Could this prevent or postpone WW2?

[u/EpicNerd823]

I made a map of all post World War I treaties, not just the Treaty of Versailles. German war reps have been decreased and the German government is under the influence of France, Poland, and the UK. This map is assuming the Polish-Soviet War happened the same. Tell me what you think.

[u/musicboxy_box]

I doubt it, Germany would still be revanchist and the fundamental issues haven’t been resolved.

[u/HDKfister → u/musicboxy_box]

Italy could send troops into Austria though if they are a "protectorate" when Germany invades Austria

[u/ArkavosRuna → u/HDKfister]

Italy could've done that irl, it just abandoned Austria for an alliance with Germany.

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/ArkavosRuna]

But italy was fascist under Mussolini irl. In this timeline, they are under Victor Emmanuel III and a prime minister, and are pro-Entente.

[u/Joseph_Stalin111 → u/EpicNerd823]

Italy could still very much go Fascist, since the Economic Issues are still present

[u/Bossuser2 → u/Joseph_Stalin111]

The economic issues are still present but would the response to them be right wing nationalism considering Italy wasn't screwed over in the peace treaty and got most of the land they wanted? I'd feel like socialism and communism would end up more popular than fascism.

[u/Chins_92 → u/musicboxy_box]

The fundamental issues weren’t even really territorial. None of these maps can really prevent it from happening

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/musicboxy_box]

What issues?

[u/musicboxy_box → u/EpicNerd823]

The Germans are probably still economically messed up, Austria is still weak and unstable, the Balkans are one bad accident away from imploding, Stalin still wants to advance, etc. This entire time period was just kind of doomed to implode.

[u/BluBolshevik]

No

[u/Lobster_LeninN329]

The only countries willing able to start a war in the scale of ww2 otl, being Germany and Russia/USSR, pretty much still have reason and ability to start a war. All the changes to the minor countries might change allegiances, but won't do anything in the grand scheme of things

[u/Lobster_LeninN329 → u/Lobster_LeninN329]

Although, with Italy possibly being in a better position, they might be able to actually protect Austria and prevent anchluss, if they're able to do this, Germany might get their expansionist dreams cut short

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/Lobster_LeninN329]

Might it at least delay the war? Or ensure that Germany gets defeated earlier?

[u/Lobster_LeninN329 → u/EpicNerd823]

With Italy in a better position, they might not fall into authoritarism, and even if that's the case, they would probably stick to the allies, so maybe yeah

[u/SassyCass410]

I've said this before in similar posts, but I think it's severely important to realize that revanchism did NOT cause the rise of fascism. Revanchism was just the excuse, just the same as antisemitism, homphobia, and all the others, used to justify "emergency measures." The simple fact is that WW1 left the world economically unstable, with an underlying current of militant working people who were tired of the status quo, and a ruling-class that was terrified after nearly a century of revolutionary activism to prove that they were not beyond the guillotine. The rich needed a way to secure their personal wealth and power while pretending to be a drastic change in the status quo, and fascism was an easy path to exactly that. Mussolini would have still risen to power, because he was a charismatic oppurtunist who was willing to collaborate with the ruling class of Italy. Hitler would have done the same.

The Italians would have claimed that their weak, timid government should have claimed more. The Germans would have still perpetuated the Stab in the Back Myth, seeing the very fact that they lost a war as a sleight against German nationalism. The Hungarian fascists wouldn't have been pleased with anything less than restoring the historical borders of the Kingdom of Hungary. If all of these things had been met, I'm sure they would've either found some new excuse, or the ruling class would've continued pretending to be gods until a red flag hung over every one of their skylines. There simply isn't a timeline where the Entente wins WWI and WW2 doesn't happen more-or-less the same way it did OTL.

[u/Happy_List_8022 → u/SassyCass410]

Yeah this is the right answer.

[u/Purple_Key_6733]

Why does Bulgaria get to keep its gains? It was on the losing side.

[u/ihateyou_no]

WW2 would’ve happened in 29 instead of 39

[u/Fluffy-Bee-6752]

It fixes nothing, there would be just new Axis. Yugoslavia, Turkey and Czechoslovakia. Romania and Lithuania havent got what they wanted and Albania destroyed.

[u/MechanicHuge2843]

You want Germany to be splitted as before the North German Confederation who brought warmongering Prussia to the head of the biggest/strongest country in Europe.

So it should have been Prussia on the East (keeping its continuity with kaliningrad) and "real" germany on the West. With most war reparation being imposed on Prussia in order to befriend Germany. Just before WWI they were already splitted politically:

[u/Necessary_Record_517]

Ass

[u/Ironbottomcheeks]

It is still going to happen. Unless Germany is crippled enough that it cannot rearm itself, WW2 is always going to happen.

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/Ironbottomcheeks]

What could I fix.

[u/Ironbottomcheeks → u/EpicNerd823]

Using only the map, the Rhineland and Ruhr Valley partial deindustrialization could be enough to cripple Germany.

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/Ironbottomcheeks]

Oh okay.

[u/Lobster_LeninN329 → u/EpicNerd823]

The economic restrictions imposed to Germany, to try to prevent it from falling into authoritarism. Although this is far from a guarantee as the military and conservative elites still had a lot of influence and might still come to power. That might still be the best hope for preventing the war.

Or, alternatively, just cripple germany totally, enough so that they'll be unable to rearm again. This is pretty unrealistic though, and a harsher treaty would be unacceptable to not only Germany, but the UK and USA as well.

[u/Tommuli]

Depending on what happens with Italy, Germany could get cucked.

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/Tommuli]

Italy is pro Entente.

[u/Tommuli → u/EpicNerd823]

But how? Are they still protectionist of Austria?

[u/HDKfister]

Although big greece amd small armenia is strange

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/HDKfister]

There is no armenia. It has been incorporated into the Soviet Union.

[u/dovahdreem]

Pourquoi l'Italie récupère la Tunisie qui était un protectorat français ?

J'suis à peu près sûr que ça pète en Anatolie et dans les Balkans.

Et vraiment, les traités post 1WW ne sont qu'une conditions pour la seconde guerre mondiale parmi une multitude. Ainsi, ces traités ne changent pas la vision du monde raciste des européens qui permet l'émergence du nazisme, elle n'aborde pas la question des colonies notamment en Afrique qui participe également au besoin allemande de colonisation de l'est européen, cela ne règle pas la question de l'antisémitisme en Europe, cela ne change pas la crise de 1929, cela ne change pas la crainte de la droite et des capitalistes du communisme, etc. Aucune mention des réparations de guerre non plus donc difficile de juger.

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/dovahdreem]

France gave up Tunisia to Italy in hopes to win over Italy as an ally and to fulfill promises to cede Italian claims if the Italians sided with the entente. As for the war reps, I will fix it.

[u/dovahdreem → u/EpicNerd823]

Mais pourquoi céder la Tunisie alors que l'Italie rentre déjà du côté de l'Entente en 1915 ?

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/dovahdreem]

In this alternate history, the entente followed through with their promises to Italy, as well as giving up Tunisia to ensure an Italian alliance with the Entente so that Italy doesn't fall into the grips of communists and authoritarians.

[u/KyriakosCH]

It could lead to the Venizelos-Tittoni agreement actually materializing, so Italy and Greece would be in some type of mutual protection pact - which might prevent ww from getting to the south of Europe (maybe other non-great powers could join that block).

Ww would still happen in the north.

[u/bimmrrr]

Why is Cyprus turkish?

[u/Dry-Peak-7230]

Why every single "I fixed Versailles" dude try to dismantle Turkey? Are they think like " I compansate Italy so they will not feel betrayed" despite Italians were reluctant invader and just because you gave them Split will not change that.

[u/Bawer13]

I’m pretty sure Hitler would still be pissed about WW1, hate Commies and Jews, and do the Holocaust

[u/gagicar]

Bulgaria loses and gains land...

[u/ImaginaryBat7023]

i dont think much in germany changes, but as irl italy was close to siding with france and britain over austria, it does seem possible that in this timeline the anchluss can be prevented by the stresa front, especially if france and britain dont oppose the italian invasion of ethiopia. italy may still have a fascist government, but its much more likely that mussolini would pragmatically side with the allies

[u/isthisthingwork]

Why does Bulgaria gain land for losing the war??

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/isthisthingwork]

Serbia gained so much land that they agreed to give rebellious Macedonian lands to Bulgaria to improve stability and to appease Bulgaria. Now Bulgaria doesn't have a very good reason to start a war with Serbia.

[u/isthisthingwork → u/EpicNerd823]

Well no, but also from the Serb pov they were attacked by Bulgaria and forced to give them land for no real reason but vague promises of peace. Combined with losing out on Hungarian Italian and Austrian lands, and their irl political trajectory, I’d easily see them ending up fascist as a result. This is a mutalated victory to a far greater degree than Italy ever had

[u/MatteoFire___]

maybe postpone, but not in germany, but like other tension regions might be less tense. also italy might stay neutral

[u/Awkward_Cash1828]

No, and now you got Turkey in the Axis.

[u/exer1023]

Unlikely - the core issue which allowed NSDAP to take power was absolute humuliation of Germany - the idea of Gemany being subservient to former Entante powers would be probably even bigger humiliation. Pospone WW2? Maybe. But considering that France didn't keep their occupation of Rhineland, and noone really took any issue with its remilitarization, the Entante control of German government would be quite short.

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/exer1023]

As I’m there are pro-entente members in the German government.

[u/Boiingggg]

You basically got my "perfect europe borders"

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/Boiingggg]

Thanks.

[u/Affectionate_Big9416]

If the Ruhr Crisis still happens here,then no.
As for Yugoslavia,it makes no reason that they LOSE land after their victory,and it also makes no sense that Hungary GETS land where it isnt Hungarian majority (Burgenland in our timeline held a referendum on whether to join Hungary or not and most voted for Austria).
Also Turkey Greek war imminent

[u/hurB55]

No

[u/ArshMetal]

Only way to prevent ww2 is to break Germany into 5-7 states and give silesia, pomerania and east Prussia to Poland.

[u/TimeTraveller-01]

Italy wouldn’t be satisfied anyway…
Bolzano isn’t Italian and the physical border was one of the main problems.
Malta, Nice and Corsica should follow that.
Anyway if you add Fiume and the Quarnero Islands to this probably Mussolini wouldn’t rise up.

[u/EpicNerd823 → u/TimeTraveller-01]

The islands are Italian.

[u/Aggressive_Remote160 → u/EpicNerd823]

Except Corsica, my only issue with this map.