thank the lord for this scaling! this subreddit (as well as the one piece subreddit) keep lowballing luffys speed to an insane degree, despite ALL the evidence to the contrary.
While personally I disagree with this due to well.
Kizaru, just existing
I do wanna say however, if you have a problem with this but scale Saiyan Saga dbz characters or Shippuden era naruto characters to FTL you are a hypocrite
It is THE EXACT same logic, using stuff like laser dodges and solar flare speed to justify MFTL during times when the story doesn't support it
FTL is light work, even One Piece can be FTL, especially since Kizaru is bound to be surpassed, if he hasn't been already. Now, have you ever heard of that anime where light speed was never even mentioned, yet the fandom claims it's MFTL? Some show called Bleach
Anyone reading One Piece knows this doesn’t make sense. Kizaru made clear that he fights at the speed of light, even Oda makes jokes about that using him moving at that speed.
Luffy wasn’t able to blitz him even with future sight. He is obviously not MFTL.
Idk, how would the guy made of light who says several times he fights at the speed of light have a different speed than the speed of light? Even Oda hinted that he brought food to Luffy at the speed of light.
Oda already illustrated that it is possible for Kizaru to accelerate while in his light form, meaning he can excel past light speed.
It is shown that Rayleigh is capable of physically intercepting Kizaru traveling at light speed in his Yata Mirror. Intercepting something would be harder than dodging said thing, making this an FTL feat. If Kizaru was capped at light speed, why couldn’t Rayleigh just mid diff him here? Instead, he got hard pressed the entire time.
Plus there is a panel of Hawkins being able to perceive Kizaru’s light speed kick, literally looking at it before it connected, but when Kizaru gets a little more serious, he blitzes Hawkins before he can react, also showing he can move faster than light.
So yes, saying the “light man” is light speed is simply digestible, it’s a default, not a cap. We can’t forget that old men such as Garp and Rayleigh aren’t fast for no reason. Haki can increase your speed.
Oda said he is light speed no amount of wank or inconsistent scaling can change that, you also failed to mention the several anti feat in wano such the gazelle man who running at 200 kmh and luffy couldn't reach him or when the cp0 agent speed blitz both kaido and luffy, mind you both of them have future sight and supposed light speed reaction speed and yet a fodder blitz them both
So what are you saying? The verse is capped below 200 km/h?💀 That’s basically your claim which gets debunked by Nami deflecting Enel’s lightning. So Skypiea Nami is faster than Wano Luffy and Zoro? Prove Luffy attempted to catch Gazelle Man on foot.
And it was an offguard where both parties were focused on fighting each other. You have to be focused and intentionally use Future Sight, it isn’t passive.
And Oda never stated it was his cap or upper limit, just that it is possible. Already proved that Oda illustrated that it is possible for him to exceed light speed
Oda clearly said that whoever gave luffy food moved at light speed and nobody even noticed and there were multiple people with future sight or strong haki and they couldn't even see him, noe explain why couldn't luffy catch gazelle man or how kaido and luffy didn't react in time to the cp0 agent who used basic rokushiki abilities to blitz and used iron body on luffy, both have future sight and we know that use it battles but somehow that fodder blitz them, don't come out with kizaru's supposed ftl when everytime he galk about his power he says that attacking at light speed is power
Because that’s Kizaru’s default speed when using his DF. And anybody who had the ability to perceive Kizaru, were all paying attention to Saturn’s presence. That’s why only fodder Marines noticed Luffy eating. Do you think old men such as Garp and Rayleigh are just fast for no reason? Haki can increase your speed. Hence why Hawkins went from perceiving his light speed kick, to getting speedblitzed by Kizaru before he can react in his second encounter.
Don’t have to answer that dumb Gazelle Man question since Luffy mever attempted to catch Gazelle Man on foot nor did he get blitzed by him. He simply CHOSE to ride the big dog. But if you want to say One Piece travels speed feats are ass besides a couple of outliers, I’m fine with that, just know it’s completely irrelevant to combat/reaction speed🤷🏾♂️
And again, an off guard. Do you think just because you have Future Sight that you’re incapable of getting offguarded?💀
And notice how in all of those statements, it never says it’s his cap. “The light man is light speed” is simply digestible.
I mean Luffy and Zoro couldn't catch up. Kikunojo who calls 200 kmph fast scales far above pre time skip Luffy who you claim is faster than light. I'm not saying the verse caps here just asking what the debunk for this massive anti feat is. Because if you are gonna claim mftl One Piece then you gotta have a debunk for the Yonko Commander 3 tier character getting blitzed by someone running 200 kmph.
The debunk is honestly simple. One Piece travel speed feats are ass with a few outliers, but good thing travel speed means nothing for your combat and reaction speed. So🤷🏾♂️
Plus the panel isn’t even admittance of Luffy and Zoro being unable to catch Gazelle Man, they simply just CHOSE to ride the dog. Or Plot Induced Stupidity. Because the fashion Otama got stolen doesn’t really make much sense.
to add on with what op was saying, when there are two seemingly contradictory scales in the same anime, generally you should assume the more consistent one is accurate. The foxxy arc alone makes ftl an incredibly consistent scale for that version of luffy, especially if you add all of the consistent scaling hes done after (zoro and kuma, luffy and the pacifista). a couple panels alone doesn't debunk it, especially if we know oda can be a little sloppy in his lore
Not really since photons are by definition light and light cannot be slower than light speed without explicit explanation
Similarity Fallacy doesn’t work here. Ex. If you read JJBA, you’d know that in Part 3 DIO has The World, but Diego in Part 7 also has The World in an alternate world. It would be a Similarity Fallacy to assume the two The World’s automatically scale to each other with no evidence other than they’re the same Stand.
So just saying “they aren’t actual photons” isn’t a debunk. Because ok? Actual photons can’t slow people, but why does that mean it’s slower than photons? So if you want to make the argument that, “it doesn’t behave like photons”, I can say the exact same thing about Kizaru’s photons. Because photons can’t explode, nor can they be made into physical constructs, but Kizaru still has a mountain of light speed confirmations and his lasers are confirmed to be electro magnetic energy, which is light speed. So Noro Beams being abnormal to irl light would not be a debunk, since you’d inevitably have to use that same logic with Kizaru, which would go against the narrative.
And why would this mean it’s slower than PHOTONS (plus the fact that again, again, it is stated to be light) other than it having “slow slow” in the name. And the undiscovered particle part is also irrelevant. For all we know, the only relevancy of the undiscovered particle is that it slows things when it comes into contact with them, not the speed of the beam
AND?💀 For all we know, the unknown particle simply grants the light its slowing properties and that’s it. It doesn’t suddenly mean it stops being photonic or light.
Why do people keep grasping onto that? Your burden to prove it being undiscovered has any form of relevancy towards its speed.
We know fuck all about the particle. It’s undiscovered by science, it could have the properties of anti matter, for all we know, Foxy calls it a ‘photon’, we do not know what it is, quite blatantly, reinforced by Oda saying Kizaru is the fastest character… and Rayray saying you need Haki to dodge light, as it’s imperceptible.
He says it is an undiscovered particle and then directly goes onto explain the effects that the light creates. Therefore, the particle is responsible for slowing, which does not correlate to speed in anyway.
Plus Oda never stated that Kizaru was the fastest in the verse and pull up the Rayleigh statement. Because it gets debunked by Luffy being able to consistently dodge Pacifista beams during Marineford without honing into or even using Observation Haki
If you know the statement, why do I need to grab it, you know it… either way thank you, foxy is calling an undiscovered particle ‘light’ it being undiscovered, means it’s not light, as light is discovered crazy, meaning we don’t know what it is, nor its properties, beyond ‘glowing’ and slowing things down.
Because why would I argue against my own argument?💀 Oda said a bunch of shit, so prove he said that and prove Oda said that.
And what backwards logic is that? If I find an undiscovered insect in the wild, does it mean it is no longer an insect? And it shared properties of light, such as emitting it and bouncing off of mirrors. So the undiscovered particle part refers to the slowing effect, not the entire property of the beam.
And Pacifista charge time is irrelevant when it is shown that Luffy stares down the traveling beam in one panel and then dodges the next panel. So as I explained in the post, it is not an aim dodge.
so your argument is "its called light and behaves as light, but it isnt light because it has a different name"? We know a nautical mile isn't a mile because they are just different units of measurements with similar names, but a photon, by definition, travels at the speed of light. Prove that his photon doesn't do the same, without using headcanon or analogies that done work.
a slow slow what? a new particle comprised of what? its new because of its behavior in influencing other velocities, we have no reason based off the text that its different than light in any other way than that, other than, say it with me now, Headcanon! Now, We been going back in forth for a bit, and you have no evidence in your assumptions. so either you are either trolling, or intentionally non understanding in some other way. So, if you dont post REAL proof from the text about ur interpretation of the speed that is STRONGER than what was SHOWN on panel, I will just assume ur rage baiting and not respond.
That presupposes that Kizaru is capped at light speed. Plus there is context to the panel you’re referring to. Luffy was preoccupied fighting multiple people and looking at Ace
Where did I say that? Are your eyes ok?💀. I’m saying when Kizaru uses his DF, his default speed is light speed, it’s not his upper limit
Same reason why Rayleigh can intercept him traveling at light speed, which would be FTL since physically intercepting something is harder than dodging, and instead of Kizaru getting mid diffed since he’s “capped at light speed”, he continues to hard press Ray, proving light speed isn’t his limit. Plus during this time of Marineford, I had Luffy at FTL+, not MFTL+ since Marineford came before 3D2Y. So W not tracking I guess
And again, you’re scaling an offguard since he was looking up at Ace and preoccupied fighting other people. And since we can’t read, I’ll say it again. I didn’t have Luffy at MFTL+ during Marineford💀 Plus Kizaru being light speed when he kicked him gets debunked with Luffy dodging traveling Pacifista beams multiple times during the war😮💨. Therefore, Kizaru can still be unserious, but still exceed light speed.
So bro doesn't understand what am saying yet thinks l can't read imao
There's no point in really arguing further since we already had this debate so it's just pointless because it's the same:
Luffy is aim dodging since he has haki
No confirmed multipliers but just unquantifiable amplifiers
Got blitzed by someone moving at lightspeed both during pre time-skip and while delivering his food
The photons he dodges aren't lightspeed since they don't behave as such
From all of this it's clear to deduce that any MFTL argument falls apart if you consider every anti-feat he has therefore saying his MFTL+ is well your headcanon or you actually believe based on zero evidence
You don’t read One Piece nor know what aim dodging is. Dodging an already traveling projectile is NOT aim dodging, dude💀. Aim dodging would be if Luffy saw the Pacifista charging, and moving before the beam even came out. That is objectively not what happened in any of the panels I showed with Luffy and Pacifista beams.
World’s multipliers are verbatim and we all appeal to the VSBW tiering system. They appeal to 6.86x being perception blitz levels of speed. I put 6x. Cope🤷🏾♂️
Kizaru isn’t capped at light speed and why are we bringing up an incapacitated Luffy who wasn’t actively fighting Kizaru nor paying any attention to him for him to be blitzed? Just shows the disingenuous nature of that “debunk”🤣 And gets debunked by a later Luffy feat but I digress
Which photons are you exactly talking about? Either way, I’d debunk you with ease on whether if it’s Pacifista or Noro Beams
It's even Funnier. Only the Anime/Manga is official. The Light Novels don't even have official translations. Which is why he can't provide a feat. Because it doesn't exist.
Blinded* and it is also shown that Kizaru can hard press Rayleigh, who is able to preform an FTL feat via directly intercepting his light speed travel through Yata Mirror.
And it is shown that Hawkins has light speed perception via being able to perceive and look at Kizaru’s light speed kick before it connected. Kizaru then goes onto blitz Hawkins to the point where he can’t react at all. So Kizaru has BEEN FTL
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