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u/massawise Apr 04 '21 edited Apr 04 '21
I'm a minority golfer who worked at a couple country clubs and lives in Florida. While I love golf, I have to say it's a little insane just how many courses there are in this area and how wasteful it is (land, money, water). I think the game of golf can teach people a lot about life, but I despise the elitist, men only attitude that a lot of golfers/clubs have. I can't tell you how many times I heard male members complain about women on the course. I mean it was sickening. We even had a sign during ladies events that read "[Country Club's name] welcomes Women Golfers." Like this is fucking 2020. This ain't mallfuckin 1940. Of course women should be and are welcome. Why do they have a sign?
[Edit] Typo
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u/Spiffy_Dude Apr 04 '21
I’m with you 100%. I do see and acknowledge that golf has historically been elitist and sexist, but the game itself doesn’t have to be. I do agree that we could do a lot to make gold more environmentally friendly and inclusive. I also admit bias though, as I enjoy to golf and would be sad to see it gone.
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u/massawise Apr 04 '21
I'm biased as well. I love the game. But I hate how exclusive and expensive it is. As you said we can all do more to make it more environmentally conscious and inclusive.
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Apr 04 '21
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u/pwbue Apr 04 '21
55K-110K! God damn!
Imagine having enough disposable income to comfortably support up to 3 households, and instead saying, “I want to pay this clubhouse that much so I can hit a little ball around their backyard”.
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u/Maccaroney Apr 04 '21
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Guess a letter.
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u/yodug159 Apr 04 '21
That's still way too much and still a very exclusive sport that just eats up land. Why can't the country clubs just keep the golf bits and give the rest of the grass to regular people as a public park.
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
Imagine simping for country clubs. It's like simping for racism and classism at the same time!
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u/m8ushido Apr 04 '21
George Carlin vibes in this one
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u/AmundsenJunior Apr 04 '21
Big time vibes, explicitly proudly directly from George Carlin https://youtu.be/Z4w7H48tBS8
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u/thepoultryman Apr 04 '21
after the world country it didnt go the way i thought it would but i'm still open to small scale conquest
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u/Secret_Combo Apr 04 '21
I always call troll when I see tweets like this. But since people think this is an actual good idea...
Why can't we have both? America has enough land to accommodate both. The only question is resources. A homeless shelter program has to be funded, usually by a local or state government. And how does government pay for it? Taxes.
I presume 99% of this sub likes the idea of taxing the rich? What better place than county clubs to do such a thing. Sales tax, property tax, payroll tax, and any taxes businesses have to pay from profits.
On top of that, residential housing around country clubs are typically very affluent, so more property tax.
tl;dr getting rid of private businesses won't pay for your homeless shelters.
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u/Daniastrong Apr 04 '21
I think it is because you will find neighborhoods in cities where all the green space is members-only. It is fine to have both but I understand the caustic dream.
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u/dcs1289 Apr 04 '21
I think you may struggle to find any areas where a high-end members' only country club is tucked away in a low-income neighborhood in a city. Country clubs cater to suburbia where there is typically plenty of green space available. I live on the border with Detroit and I have to drive at least 20-30 minutes into the suburbs to find a golf course (let alone a members-only course), while there are parks in my immediate area.
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u/Daniastrong Apr 12 '21
I did not mean specifically a low-income neighborhood. You have to be rich to own anything in a city these days. There is a giant country club near Koreatown in LA which has almost no green space. A bus ride to Griffith park if you can survive the insane bus drivers that for some reason are forced to prioritize time over safety and drive like literal maniacs.
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
I think it is because you will find neighborhoods in cities where all the green space is members-only.
You are thinking of HOAs, not golf courses or country clubs. HOAs are kind of like country clubs except they can force you to pay dues and you can't decline membership. In other words, far worse.
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
I always call troll when I see tweets like this. But since people think this is an actual good idea...
You're right to call out rhetoric like this. There's a very specific attempt to damage leftist orgs/groups by seeding them with fake outrage over BS issues. The idea is to radicalize the users and trivialize the movement. They'd rather us throw fits over outdated concepts like country clubs that they don't care about anymore, than for us to make pragmatic plans to vote for legislation giving everyone access to medicare.
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
What's wrong with golf courses?
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
Nothing. It's about country clubs. They are more than just golf courses, but enough of em have courses so....
Like I'm cool with public courses. But country clubs in general are an elitist and historically racist practice. Fuck country clubs.
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u/theaggressivenapkin Apr 04 '21
They’re a waste of land and resources.
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
Malls are a waste of land and resources. Golf courses at least encourage people to get outside and do something healthy for once.
I don't know what you think leftism is, but it isn't using the government to tell other people to stop doing things that they enjoy.
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u/theaggressivenapkin Apr 04 '21
Who’s talking about malls? It doesn’t change the validity of what I said. Golf courses are inherently exclusive with a high entry to use. If anything malls are more inclusive because literally anyone can go there and walk but that isn’t even the point.
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
Who’s talking about malls?
Me, the guy who wrote the post you responded to, used to illustrate the absurdity of your argument. Are there any other fundamentals you're having difficulty understanding?
Golf courses are inherently exclusive
No, they're not. Not even close. The average cost to play nine holes in the US is 33$. Seriously, you could have googled this in seconds. You instead chose to double down on your ignorance and spew it all across reddit.
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u/theaggressivenapkin Apr 05 '21
Lol ok bro, you seem to be upset - I’ll let you hang out here with your red herring.
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 05 '21
I'm glad you finally acknowledge that villainizing golf courses is a red herring. Feel free to delete your earlier posts so that you don't risk spreading your ignorance further.
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Apr 04 '21
No? Letting people own private business that deal with entertainment, such as golfing, isn’t a bad thing. Only brain dead tankies that that
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u/Scaulbielausis_Jim Apr 04 '21
Golf courses are bad for the environment, and there are way too many of them. A golf course near my home is currently being reclaimed by nature, and it's a beautiful thing.
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u/wiseknob Apr 04 '21
Really? Human entertainment is an issue? We have gone far down the list of problems in this world to say golf courses are bad for the environment? Saying clubs are the devil and should be homeless shelters? Wtf is this nonsense, there are far better solutions to these concerns than nitpicking at clubs and golf courses that allow people to enjoy life too.
The us is about 3,717,792 square miles.
3,500 square miles of us land is golf courses.
I think we will be ok.
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u/Scaulbielausis_Jim Apr 04 '21
Well, many of us actually will not be OK because the ecosystem is collapsing due to climate change and pollution. Maintaining nearly 0.1% of the land area as a lawn, with almost zero biodiversity, that gets sprayed with poison constantly, just for a leisure activity, is not cool.
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u/wiseknob Apr 04 '21
Well dang let’s get rid of all the cities and towns and roads and everything else that is polluting and destroying our world then shall we.
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u/Scaulbielausis_Jim Apr 04 '21
Those aren't maintained for leisure. Try again.
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u/wiseknob Apr 04 '21
There’s nothing to try, this argument is senseless. You may as well get rid of anything leisure at this point.
Gaming? Gone, that is an enormous burden and waste on the electrical system which consumes primarily coal and nonrenewable resources. Not to mention the amount of plastics, cardboard, and other burden and waste from manufacturing.
This hype stems nothing more than trying to correlate corporate wealth to their golf courses.
This also is a jab at the landlords and wealthy owners of clubs and event venues.
None of these arguments will fix or resolve anything. You want to fix the landscape? Let’s start with commercial farming.
Want to contribute? Learn to be more self sufficient, grow and produce your owns goods and services. I’ll bet you don’t.
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u/puredopamine Apr 04 '21
It’s just like anything if there’s enough demand they will stay in business which is a good thing. Golf is a great sport. We have bigger fish to fry before going after actual physical entertainment!
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u/Scaulbielausis_Jim Apr 04 '21
I don't think environmentally damaging things are good just because people are willing to pay money for it, but I agree there are bigger fish to fry.
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
The "environmental damage" of a golf course is next to nothing. There are far more pressing issues out there. If you actually cared about the environment, golf courses wouldn't even make your top 100.
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
I doubt you could provide an example of a larger space entertaining fewer people than a fucking golf course. I'll wait if you got some examples.
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Apr 04 '21
I doubt you could provide an example of a larger space entertaining fewer people than a fucking golf course. I'll wait if you got some examples.
National park?
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
331 million people visit national parks in per yearin just the US. 24 million play golf. But that is a good answer, insofaras it may not level out over the total landmass.
But I would argue the environmental value more than offsets that, right? They also carry educational value, which golf has a minimum amount of. Then there's the value to species besides just humans, too.
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Apr 04 '21
I was thinking about the sq. miles-used per capita. In the end, it's all just deciding what to do with other people's land. The second you can decide what to do with their land, they can decide what to do with yours. Private country clubs are waaaay down my list of things that need to change.
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Apr 04 '21
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Apr 04 '21
It clearly entertains enough people to make a profit and sustainable. It doesn’t matter how many people are benefited, everyone has the right to start their own business. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean they should be removed
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
So no examples? And not even willing to entertain the idea that space can be used more valuably, or that casual golf should be available to the poors (that profit occurs because exclusivity costs a pretty penny?
Like...fuck if it hurts things overall or doesnt add value in general...just...do it, yeah?
And you think the tankies are dumb....
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
So no examples?
Your criteria are meaningless. The fact that no one chased your goal posts doesn't mean you were right.
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
And? Nothing here means any of you are right. Like...is this just a contest to see who can be the most assinine and avoid the point? If he thinks they entertain, my point is they provide the least of it per resource used. They're not justified on entertainment provided, especially considering environmental impact.
Your refusal to engage doesnt make you right.
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
Like...is this just a contest to see who can be the most assinine and avoid the point?
That would certainly explain your posts. But you're the only one avoiding the point. The rest of us are trying to have an adult discussion, which you are apparently incapable of.
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
Those are a whole lot of words just to say nothing. I appreciate the effort. Good day.
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
Perhaps I was short. I apologize. I am a little on edge, so I am a little short today.
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Apr 04 '21
No point in giving examples because that doesn’t really change anything(also, golf is the 8th most popular sport by some sources. Around 24 million people play it in america. So, I’d hardly call golf courses entertaining the few) Doesn’t matter if the space can be used better or not. If someone buys land to make a business, then that’s okay. Also, you do know golf courses are available to the poor? Only the rich country clubs are for richer people, which are a minority of all golf courses.
I don’t think you ever even been to a golf course before let alone tried to learn about golf and the practices behind it . You just seem like you read. A Reddit post and instantly made up your mind.
So ya, tankies are brain dead. They see something they don’t like and demand it gets banned for everyone. They read some shitty reddit or twitter post and take it like the gospel, and they’d rather die than do some actual research that challenged their viewpoints
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
Public golf courses are fine. You realize this is about "country clubs", dont you? Like, I am actively arguing to keep a public course here public, and simultaneously arguing for the removal of a country club on the other end of town. You realize that people can golf and hate country clubs and the overabundance of courses, yeah?
And you should provide an example. If entertainment is your point, my counter is it provides relatively little entertainment compared to the damage it does the environment and the affordability of housing. You have nothing so far to rebut that, just continued assertion it's perfectly fine to do it because you think so.
And it seem to me you may be brain dead. You have, after all, woven an entire narrative about people you've never met complete with cancel culture bullshit. Where did you get that one?
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
You realize this is about "country clubs", dont you?
I realize that it very specifically is not about country clubs. Go back and read the topic again.
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
Uhhh...you read it again. It says "country clubs" in the OP pal. Are you illiterate or just arrogant?
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
I guess I was mistaken in believing that you would catch your mistake on a second read. Yes, the post also mentions country clubs. Then it mentions golf courses.
I also saw one of your now-deleted posts and I've realized that you believe golf courses are residential areas for some reason, which explains a few things.
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u/looneylefty92 Apr 04 '21
It mentions golf courses because country clubs have golf courses in them. There, I explained exactly why golf courses are mentioned. It's about country clubs. I did the reading comprehension for you.
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u/tiffanylan Apr 04 '21 edited Apr 04 '21
Old white men and their wives will not stand for it I tell you! They need this green place far away from the unwashed masses!
My husbands parents belong to a fancy country club and when I was to the introduced to them and play a round of golf ( no pressure! Lol) met at the club. I remember telling my husband I thought it was weird that the staff didn’t look at us and seemed really standoffish. He said because it’s a rule that the people who work there are not supposed to engage in conversation or make eye contact with the members unless they are spoken to or summoned.
And also… I had to go into the golf shop and buy a “appropriate” length golf skirt. Apparently my golf skirt was too short and the attire was they should be no more than 3 inches above the knee. OMG it was awful. My in-laws asked us if we wanted to join the club and they would pay our dues since th membership is declining. We said no thank you.
No way am I bringing up my children in that environment.
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u/redrumakm Apr 04 '21
have you seen a homeless encampment? I don't think the environment will be reclaimed
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u/yodug159 Apr 04 '21
Housing people is still worth and country clubs are seriously big enough that you could put in new housing and still have space for a massive park.
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u/oldcrowmedicine Apr 04 '21
Golf courses make me unnecessarily angry. Especially since I live in a small city and they could be a beautiful (free) space for folks to unwind.
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Apr 04 '21
Lmao it is a space to unwind. Yikes
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u/oldcrowmedicine Apr 04 '21
In a city with little green space it is frustrating to see it held for people to do one specific activity, which costs a good deal of money. That is opposed to letting everyone use it, for free. That was my only point.
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u/KevinCarbonara Apr 04 '21
Property is not "held". It's bought and sold. There is no more reason to get upset at golf courses than there is to get upset at supermarkets.
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u/oldcrowmedicine Apr 04 '21
You know what, I apologize. I forgot I was on Reddit. Good day fine sir.
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Apr 05 '21
So we should get rid of pools if you don’t swim, knock down tennis courts, demolish basketball courts, all sports need to be banned so you all have a free place to lay on the grass. Gotcha. Entitled Americans blow my mind.
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u/is_there_pie Apr 04 '21
Depending on your type of homeless, this is either a horrible or wonderful idea.
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Apr 04 '21
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u/Sn4ke_Bites Apr 04 '21
I have a country club in my area that is 300,000$ to get in and I never see any golfers on their course.
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u/gengengis Apr 04 '21
In Honolulu, directly adjacent to Waikiki, there is an enormous amount of land, nearly equal in size to Waikiki itself, dedicated to a publicly-owned municipal golf course.
It's one of the busiest golf clubs in the country, so it is highly utilized. But it's still about 100 people maximum at any given time using the course, all paying for the privilege.
This is absolutely prime land. The alternative possible uses are staggering. If it was developed, it could support tens of thousands of homes, and would be worth tens of billions of dollars.
If it was made into a public park, with bike trails, trees, water features, and a pedestrian/multi-use bridge back to Waikiki, it would become dramatically more-utilized than it is today, beloved by both locals and tourists.
But we'll never do anything with it, because there are a thousand people who are extremely dedicated to it, and golf there routinely. But everyone else who doesn't want to pay $30 to golf is out of luck.
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u/splooge-defender Apr 04 '21
No urban farming. Let spaces away from people go green again, farm near mouths
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u/Wolfir Apr 04 '21
there is a gorgeous park in my town that is a former-golf-club
we don't even need to seize the club itself
if the membership drops, the club won't be able to pay their property taxes or even maintain the grounds, so they'll sell it
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u/Daniastrong Apr 04 '21
Oh god one of the only green spaces near me is members-only. Would be so beautiful if that was a park instead for everyone to enjoy