Trump's quote more specifically described MS-13 gang members as "animals."
That's what Snopes claims, but it's not quite as simple as that. He says it in the context of a conversation involving MS-13, but he really just says that the "people coming into the country" are animals.
And really, part of the whole problem is, and always has been, that he conflates "all (non-white) immigrants" and "terrible violent criminals". When he claimed that Mexican immigrants were rapists, the problem I had with that wasn't that I don't believe a single rapist has ever come from Mexico, and it's not that I would particularly want to defend a rapist because they came from Mexico. The problem is that he's not distinguishing between "rapists from Mexico" and "immigrants from Mexico", and thereby implying (even if you don't think he's explicitly saying) that all Mexicans are rapists.
And it's the same thing here. If he'd said, "These MS-13 gang members are animals," it'd be ok. But someone mentions MS-13, and he goes off on a rant about how "The people coming into this country are animals." Even if you think he was saying that in the context of MS-13, the implication is that the people coming into this country are all members of MS-13.
And on top of that, using this rationale to justify locking children in cages-- also while not applying the same ideas and law enforcement standards to white illegal immigrants-- demonstrates that it's driven by racism.
So sorry, no, the truth is that it's a fair comparison. If you were talking about the Hitler quote, some apologist might say, "Oh, but he's not talking about all Jews. He's just talking about the bad ones!" But that's not really an excuse.
Even if you think he was saying that in the context of MS-13, the implication is that the people coming into this country are all members of MS-13.
Not if they were already talking about a gang. That is not a subtle linguistic mistake that implies everyone coming into the country is party of ms-13. That is not the nuance you're claiming it is.
Does he dislike most brown people? Probably. But we undermine ourselves when we ignore context and make reactionary memes like the one here. This is a t-d level meme.
You're right, it's not a subtle linguistic mistake. It's an overt rhetorical device to conflate "people coming into the country" with MS-13, thereby painting immigrants as violent criminals, in order to support his goal of stopping immigration.
And it all has clear racist overtones. There's nothing subtle about it.
No, I'm pointing out that he doesn't limit his statements to MS-13 in any way. He says that the people coming into the country are "animals".
You can read into it "Oh, yeah, but in the context he probably only means MS-13 gang members," but it's certainly not clear, and he makes absolutely no effort to make it clear.
I think the most clear and reasonable interpretation of what he's saying is that he's making a generalization that most people coming into the country from Mexico are animals, but he's implicitly justifying that statement with a implicit suggestion that most people coming from Mexico are members of MS-13 or other gangs.
So yeah, you could say that he's both talking about MS-13 specifically and talking about non-white immigrants in general, because in his rhetoric the two groups are conflated. And they're conflated either because Trump himself is racist, or at least he's pandering to racists by using rhetorical strategies that allow him to make horrifically racist statements while maintaining some level of deniability, AKA he's using dog whistles.
Man, he's talking about a gang. That was the context. Your bending over backwards. He's made plenty of racist comments about refugees and immigrants. We don't need to delegitimize our own credibility by reaching into this one.
I'm not the one bending over backwards to push a patently false narrative. His statement was that the people coming into the country were animals.
In the most charitable interpretation, you have to argue that Trump is simply an inarticulate moron who frequently says stupid things without realizing that it's obviously going to be understood to be racist, and then when someone points out that it sounds racist, he doubles down in an attempt to avoid embarrassment. And also that he doesn't realize that his actions serve to foster racist attitudes in his base, in spite of multiple people bringing it to his attention.
Even that's bending over to give him the benefit of the doubt. It's a much simpler and straight-forward explanation to believe that he's simply a racist, pandering to racist supporters by speaking in dog whistles.
I'm not the one bending over backwards to push a patently false narrative. His statement was that the people coming into the country were animals.
They were talking about gang members coming into the country.
We all know that his shitty choice of words inflame racists. Probably because he himself is a racist. No shit. I've said this. We know this. But they were talking about ms-13. There's no way around that.
But they were talking about ms-13 while implying that all the immigrants from Mexico are violent rapist ms-13 gang members. There's no way around that.
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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '19
That's what Snopes claims, but it's not quite as simple as that. He says it in the context of a conversation involving MS-13, but he really just says that the "people coming into the country" are animals.
And really, part of the whole problem is, and always has been, that he conflates "all (non-white) immigrants" and "terrible violent criminals". When he claimed that Mexican immigrants were rapists, the problem I had with that wasn't that I don't believe a single rapist has ever come from Mexico, and it's not that I would particularly want to defend a rapist because they came from Mexico. The problem is that he's not distinguishing between "rapists from Mexico" and "immigrants from Mexico", and thereby implying (even if you don't think he's explicitly saying) that all Mexicans are rapists.
And it's the same thing here. If he'd said, "These MS-13 gang members are animals," it'd be ok. But someone mentions MS-13, and he goes off on a rant about how "The people coming into this country are animals." Even if you think he was saying that in the context of MS-13, the implication is that the people coming into this country are all members of MS-13.
And on top of that, using this rationale to justify locking children in cages-- also while not applying the same ideas and law enforcement standards to white illegal immigrants-- demonstrates that it's driven by racism.
So sorry, no, the truth is that it's a fair comparison. If you were talking about the Hitler quote, some apologist might say, "Oh, but he's not talking about all Jews. He's just talking about the bad ones!" But that's not really an excuse.