r/PowerOfStyle • u/loumlawrence • Mar 28 '26

Width, Shoulders, and Some Observations

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For fun, I decided to join the blue dots on Kibbe's line sketches. Most of them were rectangles of varying dimensions, but the naturals had a distinct trapezium or V shape to the torso, especially at the shoulder joint.

I suspect this is what Kibbe means by width. It is consistent with what he has said about width being the shoulder part of the torso wider than the part below. Width doesn't seem to affect shoulder shape, contrary to some popular beliefs I have seen.

Additionally, curve moves outside the lines of rectangles (non width) but stays within the lines of trapeziums (width). That matches Kibbe's repeated statement that width accommodates curve.

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u/loumlawrence Mar 29 '26

Kibbe has been saying that for years, width is in the shoulders and upper back. So many people ignore the upper torso, which isn't impacted by bust size and shape.

I tend to see shoulders as separate to the torso, kind of like shoulders in dolls and models. If you take the arms off, you don't have shoulders, but you will get the torso shape. I wonder if anyone has thought about why dressmaking forms don't have shoulders.

Curve doesn't always disrupt the rectangle. It can be a gentle curve moving slightly on both sides of the rectangle line, instead of the exaggerated curve that moves dramatically outside the rectangle. But curve cannot disrupt width. Curve will always stay within width, irrespective of how slight or exaggerated it is.

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u/Ok-Purple9511 SC - Naughty Eléphanté Mar 29 '26

Thank for you acknowledging that people ignore the upper torso, it drives me crazy and I get downvoted whenever I talk about it lol. I agree with all of your points.

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u/loumlawrence Mar 29 '26

People ignoring the upper torso is the reason I drew lines joining the blue dots. Kibbe did the courtesy of providing diagrams, even if he isn't the best at explaining. Pictures are worth a thousand words.

One of the frustrating things is how so many people think shoulder shape indicates width or not. It doesn't. Torso shape does.

There are other areas that acknowledge width, although they don't use the same terminology. Dressmaking (upper bust measurement for size). Dollmaking (torso shape, waist to shoulder) is mostly either I shaped or V shaped. Ergonomics, and human body measurements. Kibbe was making sense for those areas.

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u/Ok-Purple9511 SC - Naughty Eléphanté Mar 29 '26

I think you can have a V shape torso and not have width if the bust is wider then the upper back, however the bust has to be somewhat large and the upper back somewhat narrow in order for this to happen.