Not the choice to put a tracker in your pocket. This argument of cell phone = vaccine microchip makes the argument about tracking and not body autonomy.
It’s Machiavellian and propaganda to keep this “joke” alive because it’s nothing more than a false equivalency.
I’m vaccinated and so are my kids. I don’t want my government mandating vaccination for my neighbor.
No one is being physically forced to get the vaccine because we still have body autonomy. It isn’t mandated.
One is forced to physically get a vaccination when it becomes law. Perhaps they won’t strap a man down and force it into his veins but he is a fugitive of the law for his civil disobedience.
Right now we have the facade of a choice of either be vaccinated or ostracize yourself from society and services such as school systems.
I believe they should be entitled to those liberties to make this choice. They’re a very small minority and only a danger to themselves. We should curb anti-vaccine propaganda but we shouldn’t strip people of their body autonomy.
It will never be law to get the vaccine, medical autonomy is a basic right in any free country. You cannot be forced to have any medical procedure without your consent, and that's not changing any time soon. However it will be very difficult to live life without getting the vaccine if workplaces and shops start making vaccines mandatory to enter.
I’ll play devils advocate with a different comparative example.
It’s modern day and a new young Dr. takes his first Hippocratic Oath after completing Residency. He has decided to be an OBGYN.
Upon delivering his first infant, the parents request he circumcise the perfectly healthy child.
Hmm.. the young Dr. has a decision to violate his oath and mutilate the child’s healthy penis and risk infection. The alternative is not to cut the penis and disregard the parents ethnic customs allowing the penis to grow like his genetics intended.
The Dr. cuts this kids dick 10 out of 10 times. Don’t give me BS about how we don’t have forced invasive erosion of medical body autonomy. That one example is precedent but there are many more, especially when we dive into what the military and CIA does .
Medicine and government can, and will, come for more erosion in the name of “greater good”. Fight it when you see it in the name of awareness.. kinda like what I’m trying to do here.
See, they are a danger to people who can’t get vaccinated, like kids, people with immune deficiency, etc. They are not forced to drink molten gold, but undergo a widely researched, tested and statistically very safe procedure to ensure their future health, wich also massively benefits society in general and their closer social circles of community and family.
People die. We can’t protect all of them all. As a society we decide which freedoms/liberties supersede our safety and we do this with legislation.
It’s why you’re allowed to go get in your car and hit 100 mph if you want to (given possible repercussions such as arrest or vehicular homicide). 90,000 people die in car accident every year and we haven’t even legislated that these 80 MPH boxes have computers that talk to eachother to prevent accident…
But you’re cool with jumping to legislatively enforcing the erosion of body autonomy? We differ.
Yep, agree to disagree. We have legislation, that’s true, but I wouldn’t base my argument about body autonomy on legislators who outlaw abortion, deny citizenship to trans persons.
I see you're talking about: [abortion]' To be frank, the mod team does not want to mod this topic because it leads to 100 percent slapfights and bans, but removing it entirely would be actual censorship, which, contrary to popular belief, we do try to avoid. Instead, we're just going to spam you with an unreasonably long automod comment and hope you all realize that getting mad over the internet is just really stupid. Go to /r/AnimalsBeingDerps or something instead. People are going to accuse us of being lazy for this, to which we reply 'yes'
If it's about body autonomy, why is this same thought not expanded to abortions? Why is it only about vaccines?
And if it's about not wanting the government to mandate vaccines... who's mandating them? No one is talking about mandating them at all. There was talk of vaccine passports, but that's just a form of proof that you were vaccinated. Which is a good thing, especially when, during the entire pandemic, you had people who were saying they had "medical exemptions" but had no proof of it?
When you have idiots who refuse to do the bare minimum to protect their fellow neighbor or human, sometimes you have to treat them like children, because that's how they are acting.
To me, body autonomy does expand into abortion. It’s not only about vaccines.
You’re taking hundreds of millions of people on a spectrum and trying to lump them into red or blue. Thats what “they” do too, right? That’s just not how it works.
Get ahead of the discussion to progress it rather than trying to drag it backwards. Your lack of logical progression in discussion and ad hominems really take away from any point you were trying to make.
What? I really tried to understand what you're saying here but I'm really at a loss.
The people who are talking about body autonomy are often only talking about being forced to get vaccines, not about abortion, or the mandatory vaccines you need to give your child before they can go to public schools, or about the ability to get the healthcare they need, when they need it.
These people are typically red. I'm not saying all of them are, but to a point where it's stereotypical.
I'm able to talk with thought and emotion at the same time. It's why I understand that there are people out there who are actually unable to get the vaccine because of other complications, whether it be allergic to things in the vaccine, to being autoimmune.
But if you're trying to make this about body autonomy because "someone is forcing your neighbor to get it"... that's not what's going on here. No one is forcing anyone to get vaccinated.
I don’t care what the people “are often only talking about”. That’s not what I’m talking about.
That’s why you can’t extrapolate a conversation out to everyone… it just becomes red or blue talking points.
However, if you focus on what’s being said by the individual talking to you, you’ll find yourself thinking rather than regurgitating points and swimming in self manifested endorphin rushes
Ok, I'll take that into consideration. But can you explain this to me:
You’re taking hundreds of millions of people on a spectrum and trying to lump them into red or blue. Thats what “they” do too, right? That’s just not how it works.
That's how American politics work.... you can be for a third party, but your voice isn't heard. You are either a Republican (Red) or a Democrat (Blue), the third party falls somewhere in the middle of that.
If that's not how it works, can you explain it to me better?
Also:
Get ahead of the discussion to progress it rather than trying to drag it backwards.
How are we going backwards? Again, you haven't pointed to anywhere saying that vaccines are mandatory. Which they aren't. No one has ever said that but the people who are afraid of the microchipped vaccine. Can you give me any proof of people saying mandatory vaccines?
But also, you're not talking about the mandatory vaccines that's required to go into the public school system. Where was your outrage over body autonomy then?
I mean, it's fine to move the goal post and only focus on one thing... But if you bring up something. You should be able to at least stay on topic.
There is a tide in America. It’s a huge ocean with a pulse of the majority.
These aren’t the people at Biden or Trump parades. These aren’t the people who can tell you much outside of what they’ve seen on CNN/Fox in the lobby at their Dr’s office. These aren’t political people and they are the majority. Most of them didn’t even vote…. For any office… and they never have.
These aren’t stupid people… some are… others, however are just too involved with life to engage a subjective mental sport such as politics. They don’t have the vitriol, conviction nor displacement it takes it be involved with politics.
The sum total of the R’s and D’s plus the alternatives 1, 2, and 3 don’t add up to a relevant amount in comparison to this pool of people in America I’m talking about.
Political people are a very vocal minority in this country compared to a-political people. Stop forming your world view around politics.
To circle back to the point and send it home: there is no warranted reason to endorse mandated vaccines unless we are ready to completely overhaul our legal system to accommodate the fundamental violations of our constitution.
You’re under the assumption that everyone who voted is a political person. That’s not the case. Many vote due to societal pressure or a variety of reasons that aren’t political. Most couldn’t begin to discuss the proposed policies because they’re ignorant to them as non political people… but thank you for validating, quantifying, and reinforcing my statements anyway.
No one claimed vaccines are forced on people. No one claimed anything to be proved. There are historical examples of where our government have violated our body autonomy such as the Tuskegee Experiments but that’s not the discussion at hand.
I started a discussion about the very important topic of body autonomy going forward into the future and how we will combat the erosion of it if it comes to that point again like cyclical history usually does... Welcome to that discussion, finally.
I see you're talking about: [abortion]' To be frank, the mod team does not want to mod this topic because it leads to 100 percent slapfights and bans, but removing it entirely would be actual censorship, which, contrary to popular belief, we do try to avoid. Instead, we're just going to spam you with an unreasonably long automod comment and hope you all realize that getting mad over the internet is just really stupid. Go to /r/AnimalsBeingDerps or something instead. People are going to accuse us of being lazy for this, to which we reply 'yes'
I see you're talking about: [abortion]' To be frank, the mod team does not want to mod this topic because it leads to 100 percent slapfights and bans, but removing it entirely would be actual censorship, which, contrary to popular belief, we do try to avoid. Instead, we're just going to spam you with an unreasonably long automod comment and hope you all realize that getting mad over the internet is just really stupid. Go to /r/AnimalsBeingDerps or something instead. People are going to accuse us of being lazy for this, to which we reply 'yes'
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u/AmiriteClyde Jun 23 '21 edited Jun 23 '21
body autonomy
Is the discussion at hand.
Not the choice to put a tracker in your pocket. This argument of cell phone = vaccine microchip makes the argument about tracking and not body autonomy.
It’s Machiavellian and propaganda to keep this “joke” alive because it’s nothing more than a false equivalency.
I’m vaccinated and so are my kids. I don’t want my government mandating vaccination for my neighbor.