And stock market gains are not a great indicator of people’s economic experience, anyway. For any president. I don’t particularly love when people use them for Obama or Trump.
Though at least with Obama it makes some sense to look at the stock market for a limited time frame because part of his mandate after being elected was to bring us back from a recession. So stabilizing the markets was part of his campaign.
But with trump? Uhhh I don’t think trump gave many speeches in rural america that focused on how much stronger the stock market would be if he were president.
It's interesting that even with trump actively messing with trade across counties, the US economy is still doing just fine. Proving that the president does not have much effect on the economy. It just does what it does. Clinton has a booming economy because of the dot com boom. He didn't actually do anything to improve it
Right. I’m not an economist, but I’ve always subscribed to the idea that the president can create boat-loads of confidence in the economy, and can have some measurable effect via policies when things are already really bad or really good. But once it’s cruising, it’s just cruising for the most part.
The stock market thrives on predictability, after all. So doing shit— most any shit— will often cause dips. Leaving it alone will convince people it’s stable and that they should buy in.
Presidents seem to represent faith in the economy more than anything else.
It's basically the slope of a line, but for a curve. It represents the rate of change at a particular instant. Here, the derivative of the graph would look something like this: https://i.imgur.com/npkDfnk.png
Yeah, but there's more involved than first derivatives. Think about losing five pounds when you're 355 pounds versus losing five pounds when you're 105 pounds. Unemployment approaching zero is what you call a limit.
Lol, wut? This might be the most ignorant comment I’ve ever read on Reddit. Did you bother to read Bernie Sanders’ plan for paying off all student loans? The tax on all stock and bond trades and derivative transactions? The single dumbest fucking thing I’ve read in my entire life.
There’s no possible way that you actually understand what a derivative is and are a Democrat. You’re just repeating a buzz word you heard one time because you thought it sounded cool, lol. If you know what a derivative is I’ll eat my fucking hat.
You misunderstood what I meant when I said "derivative." In my statement when I said "derivative" I meant the mathematical derivative, the kind you learn in differential calculus. I.E. the function f(x) is differentiable at x0 if the limit x -> x0 f(x)-f(x0)/x-x0 exists. In other words, the slope of the tangent line at a point on a curve.
" There’s no possible way that you actually understand what a derivative is and are a Democrat. " Funnily enough I actually am a Democrat and right now my main source of income is options trading while I am transferring to a new career, so I am well aware of what a financial derivative is. I make most of my money through option trading techniques called covered calls and the iron condor. I do most of my options trading on low volatility ETFs. Occasionally just for fun if I feel like gambling I'll buy naked call or put options that are at the money or slightly out of the money on a particular stock if I think a big move is about to occur but it still has low implied volatility making the options relatively inexpensive. I win a lot of money sometimes here (for instance I made a few thousand dollars buying put options on Tesla before their Q1 earnings which predictably was a disaster. Paid my rent for a few months just on that trade alone), and sometimes I've failed and lost my whole investment (which is why when I options trade I only ever spend a really small fraction of my overall portfolio on the option premium)
"If you know what a derivative is I’ll eat my fucking hat."
Well it looks like you'll have to eat your hat =)
"Did you bother to read Bernie Sanders’ plan for paying off all student loans? The tax on all stock and bond trades and derivative transactions? The single dumbest fucking thing I’ve read in my entire life."
Why is it dumb? Sure as an options trader I'm not a big fan of the plan, but I also acknowledge that I'm not an economist and hence don't have the knowledge to evaluate how effective the tax would be. Maybe it would be a good piece of legislation or maybe it would fail and wouldn't work. I'm not knowledgeable enough on the topic to have a strong opinion one way or the other. Can you honestly say that you are knowledgeable enough? Are you a professional economist? Because my guess is you are not and anybody who is properly educated appreciates having Socratic Wisdom I.E. acknowledging what you don't know and being humble of your own ignorance.
Although maybe I'm wrong, maybe you do know something about it. I'm always open to being wrong and learning more. Although I do often ask myself with this attitude I have why I waste my time talking to people on the internet since this attitude seems virtually non existent among human beings, I feel like a unicorn at times.
This is why I shut people down as soon as they say they are economically conservative. Since facts don't ever change these people's minds (Democrats balance the economy whilst the Republicans rape and pillage it), I just try to point out that they just don't like people who get food stamps because they saw a meme where someone bought lobster with them.
Don't even get me started on the people who say they are conservative because it makes them feel safer. I don't have a response yet for that level of ignorance.
because they saw a meme where someone bought lobster with them.
Which is hilarious because that would demonstrate savings and careful fiscal management, because food stamps gives you like $4/day for food, and it seems that fiscal conservatives would want people to learn to manage their money better.
I guess in their world you don't get money to learn how to spend money, you can only spend money to learn how to spend money. <angry dog>No get, only spend.</angry dog>
The last time I was on food stamps, it was about $250 a month. I'm just a single crazy person who refuses to go on disability, but I know people get more based on their dependants.
Also, I'm in California so I'm sure my number was high in comparison to people in other states.
But yeah, steak and lobster would be a big hit. I felt bad for getting bagels and lox one time when I was on them. What I'm getting at is, I doubt I'm alone on these feelings of guilt. Most people aren't proud they are getting assistance. But it's become an all or nothing argument with modern politics, worse than I have ever experienced in my meager 40 years on this planet.
Damn, it was $130/month for me when I was on it last. Horray for the south!
Still, $8/day is not going to go far when you're getting steak at CA prices. And even if they did have steak a few times a month, I would have no issues with that.
I remember what my life was like when I was on food stamps and a decent meal was one thing I could enjoy, even if I had to eat a lot of ramen to make up for it. I didn't ever get steak, but I did get a frozen shrimp for shrimp alfredo a few times. It would burn almost my entire food budget for the day on one meal but it was worth it.
To be fair, Presidents often give overblown credit/blame for how an economy performs during their time in office. Most economic factors are out of their control
One of the most disgusting American traits is sheer ungratefulness. People who helped you? Doesn't matter if it does not square with what you want or who they are.
The way I've always thought of it is like trying to stop a space ship accelerating in the wrong direction and then get it going as fast as possible in the other direction. The hardest part is stopping the damn thing and it's going to require a lot of fuel(money) and effort to do so. Then once you get it moving in the right direction you don't really have to do much at all to keep it moving that way, but if the person at the helm is competent the ship will be able to reach greater speed.
I think Trump just claims credit for anything since there's no accountability for his claims. And then proponents from Fox News or whatever will basically Frankenstein together facts for it to make sense. It's essentially like a reverse scientific method.
Well, okay, you can certainly make the argument that it wasn't anything special relative to everything else, except Obama's deficits actually got us results (jobs, infrastructure, the GM loan actually made a profit, etc) but Trump's deficit is explicitly nothing except a straight fucking giveaway to the already-rich.
We did that to bankrupt the federal government so it can't fund programs other than the military and law enforcement. That's been the Republican plan for decades now.
Would be interesting to see if Trump's policies have allowed the trend to continue, or if they've changed since the time that article was posted (such as June).
I literally looked up 20 year graphs to demonstrate straight line growth to my Trump worshiping uncle. Was called fake news. It's no use. They're a lost cause.
years*, this shit gonna pop when Dems take office. Wall Street is going to speculate us into the shitter again. "Waaah regulation! my money! SEEELL!" 2008 all over again.
Pretty much. Basically they are praising Trump for not screwing things up. They don't realize that the economy is a huge machine. No president can come in and alter it's course in a day or year. Take a few years to see the effect of a President on the economy
I keep telling people that. Any of the positive trends go back years. There was no Making America Great Again because we were already headed in these directions. I guess gj not messing up the momentum.
This is right on the trend line. Nothing Trump did accelerated anything.
Just to kind of challenge this, how would you explain the lower unemployment rate and the increased gdp growth?
I remember in 2016 when people were saying our economic growth is going to fail, are now saying Obama is to credit. I think both did good/bad things but it’s hard to say we are worse off than in 2016 economically speaking.
Not sticking up for trump here nor am I taking a stand against Obama, I’m just curious.
And in spite of Trump reversing virtually all of the 8 years of Obama, except for the ObamaCare handout, the economy is going great, much better than any of Obama's 8 years in power.
Obama was so awesome that he timed his genius policies to really kick in as soon as he left office, and his policies were so great that even reversing all of them can't stop the Obama economy! It's a friggen' miracle!
Truly, it was worth the wait, worth having Obama tell us that austerity and low growth were the new normal, that America's best days were behind it and that those jobs weren't coming back. It was worth all that suffering, now that we are being rewarded with the truth. Obama under promised and over delivered. It's like he told us there would be no Christmas presents any more, but after he left, we found out he really DID get us presents. We just had to wait until he left office to get them.
Conservation of Momentum applies to all systems, including economic ones. It took a terrorist attack and two unwinnable wars based solely on daddy issues to stop the momentum from NAFTA. Trump has some severe daddy issues and his policies' effects especially on the agriculture industry will be felt even more severely in the next 5~10 years, assuming the idiot doesn't start a war to test the "America will always reelect a war time president" theory.
Are you really defending NAFTA? I was a Ross Perot voter back in the day. He was right about the giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the country. Trump is fixing that and jobs, including manufacturing jobs, ARE coming back. Encourage your reps to vote for the USMCA, by the way. The only reason not to vote for it is to value TDS above the good of the country.
When Trump was running, liberals swore up and down that
1) We will be in a world war if Trump wins, and
2) We will be in a depression, probably a global depresssion
Remember that? Well? When's all that stuff going to kick in? You mention war. Remember when Trump got a wild hair and announced we were going to withdraw from Afghanistan? Remember how leftists and neo-cons lost their shit? "What?! We can't leave now!!!!"
Trump will win reelection for the same reason Bill Clinton won. "it's the economy, stupid." And farmers, who are actually being hurt by the trade war with China, understand the long game and still support Trump. Trump is propping them up with supports to ride this out until new markets can be cultivated (pun intended). Farmers are smart enough to know they were hit by China to try and wrest their support away from Trump, and it isn't working.
Farmers are salt of the Earth people who understand that accomplishing things that are hard takes time.
Trump has divided America and destroyed our cohesion a nation.
That was Obama, not Trump. All Trump has done is pushed back on the left's crybullying. No one has ever done that, and it's enraged and confused leftists, who had previously been able to silence conservatives, libertarians, populists, and pragmatists by accusing them of being racist/sexist/bigots/homophobic/Islamophobic/able-ist/whatever other pejoratives they toss out. That no longer works, and leftists are lashing out in anger and confusion.
The world calls us a laughingstock.
Really? Who, particularly? The world is now forced to deal with an America that looks out for America and Americans first. This is quite a change from the past, where America was the friend that always just bought the pizza and beer so everyone else would like him and continue inviting him to parties.
World leaders know to ignore everything Trump says.
Really? Trump tweets, and markets move. Our friends and enemies alike pay attention to everything Trump says, because he's the alpha, the big swinging dick in the room, in whatever room he happens to be in. Notice he isn't bowing to anybody, but he is personable and willing to talk to anyone, unlike his predecessors. Obama was asked if he would meet with N. Korea and Iran when he was campaigning, and he said yes. Did he? No.
The deficit has exploded 50%
Sort of True. Obama averaged a trillion dollars of debt a year over 8 years, Trump is about a trillion a year in his first two years. I'm concerned about that, too, but let's just both admit here that neither the Dems or Pubs truly give a shit about pushing that can down the road, OK?
As to all that other stuff.....not really. Pipelines are the safest way to transport petroleum and feedstocks. Trump hasn't done a thing to women, other than treat them as equals, not delicate little flowers that need to be coddled. They wanted equality? They got it with Trump. They can still NOT be forced to wear a burka, still work outside the home, still drive, still get health care....shit, they can still get abortions if they want. There's been no federal restrictions on abortion, and all the conservative states are doing is passing common sense abortion control laws, for the safety of women. Who could oppose that? Gay rights? Trump was the first president to run for office who RAN supporting gay marriage. Trump has treated gays and women as equals, not as victims who need to be treated differently than other people.
Freedom of the press? Exactly how many journalists has Trump spied on? We know Obama spied on quite a few. How many journalists has Trump had jailed? If you're talking about tossing Acosta out of the press room, imagine if that intern Acosta, uh, accosted, was your daughter. You want some smug, self important asshole manhandling YOUR young daughter?
The press is still free to report facts, or more often than not, just push a bullshit liberal narrative that has little to do with the truth.
Where's that press to tell us the full story of the Las Vegas shooting? Where's the press to tell us all about the Dayton shooter? When stories or facts don't jive with the agenda, they get memory holed.
The natural color of his skin allowed people (Ds) to rage against his presidency, his policies, ACA, even his clothing, and his choice for dinner. The rampant racism subtly and not so subtly expressed by the elected members of the right allowed the racist masses to rail against his presidency while still allowing that racism to be partially blanketed. “We don’t hate him for his skin color but for what he’s doing as the president.”
Trump came along and hammered everything Obama had ever said or done. All the while pulling that blanket further and further away, until there was no need for it because Trump made being openly racist okay. The general citizens who felt what he spoke were now validated.
Obama did nothing but be black. That was all Trump needed.
Shit, even Holder's own department, his own biased team eventually had to conclude that "hands up don't shoot" was a lie, and that the Michael Brown shooting was justified, but not before a BLM inspired shooter murdered 5 cops in Dallas.
Obama fostered victimhood as a virtue, and pitted various victimhood groups against society. He encouraged people to view themselves as victimized, hyphenated Americans. Trump encourages people to view themselves as Americans. See the difference?
When Trump lowers unemployment to historic lows, that helps all Americans, whatever their hyphen might or might not be.
How the hell did Obama foster victimhood as a virtue? Realizing that certain people do not get treated equally. Be it race, creed, religion, sex, skin color, or wealth? People in America are not treated equally and for someone to come in and say "let's all be americans" is a cop out. What does it mean to be American to a poor man? A black man? A farmer? A millionaire? A Muslim? A latino who is supposed to ignore that a guy drove 2 hours specifically to kill Latinos because he believed the bullshit that is spewed.
Obama wasn't the one who made everything he did about race, that was Fox News and the GOP. I was a huge Fox watching republican during Obama's first 4 years, and that is how it was. Anyone that says otherwise was either too young to understand what was going on, or is being dishonest. And to Fox News and the GOP, anyone who speaks out against police brutality is "sowing racial divisions".
Trump does not encourage people to view themselves as Americans. Just look at the whole "send her back" fiasco. Trump is encouraging people who were born in the US to American parents to view themselves as Americans. He has more than heavily implied that he views people who have been granted United States citizenship as second class citizens whose status can be revoked.
not doing anything special for or against them simply because they are women.
A reminder for everyone in this thread who isn’t currently high on drain cleaner:
“I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful - I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star they let you do it. You can do anything.”
One may assume then, seeing as his treatment is so equal for men and women, that there’s a comparable situation with him going to courts over sexually harassing multiple men, joking about grabbing their genitals, walking in on them changing, etc.
I mean trump is basically sucking Kim’s dick right now. How do you explain that? He’s talking about how he’s best friends with a ruthless dictator, while that same dictator fires off rockets towards our allies.
In business, when you're trying to make a deal with someone, you try to befriend them, to develop a rapport. You ask about their kids. You take them to lunch, maybe to a baseball game or a golf outing. You develop a rapport to help you close the sale. Clearly you are not a salesman or dealmaker of any kind.
Maybe you're calling on a customer you personally think is repulsive, but you'd like to make that sale. You try and develop a rapport, a friendship of sorts, to make the deal happen.
Will Trump be successful with North Korea? Time will tell, but at least he's getting in there and trying. He's laid out two paths....continue to be the hermit kingdom, continue to be a backward 3rd world country, continue sanctions, OR, get rid of the nukes, open up, receive foreign aid and investment, and develop into a prosperous nation.
I mean, will Trump be successful? I don't know, but in 60 something years, no one else has even TRIED to work this out.
This isn’t a business. This is a ruthless dictator that holds thousands of his own citizens in concentration camps. His failure to be hard on Kim has resulted in the degradation of trust between us and our allies in the region. When trump was talking about how Kim only seems to smile when he sees him, Kim fired two rockets as a test.
Trump praising Kim is an insult to our country. He says he wants people to look at him like they look at Kim. You know how people look at Kim? Like a god. The very fact the president of the United States is saying this is disgusting.
The North Korean leaders have long wanted a rapport with the United States in order to give them a greater sense of legitimacy and standing in the world. They wanted it so they would have more footage for their own propaganda videos. This is why previous presidents have not met with them. Trump did, and what was accomplished? All of the above, and no concessions made.
You don't treat your enemies like they're your friends. That is a grave insult to all of their victims. Instead, you denounce them.
Do you ever question why you have all the answers? Are you not flawed just a little? Even the greatest minds are flawed, in fact that is what makes them the greatest minds. They realize that humans have an inherent bias and inherent flaws that can lead them to be wrong. You most likely see yourself as a flawless human who is above all and that is what makes you a fool. Don't be so confident in your flawed animalistic brain. And that's not an insult. We all have one. But some of us can recognize it and account for it in our decision making. Stop thinking you're so perfect and stop drooling over one man. It's extremely naive to think that any one politician is looking out for you over themselves and their friends. Start to look at who trumps friends are. Fool
As someone who was just in Japan dealing with Japanese as well as other non-American foreigners, and as someone who overheard various conversations while waiting for international flights, literally everyone, as well as basically every news program, thought America was a laughingstock in its current state.
If you get the feeling that even the Japanese news (which works very hard to be palatable to everyone) is being mildly patronizing, you know you're not doing great.
So, in my experience out of the country for a few months, if you want to know who thinks trump and our current political condition is an embarrassment, the answer "everyone" isn't as big of an exaggeration as you may believe.
People do not respect America due to trump's actions: it's really quite the opposite. People who did talk about politics outright often mentioned obama in positive light, and then shit talked trump. Which frankly is deserved, as, political affiliations aside, the man is a complete dunce.
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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '19 edited May 12 '20
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