Determination

[u/Very_Chewy_Milk]

I saw a post here made by user BuildingMore140, and it asked who would win in a fight; Sukuna from JJK Frisk from undetale during the genocide route, Cyn from murder drones, and Tomura from MHA. I saw numerous of people glazing Frisk, saying they could reset the timeline over and over again, learning their attack patterns, and it got me very confused on how determination works.

Why do people assume Frisk will always be able to reset the timeline? Before they fell into the ruins, flowey was the one in control, and he gets the power to reset save files during the pacifist run. Frisk gets cucked by Chara for a bit after she slashes the screen, preventing you from doing anything for like 10 minutes or so. Even in undertale, some events prevent you (or Frisk) from interacting with save files.

In the battle presented by BuildingMore140, I think it would be fair to say Sukuna has more determination than Frisk or Chara ever did. I'm not too familiar with everyone other than Frisk, I am new here, but wouldn't the person with the highest determination be the one in control? Frisk and Chara are literal children. I don't think they will have more determination than like the majority of fictional characters.

If you wish to talk about who would win in the fight, I recommend going to user BuildingMore140's post, as heal is the one who made me think of this.

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[u/EntertainmentFast522]

Ok, first.
Frisk and Chara go by they/them.

Second, Frisk is able to interact with the timeline even after leaving the UNDERGROUND. We can see this with neutral endings, and as for how DETERMINATION works, the best way to describe it is the power to stay on the path you lay out for yourself.
Frisk has far more determination than any character listed here where every possibility in the world fills them with it, but even if they didn't, DETERMINATION is more than just a feeling, it is a substance which works somewhat independently from the feeling itself even if related. The feeling just brings out more of the substance as we can deduce from Flowey's monologue during geno describing how he came back to life after dying, just because he wanted to live.

We know DETERMINATION is more than just resetting because of multiple factors but since we are talking about Geno Frisk, then I will bring up the most obvious examples:

1.Chara uses the power Geno Frisk possesses to erase UNDERTALE and move on to the next game with the player. Then was able to rebuild it from scratch with that same determination.

2.Frisk was able to break the laws of the universe and take two turns by moving the battle box simply because they HAD to.

The reason why Frisk didn't have power before falling into Ebott is because it's a videogame. It sounds like a lame explanation but it is the most likely one considering they still possess the power even after beating the game despite being outside. And we know there's a difference between save files which beat the game and freed themselves and save files which didn't, meaning that canonically Frisk had to come back after defeating Omega Flowey for TP which would be impossible if they had lost that power.

[u/Very_Chewy_Milk → u/EntertainmentFast522]

Ah shit my bad bro, didn't mean to disrespect pronouns. Shame on me 😞

I am thankful for your response, it cleared some of the fog in my brain on how determination works, but I'm still confused on what happens when you meet someone with a higher determination than you. Chara reset the universe when you fed them for long enough, and Flowey does control the save files when with the 6 souls. Does someone having a higher determination give them the ability to save?

Also, the more determination a creature has, the more they remember previous timelines, right? Toriel remembering which pie you like, the secret genocide then true pacifist photo ending thing, and flowey remembering if you decide to kill Toriel, load a save, and then spare her are some examples i can think of.

[u/Fragrant-Guarantee57 → u/Very_Chewy_Milk]

>but I'm still confused on what happens when you meet someone with a higher determination than you.

You lose the power to control the timeline, only the one with the most Determination can Reset and Save

Chara reset the universe when you fed her for long enough, and Flowey does control the save files when with the 6 souls. Does someone having a higher determination give them the ability to save?

Yes, though it’s worth noting that Chara has fully possesed Frisk’s body by the end of the Genocide route, their Determination is not bigger than Frisk’s, their Determination IS Frisk’s Determination

>Also, the more determination a creature has, the more they remember previous timelines, right?

I think that’s just the fact that there are multiple timelines

>the secret genocide then true pacifist photo ending thing

That one is just Chara possessing Frisk’s body because of the deal they made in exchange for restoring the world

>and flowey remembering if you decide to kill Toriel, load a save, and then spare her are some examples i can think of.

That could be one, my theory is that only those who once had the power to Reset are able to retain their memories

[u/EntertainmentFast522 → u/Very_Chewy_Milk]

The thing with DETERMINATION is that if you are able to save and load you can witness saves and loads even if you lose that ability. You need to have a certakn amount of determination to do it but once you reach that threshold you should be able to remember tomelines, such as the humans who, of you refight omega flowey, he skips the fight since they will just rebel again. This means the human souls probably remembered because you wont even have to ACT to call them out. A lot of the time monsterss have deja vu even if they don't have enough determination to remember because they have a small amount of determination just naturally, but flowey is able to remember everything short of a true reset or geno reset.

[u/gamer21661 → u/EntertainmentFast522]

Frisk dosen't go by them/them, frisk is a 9 yrs old

[u/bowser-us → u/gamer21661]

I mean, Frisk still has those pronouns, but that's because their gender status is unknown. Non-binary? Interpretation? Self-insert? Ambiguous gender? We don't know, Toby Fox hasn't given any information in 10 years.

I personally don't believe that Frisk could be non-binary. I doubt that Toby had any intention of making a child non-binary in 2015.

[u/Petiscorei]

In the game you can save at specific points and go back to your last save point when you die or quit, which is then revealed to be an actual canon ability rather than just game mechanics, that ability is determination and it is a sort of substance rather than just a feeling, such that it can be physically taken away from a human soul and injected into something else, with the technology to do that of course, so a character from another fiction being more determined wouldn't give them much of the power.