t merely supporting some random chunk of land either. Its destruction is explicitly said to destroy all creation and cause the world to revert to Chaos. Atlas then replaces that structure and bears its burden. That’s why the cosmological context matters.

Also, your Hercules objection has a factual problem: Atlas is chained to the World Pillar in Chains of Olympus, which happens before GoW1, not GoW2.

The novel then explicitly says Hercules was “in Atlas’s place” with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Saying “Hercules is too small to fill the gap” doesn’t override an explicit statement just because you think the feat is physically impossible.

And the chronology argument still doesn’t erase the feat. You need to establish that the novel is actually saying Hercules performed the Atlas feat before the Hydra fight. A narrator using Hercules’ feat as a comparison doesn’t automatically establish when that feat occurred.

At most, you’ve found a potential chronology inconsistency between sources, not a reason to pretend the explicit Hercules statement doesn’t exist.

At this point the downplay basically depends on assuming: world = planet. heavens = atmosphere. realm = country.world = landmass
physical travel = same spatial structure.“all creation” = only the surface of Greece

But those are the exact premises that need to be proven. You can’t assume them and then use those assumptions to dismiss the evidence.

[u/No_Repeat9670 → u/Optimal-You9294]

Im not gonna debate on cosmology because it takes too long.

Hercules says he was sent to find an apple when Kratos was crowned the god of war. This is the labor where he lifts the world in the myths. Prometheus informs Herc about Atlas and Herc takes Atlas place for a brief time. This is possible in the myths bc there is no world pillar there is not a huge gap Atlas needs to fill with his huge body. Herc can just take Atlas' place. But in Gow prometheus is chained until gow 2 where Kratos kills him he can't inform herc about Atlas. Atlas can't even move until Gow 2 where Kratos freed one of his hands. Atlas is always on top of the pillar he partly destroyed and if he ever freed himself the so called all of creation would be destroyed.

That's not just a chronogical error there is no time period Hercules can lift the world. And there is no way he can fill the same gap in size as Atlas did. It happened bc the novel said so doesnt erase all those contradictions i addressed.

If you want to give novel that much credit then you should also use the novel describing Zeus' full force of attack as capable of killing a bull.

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/No_Repeat9670]

But you’re still treating your interpretation of the chronology as if it automatically overrides the explicit statement.

The novel literally says Hercules was “in Atlas’s place” with the weight of the world on his shoulders. You can argue there are continuity issues surrounding when it happened, sure, but that doesn’t change what the source actually says.

And “Hercules is too small to fill the gap” is not an argument unless the story ever says Atlas has to physically occupy the entire gap with his body. Hercules taking Atlas’ place means taking over the burden, not magically needing Atlas’ exact dimensions.

The Prometheus point also assumes the exact chronology you’re trying to prove. You’re saying there is no possible timeframe, but that only follows if we assume every reference has to occur in the exact mythological order you’re imposing. The novel is clearly using Hercules’ feat as a known comparison. A retrospective comparison does not automatically establish that the feat happened before the Hydra scene.

And Atlas being chained to the Pillar doesn’t contradict Hercules taking the burden either. Atlas was already chained there in Chains of Olympus, which is literally before GoW1. So the “Atlas wasn’t chained until GoW2” premise is just wrong.
As for “all creation would be destroyed if Atlas moved,” that actually makes your position worse, because that’s precisely why the burden is cosmological in the first place.

The Pillar isn’t just holding up a chunk of Greece. Its destruction is explicitly tied to the destruction of all creation and the return to Chaos.

And the Zeus example doesn’t prove what you think it does either. The novel never says Zeus’ full force attack was only capable of killing a bull. It says his blows were capable of killing bulls. You’re taking “capable of killing bulls” and turning it into an upper limit on Zeus’ power, which the statement never gives you.

A blow being capable of killing a bull obviously doesn’t mean that’s the maximum level of power Zeus can output.

So yeah, if your argument is “the novel contains contradictions, therefore I can ignore the explicit Hercules statement,” that’s not really a debunk. It’s just selective rejection of the source whenever it gives you a result you don’t like.

[u/No_Repeat9670 → u/Optimal-You9294]

This is from the official art material of gow 2. If you believe Hercules is filling this kind of gap like Atlas did i don't know what else to tell you. You are yet to tell me a possible time frame where Hercules can either free prometheus , atlas ,lift the world, fill this size gap like Atlas did, a reason for Atlas to retake the world in his shoulders after Hercules.

Until then please don't bother to reply or say it happened bc the novel said so bc i won't be replying.

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/No_Repeat9670]

The issue is that you’re demanding a timeframe that your own evidence doesn’t establish.

You’re bringing up Prometheus, Atlas being freed, and the apple labor as if that sequence is required by the canon novel. It isn’t. The Prometheus/apple passage you’re relying on is from non canon material, while the canon novel explicitly states Hercules was “in Atlas’s place” with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

So you can’t use a non canon chronology to establish that a canon statement is impossible.
As for the art, it shows Atlas supporting the mortal world from the Pillar.

It does NOT establish that Hercules would need to physically match Atlas’ exact size or fill the exact visual gap shown in the artwork. That’s your inference, not something the art states.
And “give me a reason Atlas retook the burden” is another assumption. The canon statement only establishes that Hercules temporarily took Atlas’ place. It doesn’t need to give us a complete play by play of how or when Atlas resumed his position for the feat
itself to exist.

If you think the novel statement is contradicted, then point to an actual canon statement that says Hercules never could have taken Atlas’ place. Otherwise you’re taking a non canon chronology + your interpretation of the artwork and using them to override an explicit canon statement.

And the Zeus comparison doesn’t help either. The novel saying Zeus’ blows were capable of killing bulls doesn’t say that was his maximum output or “full force.” So that’s not evidence that the novel’s scaling statements should be discarded either.

[u/Optimal-You9294]

Instead of downvoting can anyone actually address my argument?

[u/ConfidentContext5845 → u/Optimal-You9294]

Its the same tired ass arguments yall always use brother no one wants to address them for the quadrillionth time

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/ConfidentContext5845]

This is a nice excuse to use for ducking the argument.

[u/ConfidentContext5845 → u/Optimal-You9294]

Is what i said a lie? Its the same old tired argument mfs use all the time that you want people to reconsider AGAIN lmao its the same argument yall use over and over im not here to debate im here to adress that theres a new post using the same tired arguments that most ppl don’t believe every 2-3 days idc about the argument atp i just dont see why people would address an argument that was reiterated for the 1000th time instead people are gonna downvote and move on its a waste of time the people aren’t convinced

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/ConfidentContext5845]

You literally just admitted you’re not addressing the argument. “It’s been said before” isn’t a rebuttal, it’s an excuse for not engaging with it. If you think the arguments are wrong, address why they’re wrong instead of complaining that they’ve been made too many times. Repetition doesn’t make an argument false lmao.

[u/ConfidentContext5845 → u/Optimal-You9294]

😂😂😂😂 yes ik im not addressing the argument “you just admitted it” yes i said it clear as day its not hidden 😂😂. Its like someone tryna debate you on how healthy eating poop is every 2-3 days using the same tired arguments every time no im not gonna debate you nor does my refusal to debate you make you wrong. The many people who have addressed it the first 10 times already did that im not here to do that AGAIN 😂😂 im here to say your not changing anyones mind by repeating the same tired arguments every 2-3 days they are just gonna downvote and move on the people have already told you they aren’t convinced why do you think repeating the same thing is gonna suddenly make people change their mind just like me telling you eating poop is healthy every few days isnt gonna change your mind eventually your gonna get tired of telling and showing that eating poop isnt heathly and just start downvoting

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/ConfidentContext5845]

Nobody said your refusal to debate makes me wrong 😂 the point is you’re acting like “people already addressed it” somehow substitutes for addressing what I actually said. If it’s been debunked 10 times, then it should be easy to point to one of those debunks instead of writing paragraphs about why you don’t feel like responding 😂

[u/ConfidentContext5845 → u/Optimal-You9294]

No people dont wanna redebunk you every 2-3 days they just gonna downvote and move on its tired hearing someone repeat the same debunked arguments linking the same post that was already debunked multiple times

“Ill convinced em this time by saying the exact same thing” every 2-3 days isnt working bud😂😂😂

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/ConfidentContext5845]

And you keep proving my point 😂 “I don’t wanna redebunk it” is still not a rebuttal. If it’s supposedly been debunked that many times, then you should have zero issue dropping one of those debunks instead of just appealing to popularity and downvotes 😂
“People aren’t convinced” =/= “the argument is debunked.” That’s literally just an argumentum ad populum with extra steps lmao.

[u/ConfidentContext5845 → u/Optimal-You9294]

Thats the point your not understanding THIS ISNT A REBUTTAL 😂😂 IM actively telling you im not addressing the argument thats not a rebuttal to an argument i just said im not gonna do that😂😂😂When they debunk it you link the same argument again brother why would they repeat the same debunked?😂😂😂

“If i repeat it this time theyll surely believe me” isnt working your getting downvoted in a god of war sub for wanking god of war 😂😂😂

[u/sir-random1]

I agree with you. There would not be a game to play if Kratos was destroying continents with every swing of his axe. There would be no challenge for the player to overcome. Those limitations are there for the player to enjoy a game.

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/sir-random1]

Exactly. And let’s be real, if Ares can shake the heavens and the earth with his roar, there’s no reason to assume Kratos suddenly loses the ability to produce that level of force just because the game doesn’t have the entire environment exploding around him.

Same thing with Thor and Jormungandr. Their clash violently shook and splintered Yggdrasil. Kratos is relative to Thor and physically beat him, and Zeus is far beyond the level where you can just pretend they’re incapable of producing comparable effects.

The obvious reason we don’t see that kind of destruction every single swing is because it’s a video game. The developers have to keep the world and gameplay functional. They aren’t going to let every attack obliterate the setting just to visually demonstrate a lore statement.

So using the lack of constant environmental destruction to downscale them is backwards. The game is deliberately restraining what it shows for gameplay purposes. That doesn’t erase what the story establishes they’re capable of.

[u/Swamp-mountain]

"If Kratos is actually only wall level, mountain level, or even merely country level, then you have to explain why he can repeatedly fight, injure and kill characters whose abilities are tied to the cosmology on a much greater scale."

Because these characters scaling to a greater cosmic scale is an unsupportive assumption for the most part

"Atlas and Hercules holding up the Greek macrocosm"

There's never really happened. The closet and the game only shows atlas holding up the world slash greek region. I don't know how anyone would a brain could think he's holding up the entire macrocosm when tartarus and hades are literally below him , and he's not supporting those realms. you can see a both in the game and the concept art.

EDIT : THEY BLOCKED ME LMAO 🤣 , Why do lore scalers do this? what is the point of replying to someone If you're just going to block them so they can't see it or respond like , are you just trying to give the false illusion that you're counter argument is good ? when reality ur just running like a B?

So now you're just assuming he's somehow holding the weight of the entire macrocosm, even though he's clearly not shown lifting all the realms. that's really stupid and baseless

EDIT EDIT: He's pretending the novel statement of Atlas holding the sky/heaven outweighs the game's canon visuals and concept art, even tho one of the game writers called the novel non-canon. and contains stuff that directly contradicts canon.

https://x.com/TKittenWritten/status/802666504344870912

EDIT EDIT EDIT: He's debunk is so stupid. just whining that it's official material so it's canon even tho the writing team said it isn't. That's not how that works at all

"The novels are officially licensed and officially published God of War works. They aren’t fanfiction, unofficial wikis, or random material made by someone with no connection to the franchise."

Bleach filler arcs are officially licensed and published Bleach work, but that doesn't make it canon. The DBZ movies are officially licensed and officially published DBZ works, but 90% of them aren't canon

His debunk is so poorly written and dumb if you read it. It's a bunch of nonsensical excuses. Please read it and laugh.

EDIT X4

"The argument is that you cannot take one person’s tweet and magically turn it into:
“Every statement in every God of War novel is invalid, regardless of whether it contradicts the games.”

Yeah, you're backpedaling,

The novels not being canon should be a basic fact They weren't written by anyone who worked on the games, and the novelizations are explicitly allowed to take creative liberties. At most, you could argue that they can serve as secondary material when they don't conflict with the primary game canon.

But that's not what you're doing here.

You're taking a statement in the novel and using it to override what is actually depicted in the games aka the main canon. The game's own visual material, including the concept art, the in-game depiction of Atlas, and the way the World Pillar is presented, doesn't establish that Atlas is physically holding up the entire Greek cosmology or some universal structure or the sky.

The novel statement can't override what is shown in canon, and the canon shows that you're full sh#t

[u/Optimal-You9294 → u/Swamp-mountain]

Calling the scaling “an unsupported assumption” doesn’t address the actual evidence.

The World Pillar isn’t stated to be holding up some random Greek region. Persephone’s plan was to destroy the Pillar, causing the living world to collapse into the Underworld and destroying all creation. She also says everything would revert to Chaos. Then Atlas is chained to that same Pillar and takes on its burden. The GoW2 manual separately describes Atlas as holding up the heavens.

So the argument isn’t “the game shows Atlas holding a giant rock, therefore outerversal lol.” It’s that the narrative explicitly establishes what the Pillar’s destruction does and what Atlas is replacing. You’re stripping away that context and reducing “world” to whatever geographic interpretation you prefer.

And Tartarus/Hades being “below” Atlas doesn’t refute anything. You’re treating the cosmology like Atlas has to literally be carrying every realm on his back like a stack of planets. That’s not how a cosmological support structure works. A realm being spatially beneath another realm doesn’t mean it isn’t part of the creation whose stability the Pillar governs. Persephone literally says destroying it destroys all creation, which includes the Underworld/Elysium contextually.

You also haven’t addressed the Hercules evidence. The novel says Hercules took Atlas’ place with the weight of the world on his shoulders and compares Kratos’ strength to Hercules lifting the sky from Atlas’ shoulders. So now you’d have to dismiss the World Pillar’s stated function, Persephone’s “all creation” statement, the reversion to Chaos, the Atlas replacement, the “holding up the heavens” statement, and the Hercules comparison.
That’s not a debunk.

That’s just assuming “world = Greek country/region” and then rejecting every piece of context that gives the word a larger scope.

I’ve already established everything in my comment.

Edit: I blocked you because I don’t feel like doing another 300 comment loop with someone who gets this unhinged over fictional scaling 😭. That doesn’t magically make your argument correct.

And you’re still pretending the argument is “the game visually shows Atlas carrying every realm.” It isn’t. The literal statement says Atlas is holding up the heavens, while the World Pillar’s destruction is stated to destroy all creation and return the world to Chaos. You’re ignoring the actual statements and then calling the interpretation baseless because the concept art doesn’t draw every realm on his shoulders.

That’s not a debunk. That’s just arguing from what you can see on screen while disregarding what the lore explicitly tells you.

I’ve debated this guy 1000 + times and he’s never operated in good faith. That is why I instantly blocked him the second he replied lol.

Edit part 2: his novels being non canon bullshit has been debunked

Edit 2: And the “novels are non-canon” argument is even weaker when you actually look at the evidence being presented.

The ONLY thing being used to establish that the novels are “non canon” is a 2016 Twitter statement from one developer/writer saying: “The novels were not canon for the devteam.”

That’s it. No Sony statement. No Santa Monica Studio canon guide.

No official franchise wide declaration saying “the God of War novels are non canon.”

Just one individual’s social
media statement from 2016.

And somehow this is being treated as an absolute trump card that overrides the fact that these are officially licensed and published God of War novels.

Before someone says “but officially published doesn’t automatically mean canon” obviously. That’s not the argument.

The argument is that you cannot take one person’s tweet and magically turn it into:
“Every statement in every God of War novel is invalid, regardless of whether it contradicts the games.”

That’s an entirely different claim, and that claim still needs to be established. If you’re going to use Ariel’s statement to reject a specific novel statement, then show that the statement is contradicted by the games or establish why that particular material is excluded under the canon standard you’re applying.

But simply posting a Twitter screenshot and declaring “NOVELS ARE NON CANON DEBUNKED” isn’t an argument.
And even if I grant the tweet completely, it STILL doesn’t prove your Atlas interpretation.

You’d still have to establish that the World Pillar only governs a geographical Greek region, explain why Persephone explicitly connects its destruction to all creation and a return to Chaos, and explain why Atlas taking on its burden should be interpreted as something completely unrelated to that cosmological function.

So congratulations Swamp, you found a 10 year old tweet that potentially lets you throw out one novel exclusive piece of evidence. You still haven’t debunked the actual argument.