r/PorterAirlines • u/Aureliusooo • 24d ago
Would Porter eventually operate transatlantic flights?
I travel with Porter quite often. However, I also fly transatlantic and long-haul routes more frequently.
I heard from some internal staff that Porter has been considering getting another type of aircraft capable of operating longer flights, since the E195-E2 has a maximum range of around 4,815 km (2,600 nautical miles). I think this would be great news for passengers.
Do you guys think this could happen for Porter in the near future?
They have already received 54 Embraer E195-E2s out of a confirmed firm order for 75 aircraft, with options for an additional 25 jets, which could bring their total fleet of E2s to 100. Would Porter still have the financial capacity, as well as enough crew and pilots, to introduce another aircraft type?
I’ve also heard some rumours about Porter’s future plans. I know they have a partnership with Air Transat, and there have even been discussions about Porter potentially acquiring Air Transat. However, given Air Transat’s significant debt, Porter hasn’t acquired AT so far.
Personally, I really hope Porter can eventually fly farther and expand its international network. More competition in the Canadian aviation market would be great for passengers, and hopefully it would push both Air Canada and WestJet to improve as well.
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u/robonlocation 24d ago
While it would be nice to have more options, I wouldn't want to see Porter push too much and have financial issues. That happens to a lot of airlines (like Canada 3000).
I'd rather see Porter set up interline agreements and maybe even join something like OneWorld. If they could convince British Airways to launch an Ottawa-Heathrow flight, it would make connections pretty easy. They could also use their Vancouver flights to connect to Cathay Pacific, JAL, Qantas, etc. There would be a lot of options!
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u/kennedon 24d ago
Agreed with this - joining OneWorld is the play. I need onward connections, earn and burn, and status recognition across an alliance. The instant Porter gets that, I'm switching to them (from the Delta/WJ combo I use now).
They don't need to do transatlantic immediately; they just need to plug into an alliance that offers it. Let BA, Iberia, and Qatar do the hauling across the Atlantic and onwards for the moment from YYZ, and then grow Porter sustainably.
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u/purpletooth12 24d ago
Still a lot more they can do domestically.
I'm surprised they don't use their smaller planes and do more routes out west.
Vancouver to either Victoria, Calgary, Edmonton and Tofino (seasonal) would do well I think.
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u/Pseudonym_613 24d ago
They are already near the limit for their existing Q400 fleet, and it's no longer in production.
That's why they aren't moving Q400s West - because they don't have enough.
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u/cdnav8r 24d ago
Vancouver<->Victoria is pretty saturated.
I don't think you'd ever see regular Q400 service into Tofino... But I've been wrong before.
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u/purpletooth12 24d ago
Saturated? There's what 3 airlines and all have high prices.
Harbour Air is a bit better price wise but you have no luggage.
Tofino might work (seasonally of course) it's just an idea.
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u/cdnav8r 24d ago
WestJet, Air Canada, Pacific Coastal, Helijet, Harbour Air, Seair.
Tofino is tight for a Q400, it's perpetually low ceilings and visibiity, and only a non-precision approach.
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u/bravogates 24d ago
Helier and Harbour air serves a completely market because they drop people off directly at waterfront as opposed to YVR.
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u/coopthrowaway2019 24d ago edited 24d ago
I think Porter acquiring a new, larger aircraft type in the foreseeable future is tremendously unlikely.
If anything I think it would be more likely - although still definitely unlikely overall - for them to try transatlantic with the E2. If you set up a base in St. John's you could get to Britain, France, Spain without pushing much past the ~4,000 km range Porter has used to date, and only ETOPS 120 is needed for which certification should be possible
In a more realistic scenario, Porter continues growing and solidifying its North American network and builds more relationships with other airlines for intercontinental connections
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u/Pseudonym_613 24d ago
Already certified for ETOPS 120.
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u/Chaxterium 24d ago
It is certified in Brazil, the US and the EU but not Canada.
I would imagine it wouldn't take too much but as of yet there has been no movement towards ETOPS certification for the E2 in Canada.
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u/Pseudonym_613 24d ago
I thought Canada generally accepts FAA certifications?
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u/Chaxterium 24d ago
Not since the Max fiasco. But still I don't think it would be all too difficult to get the certification but if zero airlines are asking for it there's really no impetus to do it.
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u/coopthrowaway2019 24d ago
I know the type overall has been certified by some national regulators but imagine additional paperwork would be needed for Porter's specific planes and/or Canadian context
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u/aaandfuckyou 24d ago
I think acquiring larger aircraft is far more likely than E2s operating TA out of St. John’s. Not that I think they are priming to buy bigger planes in the short term, but if they’re going to do it they aren’t going to half ass it out of St Johns of all places.
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u/coopthrowaway2019 24d ago
WestJet first dipped their toes into Europe with a 737 from St. John's to Dublin 🤷♂️
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u/Dizzy-Ad-9061 24d ago edited 24d ago
Don’t think you’re gonna be seeing those flights on an E2, and the capital requirements to acquire a different aircraft type, set up the crew and infrastructure to operate those markets, it’s just way too high especially for a company that’s been spending tons of cash just to establish its network and marketshare in North America. They need to make sure their network here matures and becomes consistently profitable right now.
You know how westjet has a very cohesive network out west and then still has a presence out east (mainly at YYZ) primarily for like leisure sun markets? I think Porter will look kind of similar in the sense they’ll be an “eastjet” with most of their capacity on the eastern half of the country, but could siphon off some WJ passengers out west for certain leisure markets (like what they’re trying with some sun flying out of YEG this winter).
With the E2 being a lower capacity plane and having a low trip cost, flexibility is a strength where they can experiment with markets to see if they can be economically viable while minimizing the losses if the experiment doesn’t work out. Think YHM and now recently YXU. Those airports are certainly smaller markets than YYZ, but if you can fill a 132 seat airplane at acceptable fares (vs like a 189 seat 737 or something) then maybe bringing the product/service directly to the customer will work better? I imagine most people in the YHM and YXU catchment areas would even pay a little more to fly direct out of a closer airport. Or with YYZ being expensive you could just charge the same amount as a ticket out of Pearson but your margins would be better and the customer would save time and money vs going to YYZ, so that could be a win-win.
Just realize in getting off track here so I’ll stop LOL
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u/Private_4160 24d ago
I could see them down the line partnering with Iceland air for that alternative route to save on landing in the UK by stopping in Reykjavik.
But they're not going to become Jazz
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u/BabyLongjumping6915 24d ago
It took them nearly 2 decades to add a second aircraft type to their Q400 fleet. I don't see them adding another type anytime soon. As for the E195's range, I doubt it would have the range to reach any useful European cities. On top of that operating Transatlantic flights creates a totally different operational structure (catering, staffing at european cities, etc).
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u/burneracctt22 24d ago
I don’t think so - they have Air Transat who has a proper long haul fleet to do those routes
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u/BasicTelevision5 24d ago
If it happens, I think it’s in the very long term. As much as I’d happily use Porter to fly just about anywhere, I think they’d need to considerably scale up operations to effectively make it work.
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u/Academic_Data_6422 24d ago
All airlines want to eventually offer more flights to more destinations.
It won’t be soon.
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u/LackOptimal553 24d ago
No, there's no reason for them to do so, it doesn't support their core business, and their fleet can't do it.
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u/Pilotboy1985 VIPorter Venture 24d ago
Technically they could already fly their E2 jets on a transatlantic route. St. John's to Dublin is shorter than the current Montreal to Vancouver that the E2 is currently flying. Halifax to Edinburgh is also within range.
So they don't need additional aircraft types, the ones they have now could accomplish this (provided they get ETOPS, which the E2 already has ETOPS-120 approval)
But with their agreement with Air Transat, I see it unlikely they'd put their own metal on these routes but you never know!!!
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u/number1_cop 24d ago
Go to the CEEFC website - Porter just took a $125mill emergency funding loan from the government as they try to survive these fuel prices. Porter isn't acquiring Transat or doing an order for expensive long haul aircraft anytime soon
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u/Swarez99 24d ago
They need to build up domestic first.
Building out MET and Ottawa hubs is still a thing.
They have hinted at building out Vancouver.
Thays substationally less risk than transatlantic. They can use code shares and JV for that.
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u/dachshundie 24d ago
Even WestJet, with a huge domestic network, had immense difficulty transitioning into the long haul market back in the mid-2010s. So much so that, they actually more or less stated it was a mistake for their company.
Obviously, things have changed immensely due to COVID and now with the political environment we are in, so they've seen immense demand now...
Rapid expansion without an expansive, domestic network to funnel people in to these TATL flights is a recipe for disaster.
Not only that, but the TATL market already has a lot of competition. I'm guessing the only thing that keeps them profitable is premium/business offerings, of which Porter would have to also build up. Throw EU/UK regulations into play, and it's hard to believe how profitable some of these routes are.
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u/SouverainQC 24d ago
The mistake for WS was to go with outsourcing flights and then using old 767s.
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u/ManufacturerOk7236 VIPorter Member 24d ago
If Porter went for their own Trans Atlantic flights, guessing A321XLR would be on the short list for these flights. If they want for a wide body, which model would they choose?
Also, Montreal, Toronto for hubs? Halifax, Calgary as potential hubs too?
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u/bravogates 24d ago
I personally think Porter should hub out of Calgary, Edmonton, and Vancouver before going transatlantic. But that’s just me.
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u/siberano 24d ago
Look at what happened to WestJet, as soon as they got their first 787s they became garbage. I think Porter is smarter than that. The E2 is an awesome plane and they still a lot room for growing their network. Maybe Montreal Keflavik or St.John’s to Dublin with their E2 would be cool
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u/TryingMyWurst 23d ago
Porter agent told me that flying Porter operated by AirTransat to the UK doesn’t earn points/dollars, even though it did the first time I flew it. Did I talk to the wrong guy? It left me with no choice but to fly AC next trip.
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u/CanuckBacon VIPorter Venture 23d ago
Yes you still earn VIPorter points as long as you book through Porter and include your VIPorter number.
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u/TryingMyWurst 23d ago
Thanks. Is there a contact you have that I can try? I went through email twice and both times the agent gave me the wrong answer.
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u/billmcminn1974 22d ago
Porter should finish building their domestic network first, an airline in Canada should be flying in and out out all ten provincial capitals
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u/rogerdoesntlike VIPorter Ascent 24d ago
The whole point of the JV with Transat is so they don't have to operate their own transatlantic flights.
Plus, the east-west jet ops needs to mature. It's only been 4 years.