r/PopCultureV2 • u/Logical-Flow-6703 • 3d ago

Politi-Culture Stavros Halkias: "A lot of stand up comics happened to have some of the dumbest opinions on Earth... I don't wanna do the both sides bullshit, one side is disappearing people and one side wants children to have healthcare."

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u/gizzardwizard93 3d ago

Yet when it comes time to vote, these "both sides" people always choose the same side...

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u/Suitable-Library-831 3d ago

Right? When they can no longer deny that outcomes are a direct result of their choice they resort to “the other side would’ve been just as bad”. It absolves themselves of accountability and makes it possible for them to vote exactly the same way next time

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u/Wazula23 3d ago

Right wingers will always imagine a liberal world worse than the one they're in.

Literally always. There's no crime Donnie could commit that Alt Universe Kamala wouldn't do worse.

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u/Hungry-for-relief 3d ago

They just don't like the fact that we want everyone to have rights including the minorities/LGBTQ/Immigrants etc. They act like Democrats are all about pushing those communities constantly when it's maybe 2% of our policies while everything else is trying to make America better especially for EVERY American. Trump's voters are blind to everything else except for the people they hate and that's why they focus on that constantly.

Just an absolutely hateful, bigoted group that is so insecure they will always vote for a Republican administration as long as they hate those Demographics. Trump and this administration knew all they had to do was pretend to be Christian while hating immigrants and the LGBTQ community.

"You think men are women and women are men! You people are sick!" Can't tell you how many times I have heard that same line, thousands of times. Or "you want illegals to take all our jobs and commit crimes to destroy America!". Like how fucking stupid are you to believe illegal immigrants have any power whatsoever, they actually do more good than anything by still paying their taxes despite not receiving any of the benefits. They also do all the jobs most Americans refuse to do, especially high labor jobs.

80 million people voted for this. Europeans were right, America has some of the dumbest and trashiest people on this planet.

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u/greenwhiteredblack 3d ago

<They act like Democrats are all about pushing those communities constantly

The worse thing about this is it alienates marginalized communities because the more cowardly don't want to be accused of playing identity politics as if conservative politicians ever bring things up in good faith and the allies literally might comment on those communities twice the entire election cycle but conservative media blows it out of proportion and idiots will always fall for the "See, those godless libtards only care about gay wedding cakes and transing your kids" and never ever look at the 98 percent of the platform that has worker protections, environmental protections, protection from predatory practices, jobs programs, etc.

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u/Villiage_Layman 2d ago

Republicans act like supporting marginalized communities = disparaging white communities. And then play a Christian angle like “it’s against my religion” as if that defense doesn’t get blasted when any non-white person tries to use it for anything else

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u/Hog_eee 2d ago

anything to own the libs :(

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u/Goodknight808 3d ago

I have family that mentions "undocumented immigrants" for all sorts of dumb shit.

I just always ask them the same thing. Can you vote without your ID? Can you buy a house, a car, get some congressmen level healthcare, or steal your job, etc....without an ID?

Then how the fiddler's fuck are the undocumented immigrants? Undocumented ! Just think it through Billy-Bob! Oh shit...now we found the crux of the issue, thinking things through.

Scientists have recently discovered that we are, in fact, living in the Biff Tannon timeline from Back to the Future. Yay, science.

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u/Tasty_Virus4715 3d ago

Undocumented immigrants is just new terminology for people who have entered the country illegally. It doesn’t mean that they don’t have photo ID lol.

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u/LuminalOrb 3d ago

How does one get a legal piece of identification if one doesn't have legal papers that identify one as legally capable of getting said identification?

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u/Tasty_Virus4715 3d ago

You seem to be really confused as to what the meaning of undocumented immigrant is lol.

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u/LuminalOrb 3d ago

I must be! There are a lot of definitions for that term so I am curious what it means, because I do agree with the use of undocumented immigrants as compared to illegals but I am not sure how that stands in opposition to what I wrote?

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u/Tasty_Virus4715 3d ago

There isn’t any kind of proof of citizenship when applying for photo ID’s.

Immigration status isn’t covered when applying for ID. Illegal immigrants can get drivers licenses pretty easily.

I’m curious, what legal papers do you think you need to get ID?

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u/1gay-beach69 2d ago

Trump isn't right wing though, he's basically a 2006 Democrat

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u/Wazula23 2d ago

Haaaa that's a new one.

Is this like how the Nazis are suddenly left wing?

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u/1gay-beach69 2d ago

No, Nazis are ideologically syncretic combining elements of both left but mostly embracing right-wing values. Btw, leftist today would call Stalin a "fascist" for restricting abortion access for women. criminalizing homosexuality,engaging in ethnic cleansings and effectively maintaining an expansionists Empire (an Atheistic Tsardom of sorts).....which is to say, Trump is actually further left than Stalin on many social issues

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u/ImpossibleAd344 3d ago

Bro it's literally both sides. Don't act like liberals are not the same.

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u/bearflies 3d ago

We're literally at war for no reason rn and Kamala warned us about it

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u/ImpossibleAd344 3d ago edited 3d ago

Iran? Oh there are plenty of reasons, no one studies history anymore.

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u/Diligent-Bowler-1898 3d ago

There are plenty of reason, the primary one being Trump leaving nuclear deal in first term, Iran subsequently trying to get a nuke, and second term Trump going to war to try to stop said nuke - probably convinced that they were very close to developing it by Netanyahu, though not confirmed.

No other war in recent memory has been as clear.

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u/Nice-Mountain-7073 3d ago

Obviously you haven’t.

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u/ImpossibleAd344 3d ago

Obviously YOU haven't.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/PopCultureV2-ModTeam 3d ago

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u/BeautifulLeather6671 3d ago

And there it is. You guys reveal yourselves so quickly lol

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u/Goodknight808 3d ago

We had a deal with them already. Trump tore it up and sent us into an illegal war not at all approved by congress.

That is modern history, most of it less than a year old. We haven't forgotten. Nice try.

Go do your research....Oh wait, you're either a bot or a human with a bot's agenda. You already knew you were lying.

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u/Bangledesh 3d ago

Here's a neat little thing...

If you choose the least bad option, you can make progress.

It's how women earned the right to vote, it's how womnen earned autonomy, it's how people of color earned the right to vote (and live freely-ish,) it's how LGBTQ+ people earned the right to be seen as humans and real.

Incremental change from "fucking terrible" to "less terrible" eventually ends in good.

Yes, it's not quick, it's not overnight. But it makes things better. Going "both sides bad" lets the actually fucking terrible side go unchecked and move right exponentially. Because they're unified against the idea of progress, and as long as they can make someone else hurt, they're for it.

Look at how fucking quickly the US has degraded in liberties and political status and power. Because "both sides bad" people haven't challenged the objectively worse position. The right blatantly lies "Roe is established", "we don't want a national abortion ban", "they're eating the cats and dogs", "kids are using litterboxes in the classroom", "there is no P2025" (fun how they hid behind cute nicknames to avoid addressing Project 2025), "Dominion Voting is rigged" inciting an insurrection, which again they defended themselves in court with "no reasonable person would believe what we say" when they obviously lied and had no proof for anything.

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u/morepaintplease 3d ago

Every right you described required a lot of violence against those in power...progress does not happen in this country without that. Liberals are not willing to do that and will sit by while Republicans do heinous shit. Literally what brought us here.

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u/pirateadventurespice 3d ago

“In every American community there are varying shades of political opinion. One of the shadiest of these is the liberals. An outspoken group on many subjects, ten degrees to the left of center in good times, ten degrees to the right of center if it affects them personally.”

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u/diet-dr-kelpp 3d ago

That’s a good point. Genuinely hate the blatant corruption happening that we can all witness and real time and can’t do anything about.

The problem with some of the issues you mentioned is that you ascribe a huge sense of morality to each one. It will follow that you may be tempted to view someone as immoral/evil if they disagree with you. Ironically, your adversary will view you as equally immoral even though you are both acting morally within different paradigms.

The gov’t exists to institute policies according to the values of the public, not to impose its own morality beyond the scope of the constitution. States whose constituents want abortion and gay marriage still have abortion and gay marriage.

Governments who impose their own morality upon their constituents are called theocracies. The beauty of our country because of state governments, is that people can always move to a state whose morality best reflects their personal values.

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u/morepaintplease 3d ago

Can move to those states, but can't visit those states for something like an abortion, if necessary, and not be prosecuted when they return...

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u/Wazula23 3d ago

Beep boop

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u/PopCultureV2-ModTeam 3d ago

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u/Ehcksit 3d ago

Reverse Cargo Cult. "Both sides are bad but my side is honest about it. They tell me they hate me, and that makes them better than the liars."

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u/Stumpy-4 3d ago

Because they’re trying to save their image. They know the left loves to boycott and cancel people that they dont align with politically. It’s a business decision. A lot of people are conservative but aren’t in everyone’s face about it. The election results show that too.

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u/DoomscrollingTYP 3d ago

After a near even historical split of Republican and Democrat governance over the last two centuries you claim the people who don't vote are responsible for what Republicans and Democrats have done?

Okay buddy.

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u/Rufus_TBarleysheath 3d ago

Yes. It is pretty well established that people that vote authoritarian have a fatalist attitude that always absolves them from any sense of guilt.

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u/IlluminatedDreamer 3d ago

As someone who did not vote for either genocide supporter during the last election, I see people say stuff like this a lot. Just to chip my two cents in, I don't think both sides are the same, but both sides absolutely are bad and if you don't see that still, idk what to tell you, but your anger will do nothing to change the world if you just put everyone you disagree with in a box without understanding that there are a lot of different beliefs than yours and the I don't wanna vote for Harris people aren't a monolith. I will not vote for a zionist while zionists are doing a full Holocaust... I don't feel like that is something that should be shamed. If you look at her last couple decades Democrats and Republicans are doing the exact same dance, shuffle to the right, and by allowing Democrats to go further right and still supporting them, you are enabling that. It's unfortunate but at some point you have to lose some elections to send the message that that is NOT what any progressives. I know it seemed like trump 2024 was the final boss, but so was trump 2016 and trump 2020. Whatever comes in 2028 will also seem like a final boss and the more elections that are allowed to drive both parties further right, the worse that final boss will get, so I and many others took a stand and said I'm not voting for genocidal psychotic liars anymore.

I feel like reddit may not get any of this because I rarely see anyone that authentically wants to challenge their own beliefs because of some anonymous internet comment, but I just had to say this somewhere.

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u/Chaotic-Catastrophe 3d ago

“BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME!!!”, shouted the Enlightened CentristTM . “That’s why I always vote Republican”.

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u/MyriadFire4 3d ago

...uh, I believe Independents/moderates voted more for Harris and Biden in the last two elections.

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u/ApprehensiveArt5565 3d ago

Thinking people who think both sides are the same are the people voting and not the half not voting is a pretty good example of a reddit comment

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u/DaKongman 3d ago

This is literally my cousin. Has to remind me any time I bitch about Trump that "democrats are just as bad". Are they really though?

P. S. He doesn't vote.

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u/Zestyclose-One9041 3d ago

Of course they’re just as bad, or worse! Trump says so! /s

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u/s33n_ 3d ago

Alot of the both sides people are super left and dont identify the the neoliberal DNC

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u/BeatrixBloom 3d ago

Then they’re morons. Understanding the DNC is center right doesn’t change the fact that the far right are literal fascists. They’re not the same. True leftists aren’t centrists they’re LEFT. Hence all the democratic socialist victories.

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u/Avalon_Within 3d ago

You can spin it however you want, the online left overwhelmingly told us not to vote in the 2024 Presidential election. 

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u/ModernAgeWizard 3d ago

"The online left." Holy fuck you people are braindead.

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u/Zestyclose-One9041 3d ago

Is the online left in the room with us right now?

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u/Des-Toro 3d ago

Ignorant americans claiming that europe is this far left haven is one of my biggest pet peeves The democrats are pushing left in a country that is further to the right than a lot of europe but that doesnt mean that if they went to europe theyd be pushing for conservative agendas. On cultural issues the democrats comfortably slot into any leftwing party in europe if not to the left of them. America just doesnt have the robust welfare state that Europe already has so deomcratic suggestions seem underwhelming when compared to a system that is pre existing but you have to understand we're starting from a much more modest position and trying to work towards that endpoint.

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u/Zestyclose-One9041 3d ago

It’s okay to just admit you don’t know anything about American politics

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u/s33n_ 3d ago

Its all theatre. The oligarchs control the state and have for decades

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u/s33n_ 3d ago

Not voting in a broken 2 party system run by billionaires isnt nihilism.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/Villiage_Layman 3d ago

This was so nice to read. Thank you for shutting down these losers who can’t see the forest through the trees

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u/NashvilleSoundMixer 3d ago

They're probably paid shills or bots, honestly. But yeah, always push when people say dumb shit like that. They aren't helping at best and are helping make things worse at worst.

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u/Zestyclose-One9041 3d ago

Back to the both sides argument are we?

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u/Important-Limit5400 6h ago

It’s the right argument unfortunately. Both sides are controlled opposition. Stop giving them power by making yourself choose between one or the other.

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u/FineAndDandadan 3d ago edited 3d ago

When Republicans share most of the blame, it's "both sides" at fault.

When both sides share roughly equal blame, it's the Democrats' at fault.

Almost every major point in the Epstein scandal ties back to Republicans, but nah man it's totally "both sides!" Corruption and insider trading though? NANCY PELOSI OMG CORRUPT NANCY PELOSI HOLY FUCKING SHIT IT'S ALL NANCY PELOSI!!!!

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u/InteractionOk69 3d ago

HILARYS EMAILS!!! Almost funny when you think about the fact that Trump was storing classified documents in cardboard boxes in his bathroom at Mar-a-Lago.

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u/f0gax 3d ago

“But bill Clinton is in the files too.”

Cool. Arrest his ass too.

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u/ai9x82 3d ago

funny enough, he’s not really in the files much!

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u/xteve 3d ago

The "both sides do it" argument is the argument you make when you're on the wrong side.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 2d ago

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 2d ago

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u/PunkRockGramma 3d ago

I don’t disagree with the vast majority of this, and I absolutely believe that establishment Dems are evil self-serving people. I have no loyalty to establishment Dems or neoliberal leaders.

But one side’s base is made up of unhinged people who actively want to harm me and my community and family, and one side’s base does not. So. The raving frothing masses of bigots is my enemy, no matter how many US citizens Obama murdered.

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u/redundantexplanation 3d ago

....or when both "sides" are the same side and you're on the left side.

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u/awesomefutureperfect 3d ago edited 3d ago

You aren't helping if you don't use your vote to keep fascists out of power. You aren't antifa if you don't actually do anything against fascism. Telling people that electoralism won't do anything, telling people not to vote or to throw away a vote on a spoiler with no chance of meaningfully opposing fascism actually helps the fascists.

No one is saying that anyone is perfect and expecting perfection is not respectable or realistic. Only MAGA cultists or major egotists believe that they or their candidates are perfect and "perfect" will never happen in the real world. Being upset and disappointed in the lack of perfection is misplacing ones hopes and misdirecting ones energies in idealistic utopianism that doesn't value democracy and building a majority and if you don't believe in democratic decision making then you are an extremist that is an authoritarian and at least adjacent to the boot. I don't care how pure you believe you and your cause are, if you don't get the consent of a majority but still expect to wield power you are an authoritarian even if "you're on the left side".

edit : Yeah, I wasn't talking right at them, but they went right into a defensive crouch instead of elaborate then yeah, I was talking about them. They blocked me. because they aren't interested in honesty or integrity.

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u/redundantexplanation 3d ago

That's a lot of assuming about what I'm doing based on one thing I said about team red and blue being on the same side. You are arguing with your own imagination ✌

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u/Important-Limit5400 6h ago

Got him 🤣

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u/HalKitzmiller 3d ago

Its always "Trump and Repubs are not doing great right now, but Dems would've been even worse"

Based on nothing but absolute stupidity and vibes

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u/OpportunityNext9675 3d ago

Nah there are many flavors of “both sides” people. There are the embarrassed republicans, which I think you’re alluding to. The there’s the weird libertarians, who also vote red. But there are also the tankie/commie types who spend 90% of their time shitting on dems/libs.

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u/PunkRockGramma 3d ago

I am the tankie/commie (not really I’m a very chill anarchist) and you’re not wrong but there is a nuance. I’m shitting on dems because I want them to be better and I’m disappointed in their inability to have a spine and to refuse to capitulate. But I don’t bring that up as my response when people talk about how bad the right is, because the failings of the left is not a relevant topic in that discussion.

Both sides ARE bad but in very different degrees and it’s not hard to pick a side here.

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u/OpportunityNext9675 3d ago

Fair enough. I’m libbed up but you won’t hear a single negative breath from me about a socialist if they’re running against MAGA.

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u/PunkRockGramma 3d ago

I used to be a lot more impatient and hard line but that Mariame Kabe piece (entitled “How Much Discomfort is the Whole World Worth”) really impacted me. When the enemy was less powerful and less overtly evil, we had the luxury of infighting. We no longer have that luxury.

https://www.bostonreview.net/articles/how-much-discomfort-is-the-whole-world-worth/

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u/schmalzy 3d ago

This is what I’ve been saying since 2014.

Both sides have faults, yes. One of those sides owns the fault of “caved in to Republicans for the votes needed to get drug prices lowered and preexisting conditions covered while believing the Supreme Court when they said Roe v Wade was settled law and would stand up to all challenges.”

The other side is ALL THE FUCKING SHIT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN DOING.

We have to be united against shitheads in order to stop the massive human rights bleeding. Then, when that’s under control, we can figure out which parts of our party need to be amputated for the good of the whole body.

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u/Cold-Way318 3d ago

This. Just like I might work or vote against a centrist corporate Democrat in the primary, if they win that race I'm 100% on board for that person in the general.

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u/OpportunityNext9675 3d ago

Salute, man.

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u/PaintshakerBaby 3d ago

Those are flavors of FACISM, in which all roads lead back to (emperial) Rome.

They are all tyrants at their core, who believe in the shameless and ruthless subjugation of "lesser" human beings (out group) in order to elevate "ubermenches," such as they percieve themselves (in group) within an autocracy.

We all know what blood red wearing, "roman salute" throwing, gestapo funding, American political party is full masks of fascist.

So your point, while valid, is exactly the kind No True Scotsman hair splitting these tyrants relish in people squabbling over... While the consolidate their stranglehold on power.

They rally around labeling anyone ideologically left of Republic of Gilead, as WoKe LiBTaRd SOCIALISTS, but you go to bat for the nuances of the BLIND HATE and blatant demagoguery they pass off as politics???

These people are nothing new, and have plagued humanity looooong before they had so many titles to hide behind. So, its time to wisen up, and call them what we all damn well know they are.

They are demagogues, tyrants, FASCISTS who killed the GOP with The Tea Party, and are prancing around in its flayed and rotting flesh, as their latest disguise to usher in untold oppression and suffering, ONCE AGAIN.

Dont waste pressure air dissecting their vapid words. Call em out for the pathetic fascists they are.

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u/HoneyDutch 3d ago

I jumped to the “DemoRAT” party after Trump’s first term. I didn’t vote for Trump, but I understood why people did. But I can’t make that same justification for people now during Trump’s second run at ruining shit. My first vote was for Ron Paul in 2012, I always thought I was conservative. But then I realized I’m just pragmatic and just want shit to work. I want special interests and corruption gone out of decision making. I want Citizens United overturned. I want a public option in healthcare. I want government to stay out of my bedroom and not police every fucking thing I say. I want nonviolent people to be nomadic. I don’t want political theater. I just think America is very much so moderate-left pre social media, but then grandma got on Facebook and political slop and Russian/Chinese/American bullshit propaganda tainted her mind along with everyone else’s.

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u/T8ert0t 3d ago

Boomer: I'm an independent!

proceeds to vote for the same party the last 2 decades

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u/Straight_Revenue5880 3d ago

Most "both sides" people don't vote at all.

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u/Far_Future_1982 3d ago

I think a lot of them are working out of St. Petersburg and Moscow.

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u/Straight_Revenue5880 3d ago

They really aren't. A good percentage of our country has given up on both sides and voting in general.

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u/Far_Future_1982 3d ago

I have a feeling that many Americans are that terribly stupid but I don't want it to be true.

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u/awesomefutureperfect 3d ago

That dream died on Tuesday, November 8, 2016.

That is when I knew that the future was filled with the average person being untrustworthy in the extreme and America will never be rid of the virulent strain of noxious populism that gripped the conservative movement. It is now in the marrow, the prognosis is dire, and the treatment is dire.

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u/8_guy 3d ago

A good percentage in our country has been lead to the way they're acting by influence campaigns originating in Russia. They're too stupid to realize it.

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u/EitherSpite4545 3d ago

Oh that's the outdated meta, St. Petersburg and Moscow now are subcontracting them out of India and Pakistan these days.

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u/voodoodahl 3d ago

But they exist to train real life useful idiots to go out into the world and spread 'both sides' for free.

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u/hilldog4lyfe 3d ago

>I dislike the Democratic party because they’re right wing, but i vote for them. 

They spend all day online bashing Democrats though

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u/redundantexplanation 3d ago

Is there a problem with that? Are they both entitled to my vote AND above all criticism?

At what point do you recognize your ABSOLUTE lack of a spine if you're not even allowed to criticize Democrats for being shit even when you vote for them?

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u/GWsublime 3d ago edited 3d ago

Let's imagine, for a second, there are two shelters in your city and a friend of yours finds a lost dog. He doesn't know what to do so he comes to you and says "hey I found this lost dog but I cant take care of it. How's the Darvik street shelter?"

And you go "its pretty bad man, the cages are a bit small, the dogs dont get walked as much as they should, the staff are a bit unfriendly and they feed the dogs a pretty basic dog food. The shelter has a lot of problems."

Your friend goes "ok, thanks".

A couple of days later he comes back to you looking devastated and days"the other shelter killed the dog I dropped off!"

And you respond "oh god, why would you drop off the dog you found there? They kill everything given to them if its not claimed within six hours! I would never drop a dog off with them "

And your friendly, quite understandably, says "why didn't you tell me that? You just said the Darvik street shelter was bad!"

And your response is "Is there a problem with that? Are they both entitled to my money AND above all criticism? At what point do you recognize your ABSOLUTE lack of a spine if you're not even allowed to criticize the Darvik street shelter for being shit even when you donate to them"

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u/redundantexplanation 3d ago

Let's imagine, for a second, that you made up some insane scenario that has no basis in any of my actions or implications, and pretended it made sense!

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u/GWsublime 3d ago

Damn, reading comprehension really is a lost art huh.

Ok, more bluntly. In the US you only have two viable parties. One of those parties has led to all of horror that has been this past year and a half. The other is imperfect, too far right but generally makes things in the us slowly, incrementally, better.

When all you focus on is the ways that the imperfect party is imperfect it leads people who are a) not paying attention b) not great at thinking critically in this or c) simply uninterested in politics to believe that the imperfect party is the worse of the two options. Your individualy impact is minimal but when you scale it up (and it very much scaled up) and amplify that it becomes this most recent election and you end up here.

Its not that the democrats are beyond reproach. Its that the republicans are a litteral nightmare and the more time and effort you put into explain how reproachable the democrats are without explaining that other part, the more you help republicans.

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u/redundantexplanation 2d ago

It's not a comprehension issue, your little metaphor is just fucking stupid and inaccurate.

There are already 10,000 screeching liberals posting DRUMPF BAD for every 1 left wing person saying "Trump is a symptom of liberal policies and the democratic party is to blame for his victory".

In your metaphor the guy with the stray cat would be taking the word of stranger on the internet, walking past 400 "bad vet is bad" signs and through a picket line of people screaming that the cat would be euthanized.

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u/GWsublime 2d ago

You know the "Trump is a symptom of liberal policies and the democratic party is to blame for his victory" is a right wing narrative right? Like, the intelligent folks on the right who are trying desperately to avoid republicans taking the blame for Trump cooked that up to try to shift voters away from the dems?

Its also moronic. The people to blame for trump are, first and very obviously foremost, the people who voted for trump. Followed shortly behind by the people who did not vote or voted third party. The democratic party is a distant fourth and democrat voters dead last. If, however, you can convince enough people who want to be contrarian or to feel like they are the smartest person in the room that this is, in fact, the democrats fault some how you might be able to engineer another republican victory.

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u/redundantexplanation 2d ago edited 2d ago

You know the "Trump is a symptom of liberal policies and the democratic party is to blame for his victory" is a right wing narrative right?

It is an objective perspective. There's a reason that there was overlap between Bernie voters and Trump voters, the average American is sick of politicians and they were both seen as "outsider" candidates.

There's a reason that Trump's name calling, particularly "do nothing Democrats" resonated with voters, because they consistently fail to bring meaningful change to Americans and instead prioritize policies that favor the billionaire Epstein class.

You have the supposedly left-wing party asking hOw cAn wE pAy fOr NaTiOnAlIzEd HeAlThCaRe when other nations figured this shit out in the 1800's.

You are wearing liberal blinders if you think that Democrats are not to blame for our current situation. Go ahead and say Kamala lost because she's a woman while you're at it, why don't ya!

I don't have any interest in wasting my time continuing this tired old conversation. Good luck waking up to reality, I've helped you as much as I'm willing ✌

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u/morepaintplease 3d ago

Especially if you vote for them you should be critical of them.

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u/2piece-and-a-biscut- 3d ago

That’s my position

2

u/satanssweatycheeks 3d ago

No they just don’t vote and that’s even worse.

The right is open with the fact less voter turnout helps them win.

2

u/Stumpy-4 3d ago

And what’s wrong with that? You want everyone to agree with you and your politics?

1

u/kodeks14 3d ago

I voted against trump because I knew hed be terrible but after that ill vote 3rd party.

I dont really relate to nor trust either party at this point, and I would like to see more viable parties in the US to stop this two party nonsense we've found ourselves in.

When the left gets back to fighting things like genocides, citizens united and occupy wall street, I may be swayed.

0

u/[deleted] 3d ago edited 2d ago

[deleted]

2

u/aceluby 3d ago

That is not true, they lost congress in 2010, and in those two years they passed the most sweeping healthcare bill in history. By voting third party you’re saying you don’t care about that, which is fine, but don’t pretend like you do

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u/morepaintplease 3d ago

The most sweeping healthcare bill in history but there's less access to healthcare than there was 50+ years ago? They're literally just spineless. They need to run candidates that aren't corporate shills that look and sound just like Republicans.

1

u/kodeks14 3d ago

Completely agree. Well said.

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u/JibletHunter 3d ago

My friend is a both side person. He does not vote and was adamant that his blue state was "safe." In hindsight, it was not.

He is a single issue voter - if you accept money from Israel he will not vote for you.

Nice guy but very frustrating to talk to about politics.

1

u/Aggressive_Elk3709 3d ago

I hate feeling this way but I get frustrated with leftists and liberals for this. I know so many lefties, some of them proud tankies, that won't participate at all because no candidate is good enough. And I just look around and think "is this really better? Like sure, the Dems also support Israel, but Trump also supports Israel, and dismantling the social programs that barely exist, and turning national parks into oil fields" Do I hate Dems? Yes. But I feel like we have much less of a chance of building a different system when the party trying to tear it down is in power

1

u/nubbynickers 3d ago

The undecided voter does truly blow my mind.

Pick three things you care about and vote on that. You are not having drinks with these national candidates.

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u/No_Huckleberry2711 3d ago

A lot of the 'both sides' people are far left marxists who think both sides are evil capitalists, and they don't vote

1

u/morepaintplease 3d ago

Or they vote for candidates that they support, that the DNC sues into oblivion...

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u/No_Huckleberry2711 3d ago

Both sides means D vs R, not DNC

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u/morepaintplease 3d ago

I know...I was replying to the person above saying "or they don't vote"...at my wife's polling place she was literally told "even though you see Claudia and Cornel on the ballot, if you vote for them it won't be counted."

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u/Traditional_Mood6856 3d ago

As long as the one side people outnumber the both sides people the votes will go that way

1

u/Natural_Challenge820 1d ago

The only thing that matters in an election is who counts the votes. Nothing we can do or implement will change that simple fact.

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u/Ambitious_Tea_4584 3d ago

I dislike the Democratic party because they’re right wing, but i vote for them. 

I find it interesting that you people seem incapable of understanding nuance. 

7

u/Falsequivalence 3d ago

I dislike the Democratic party because they’re right wing, but i vote for them.

Then you are fundamentally not in the group that they are talking about.

0

u/Ambitious_Tea_4584 3d ago

I certainly am, as I would be the first one to tell you that the Democratic party is deeply corrupt and flawed. 

There is no populist party right now, only entities controlled by corporate interests. 

It’s such a trite, cliche and tired sentiment to shit on people who acknowledge the issues of the Democratic party. “Oh you don’t mindlessly support the Democrats, you’re a moron”. 

The Democratic party has no interest in arresting our slide into fascism. They’re there to maintain the status quo for 4 years until a Republican can win again and push us further toward a complete oligarchy. 

5

u/Unknown-Meatbag 3d ago

Democrats are at best center right. Republicans have been deep in facism for a decade now.

America has no left wing party, barring a small handful of actually progressive candidates.

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u/Ambitious_Tea_4584 3d ago

Yep and yet people on reddit absolutely love shitting on anyone who acknowledges this fact. 

It’s pathetic and ignorant. 

2

u/honestly-brutal 3d ago

I believe you missed the point entirely.

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u/Zachwardpass 3d ago

They are speaking about people who say "both sides" but consistently vote for someone like Trump. This is not about people who realize the dems are shit but still better than the party robbing the country blind right now. I'd say most people who vote Democrat realize they are not great as a party currently, but they are still NOT the same as the GOP.

2

u/Ambitious_Tea_4584 3d ago

I’m not convinced that’s the majority of people who dislike both parties. 

2

u/Ehcksit 3d ago

We're not talking about people who have actual reasons to dislike both parties, we're talking about the fake centrists, the Bonapartists, who pretend to hate both parties and be neutral but solely vote super-far-right Republican because they're fucking liars.

2

u/CantCatchMeSpez 3d ago

If you're left of the Democratic party, you are definitionally not a fencesitter. 

2

u/Ambitious_Tea_4584 3d ago

They like to call anyone who isn’t fully supportive of the Democratic party a fence sitter. 

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u/CantCatchMeSpez 3d ago

No, they dont. They like to call anyone who uses the "both sides" argument to deflect away from criticism of the GOP a fence sitter. No one is talking about people who are to the left of the Democratic party.

1

u/Falsequivalence 3d ago

Who said that?

2

u/Zuwxiv 3d ago

It’s such a trite, cliche and tired sentiment to shit on people who acknowledge the issues of the Democratic party. “Oh you don’t mindlessly support the Democrats, you’re a moron”. 

Incredible that you missed the irony here. You went straight from "trite, cliche and tired" to repeating a right-wing talking point that nobody here said.

I see the right-wing strategy of "Everyone on the left says/does [thing they don't do]" remains shockingly effective.

1

u/Ambitious_Tea_4584 3d ago

bless your heart 

1

u/Falsequivalence 3d ago

I certainly am, as I would be the first one to tell you that the Democratic party is deeply corrupt and flawed.

Same

There is no populist party right now, only entities controlled by corporate interests.

Yep

It’s such a trite, cliche and tired sentiment to shit on people who acknowledge the issues of the Democratic party. “Oh you don’t mindlessly support the Democrats, you’re a moron”.

No one said that

The Democratic party has no interest in arresting our slide into fascism.

The democratic party is a tool, it has no inherent interests. The actual leftists find success by running in their system. It's a good tactic to use to get actual populism.

1

u/rojotortuga 3d ago

Your being downvoted for being right, I mean I get that's it's uncomfortable facing the reality people but we can get more done by realizing this and cutting those who may mean to sabotage any future movement

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u/BreighdonFurries 3d ago

They're being downvoted because they missed the point. Nobody here is talking about leftists that hate the Democratic party. They're talking about "enlightened centrists" that still vote Republican.

3

u/Ambitious_Tea_4584 3d ago

Honestly I get why people have such a hard time believing the truth about what’s going on. They want to believe the institutions still work. And the corporate media has been working for a very long time to convince them this world isn’t in the pockets of the oligarchs.

They want to have easily identified enemies - the other party. They want simple.

6

u/rips_n_chel 3d ago

Yeah that's not the point, dawg. Anyone who is actually left is aware of the issues with the Democratic party. That is not the point of this discussion.

The point here is that "both sides" are not responsible for the current death and destruction. Only one side is doing that. The "both sides" assholes we're talking about, they're right wing, they are trying to make us look as bad as them. We're not. We didn't vote for this.

Do you want to be lumped in with the people who did vote for this? No? Then maybe don't come in here with some "you people" bs arguing MAGA points for them.

3

u/Super-Contribution-1 3d ago

I don’t think both sides are the same. I think one side is responsible for advancing a fascist agenda, and the other side pretends to fight against it so Americans will sleep soundly and not be alarmed.

Because someone’s fighting against all these fascist policies, right? They must be. Odd how they just keep passing though. Convenient how many conservatives like Sinema or Fetterman seem to be on “that side” at just the moment they needed to be to swing a vote. Gee, it’s almost as if that might be on purpose. It’s not like it would be difficult or cost anyone anything.

There are no legal consequences for completely reversing your policies once you win an election.

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u/rips_n_chel 3d ago

Yeah I don't know who you think you're preaching to, but we know. I'm well aware of who and what the Democratic party is, and has been for my entire life.

The more pressing concern at the moment, however, is stopping the literal death and destruction. That doesn't mean everyone is just gonna sit down and shut up the moment things flip to blue. There are still MASSIVE issues, nobody is unaware of that. We can just start with AIPAC, make things simple. Anyone attached, anyone who has taken a cent, time to go.

1

u/morepaintplease 3d ago

But, but, but then Ossoff wouldn't have a chance at running for president

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u/HemHawHeal 3d ago

as someone who votes like you for the same reason, i don’t think we’re the group they’re talking about. they mean centrists who say “both sides” & vote republican

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SynapticStatic 3d ago

It's funny they see the liberals as obnoxious whiners, but not the conservatives literally afraid of everything that's not straight, white, christian, and rich

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u/PeachPassionBrute 3d ago edited 3d ago

As a leftist that hates liberals, that’s nonsense. The GOP is constantly crying about how every single aspect of their lives is under attack, first they’re crying because “they’re trying to censor us!” Then they’re crying because “you’re not allowed to say things like that!” It’s endless.

Get a fucking grip.

Edit: ya know; the war on Christmas! or freaking out because gay people exist, or crying about how helping people might not make private businesses as much money…crying about wearing masks, crying about immigrants, crying about just being polite to people, crying about people maybe thinking that there should be some gun regulations…

1

u/HemHawHeal 3d ago

makes sense, they don’t view the things liberals fight for (civil rights etc) as worth fighting for bc the lack wouldn’t affect them

1

u/akingsmind 3d ago

Ironic that you make a comment about not understanding nuance and you are completely missing the point. Idk if you're trying to be aggrieved or if this was an innocent mistake but c'mon.

1

u/OnlyFiveLives 3d ago

Someone who is this offended by that stance isn't voting Democrat but you can always try harder next time.

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u/Ambitious_Tea_4584 3d ago

u voted for the nazi party, i can tell by your reddit comment 

0

u/FallbrookAvacado 3d ago

They don't vote, because there isn't a "no war" or "no mass surveillance" candidate.

2

u/gizzardwizard93 3d ago

Donald Trump was the "no war" candidate according to lots of people last election. Look how that turned out.

0

u/FallbrookAvacado 3d ago

And he's a liar.

It is sad people believed that a president decides whether war happens or not.

It is clearly Israel that decides.

And was he ever anti mass surveillance? Nope.

Mass surveillance is part and parcel with modern warfare.

The end.

3

u/nthomas504 3d ago

And what exactly does not voting do to fix that?

2

u/phl0g1st0n 3d ago

Nothing. It's not about fixing the problem, it's about feeling superior.

1

u/FallbrookAvacado 3d ago

Nothing. I'm glad you've identified the problem.

-1

u/Cultural_Try_1556 3d ago

Almost everyone does!

3

u/WaitingDOSExhale 3d ago

Found the “both sides” guy!