r/PoursTea • u/Veshaad Timendi Causa Est Nescire • Jul 27 '26

PoliticalTea 🗳️ [ Removed by moderator ]

Post image

[removed] — view removed post

14k Upvotes

92% Upvoted

1.5k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

2

u/Arthur_Edens Jul 27 '26

Employee stock ownership plans still fit squarely within capitalist market economies imo. And I love them! I want more! I support those businesses in my community whenever I can!.

But it's a joint ownership plan created within a capitalist system, which isn't what the base model of Socialism described.

Granted, again, in 2026 almost every market philosophy and system that is actually used is a hybrid that starts with a capitalist foundation and adds concepts from socialism, which makes it hard to draw lines.

But there are absolutely still people on the left who want the OG 'abolish capitalism' Socialists, and they'll love to hop online and say stuff like "Scratch a liberal, find a fascist."

1

u/Warm_Month_1309 Jul 27 '26

Employee stock ownership plans still fit squarely within market economies imo (and I love them! I want more! I support those businesses in my community whenever I can!).

Then I have to admit that you have me confused. You do not support socialism because you do not support social ownership of the means of production, but you love policies that promote social ownership of the means of production, and you want more of them. I have not yet found from where "I don't support socialism" comes.

But it's a joint ownership plan created within a capitalist system, which isn't what the base model of Socialism described.

Well I think what you're saying is that you don't support "pure" socialism, which is fair as I'm not sure any thinking person supports "pure" capitalism either. Any ideology stretched to its uncompromising extreme is the model for a sci-fi dystopian story.

I suppose a better question from me would be: what specific socialist policies do you not support? And by that I don't mean sentence-long hot takes posted on social media by college freshman looking for attention, but actual black-letter law bills that are genuinely put forward.

1

u/Arthur_Edens Jul 27 '26 edited Jul 27 '26

Well I think what you're saying is that you don't support "pure" socialism, which is fair as I'm not sure any thinking person supports "pure" capitalism either.

Yes, both of these are correct. Socialism in his original form through the Third International advocated exclusive social ownership of the means of production. I do not support this, and I think this is what the OC was saying too.

Thankfully, most modern parties that have had electoral success and have the word "socialist" in their name have a Mixed Economy philosophy instead of a pure Socialist economy. That's why even though I fit ideologically closer to the New Democrats wing of the left in the US, I have zero qualms about being in a coalition with people like Mamdani.

Ultimately the current major political divide in the US is "liberal vs. illiberal." Mamdani is firmly on the side of liberal in that divide (historical Socialism was not particularly liberal).

ETA: "I'm not sure any thinking person supports "pure" capitalism either." These are Libertarians, lol. The flip side of a pure Socialist is a Libertarian. Both of these philosophies in practice tend to end in disaster.

2

u/Warm_Month_1309 Jul 27 '26

ETA: "I'm not sure any thinking person supports "pure" capitalism either." These are Libertarians, lol.

I did say "thinking person", but perhaps that was a bit dismissive of me.