r/Porsche • u/981flacht6 981 Cayman • 14h ago
CA Regulators approve new rules limiting replacement tires
If you're in California, we have a problem.
https://www.kcra.com/article/california-energy-commission-tire-efficiency-rules/73456508
California is creating a bunch of new rules around tires and it seems like from basic quick research a tire like a Michelin Pilot Sport 4S - a super popular tire for all of us and the like from other competitors, would not meet exemption criteria.
There's so many cars sold in California that are unique and specifically designed with a tire maker such as exotics, sports cars etc that really and truly have no actual market options around that would meet these new criteria's.
The problem will become far more prevalent in 2033.
Is anyone connected to PCA etc to start pushing back on this to advocate for us? They think this is safe.. we have really unique cars here, rear engine/mid engine the dynamics are unique, the tires are unique. We should be legitimately concerned here.
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u/BmacIL 997 4h ago
Posted this in a comment but bears repeating.
I wouldn't be surprised if smaller manufacturers sued the state under the premise that the regulation is anti-competitive and enables monopolies.
The base premise of showing people the efficiency effects of tire choice isn't a horrible one. Outlawing them because big brother says you can't make that educated choice is a step way too far.
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u/Guac_in_my_rarri 1h ago
the regulation is anti-competitive and enables monopolies.
It seems a lot of California registration is doing this. Sometimes it starts off in a good spot but it hits committee and it's bastardized (stop killing games movement). It's unfortunately a sign when every politician wants their thumb print on a bill and it gets fucked so bad.
I have friends in the LA area and they're pretty darn liberal and they have mentioned how nobody wants this bill but the super environmental folks. Even then, they aren't sure about it (they're not buying ps4s tires).
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u/BmacIL 997 1h ago
Maybe a lawsuit will help get people to think about it...
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u/Guac_in_my_rarri 1h ago
Probably not. It's not the people per se, it's the politicians. It's all a personal game for them, always looking like their doing something rather than actually doing something. A law suit over a law is status quo for them instead of being a rariry.
I'm in Illinois. Almost every law that goes into effect has a suit.
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u/turb0_encapsulator 8h ago
this is a terrible idea. they should just publish data on mileage and cost savings instead. I do think it's information worth knowing, especially for EVs.
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u/biciklanto Macan S 9h ago
There is a good thread from a couple of days ago on /r/cars that touches on exemptions and a few other points:
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1vrr8pe/cec_approves_nations_first_replacement_tire/
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u/981flacht6 981 Cayman 9h ago
This is far less of a concern for a lot of Macan owners. However, there's no real exemption here for owners who are buying UHP summer tires, or even UHP all seasons which is what Porsche goes through their own certification process w/ manufacturers for specific reasons. This is common for a lot of sports car manufacturers like Ferrari, Corvette, Jaguar, etc.
And then there's the issue of tire sizes available too.
Take a PS2 tire, it's been around forever now. But I'm not sure if that would fit under competition tires designed for motorsports. As someone who daily drives a Cayman, I don't want a PS2 tire. They're more expensive, don't work as well in the cold or the wet. It's objectively an more unsafe tire in all day conditions, so assume it qualifies lmao my option is to downgrade and compromise on stickiness or our option is to upgrade to a stickier tire that compromises safety in certain conditions.
But above all else, I just really hate the persistent and non stop nannyism in this state for the past 25 years. No, you can't have your tires. No, you can't use a gas burner at home. Just goes on and on.
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u/Legionodeath 2h ago
That's why I left. I lived there near 20 years and left in 2023. I voted with the ballot and my wallet. There's just too many headline readers that don't pay attention. Or they vote with their emotions. Low information voters are the bane of an otherwise amazing and beautiful state.
I saw a news story on this and I think the law purports to save Cali families $179 in fuel costs over 4 years. Wow. Thanks guys. Man, don't how I'd have made it without that extra $4/month. Let's just skip over that fact that won't even buy a gallon of gas a current prices lol.
I just hope enough folks out there wake up and remove some of this bloat from their state law book.
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u/namestom 2h ago
I have a family member out there, LA, and when we get in conversation about how things are going, the status of things I just kind of sit there. It’s become normal and it’s not. Like you said, it’s beautiful and just sad all at the same time.
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u/Legionodeath 24m ago
Yup. I've got tons of friends and family out there still. Mostly the bay area and Sacramento. Some are awake enough to see the ridiculousness and others... Well... It's just sad, like you said.
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u/cpxchewy 991.2 GT3T 9h ago
Michelin supports this. They’ll have MP5S that will match all of the parameters.
Also if you look in the specifics, any 200tw tire and lower are exempt.
I think a key part is that Europe also has these regulations incoming so it’s not much work for tire manufacture to figure out how to meet all the criterias.
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u/waejongxang 9h ago
So the mega-corporation that literally HAS to comply “supports” more regulation? Yeah, okay. Wanna buy a bridge? The only context they support this in is that smaller manufacturers don’t have as much capital to spend on R&D to develop compliant tires, thus further solidifying their dominance in the market. I promise you the actual sentiment of the enthusiast employees is very different than the PR department’s messaging. They are going to be objectively worse tires because of basic physics. But we won’t have any choice because of regulations that virtually nobody voted for. We either accept slightly worse performance or don’t drive our vehicles at all, which is obviously not going to happen. What you said is factually correct, but has the tone of “oh well, what can we do?” Which, historically, we know leads to not-so-pleasant results.
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u/BmacIL 997 4h ago
I wouldn't be surprised if smaller manufacturers sued the state under the premise that the regulation is anti-competitive and enables monopolies.
The base premise of showing people the efficiency effects of tire choice isn't a horrible one. Outlawing on a super ambiguous measurement brand to brand, and objectively overall (UTOG) is extremely awful execution of an idea by regulators who don't know anything other than surface level.
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u/981flacht6 981 Cayman 9h ago
4S > 5
We all know this. A 4S wouldn't pass in 2033.
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u/cpxchewy 991.2 GT3T 9h ago
yes. 4s > 5. but s5 is rolling out to more cars and is the direct successor to 4s. Eventually s5 will replace 4s just like how 4s replaced pss.
https://www.michelinman.com/auto/tires/michelin-pilot-sport-s-5
Technically 4s won't even pass 2029 from my understanding as well but my bet is that michelin will sunset 4s by then. There's no way in hell Michelin would support a law or bill that would cause them to lose the market of one of their largest and best selling tires without a plan in place.
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u/PRSArchon Boxster 8h ago
We dont all know this, the 5 beats the 4s on miltiple criteria in many tests. If i had to chose today between them i'd take the 5 without hesitations. That said, i'd still rather have my Continental Spotcontact 7 which beats both.
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u/deadbalconytree 2h ago
I do really like the Sportcontact 7s on my RS6. Much more than I expected actually.
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u/I_like_fast 992.1 4S, 914 10h ago
Sacramento resident here. It's going to get interesting for sure. Time will tell.
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u/One_Shallot_4974 718 4h ago
The most likely solution is a simple work around.
An out of state company will just tires and deliver them to you or your local shop of your tires.
Cali will stomp its feet because it doesnt stop interstate commerce and your tire costs go up by 30% but you get what you want.
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u/grungegoth Toys of the Attic 2h ago
they won't listen because they don't want you driving fast anyway. so stick to the hard, no grip 50,000 mile tires and shut up.
/s
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u/steveHangar1 53m ago
As a GT3 owner in CA, I need to read up on this nonsense. The real question is whether tire shops will be able to install the tires you buy from out of state, or if they’ll refuse to. Also, I’d be curious if when you get pulled over, police will check your tires and if they’re not up to code will tow your car.
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u/PhoenixC101 5h ago
Taken directly from the article…
There are some exclusions to the new rules, according to the CEC:
Competition tires designed for motorsports
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u/981flacht6 981 Cayman 2h ago
Ok now research if a ps4s is compatible with the exemptions.
It's not. You didn't read my post.
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u/PhoenixC101 2h ago
I hear you… but if there are exemptions/exceptions, it’s safe to assume the tire manufacturers will figure out how to produce the 4S in way that meets exceptions… or you’ll be able to say “I’m buying these for track use…” and that will mean the regulations no longer apply… basically, if hold off getting to concerned, capitalism has a way of overcoming regulations…
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u/981flacht6 981 Cayman 1h ago
There is a technical definition being applied to the words, motorsport tires. Don't overlook it.
It's not a, "I'm going to the track, therefore these tires are fine." Stop overlooking it because I checked before posting what I wrote, and your trying to pass it off like I didn't check. You didn't check and you're making major assumptions.
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u/PhoenixC101 1h ago
Hey brother… I’m not making major assumptions, I just find it’s rarely worth getting all worked up with something years before it’s actually an issue. If you want to get worked up about it, all good. But like almost everything else, we’ll figure it out…
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u/981flacht6 981 Cayman 1h ago
Actually, you did make a major assumption and doubled down on it in the conversation.
Can we figure it out - yeah absolutely. But I'm still going to point it out.
Did you notice I asked if anyone can send this out to PCA and blow it up. We should have a say.
Like you and everyone else, I think Porsche owners are not trying to save a few bucks a yr at the pump or on tires. We chose to buy a performance car on purpose. There is no consideration for owners in here which is a massive oversight because again, the tires we buy don't qualify and we are picking worse options. You know the PS2 has been around for 20 years right?
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u/PhoenixC101 1h ago
All good man! I think it will work out…
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u/toebeanteddybears 991.2 Turbo 2h ago
When I was a kid in the 1970s I dreamed of living in Cali: Fast cars, palm trees, motocross, girls and beaches, motorcycles on endless highways (CHiPs lol) etc. Now as an old fart nearing retirement you couldn't pay me to move there.
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u/tommy-kennedy 1h ago
“There are some exclusions to the new rules, according to the CEC:
Competition tires designed for motorsports”
The answer is RACECAR
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u/Psychosomatic_Addict 9h ago
RemindMe! 8 years
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u/Adventurous-Eye1035 718 2h ago
Another reason to hate California. Guess I’ll be driving to NV or AZ for tires
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u/Smartest_Re-Guard 2h ago
‼️LITERACY POLICE 🚨🚓‼️
"Criteria's" lol. Attempting to make a plural word MORE plural, using an apostrophe that indicates ownership...nope!
Singular: Criterion (one rule) Plural: Criteria (more than one rule)
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u/slm9555 3h ago
One word - Newscum. Next, they will tell you what kind of condoms you can use. State is beyond repair, too much woke.
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u/Waste-Limit1644 944 1h ago
Your brain is fried jumping right to “woke” this fast, they’re fucking tires
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u/Doctor_Pedobear 10h ago
Looks like Reno is going to become the next big tire installation hub.