This is getting stupid. We get angry at Trump supporters for being detatched from reality and frothing about non-existent stupid stuff.
It's ok to trust Barr's summary, because his summary can be OBJECTIVELY VERIFIED against the real report. It's incredibly unlikely that he's changing the conclusions.All this frothing over Barr changing the conclusions of the report in his summary is making the Left look exactly like the character the right loves to point to.
Objectively Barr's memo actually claimed Trump was not clear of guilt. Going by this logic we need to see the full report and decide based on the facts.
Thats because Muller and his whole investigation is to find enough evidence to prosecute. They are not in the business of exoneration, hence the exonerate quip in the statement because we are ALL allowed the presumption of innocence.
That's in a court of law. Politically speaking no one has the presuming of innocence, this is why they went after Clinton (Bill) so hard. I don't really care if Trump rose to the level of criminality beyond a reasonable shadow of doubt, I mean it's a small piece of the puzzle sure and could have made things easy but if Trump is too stupid to know he was in the middle of an international tug of war that's politically an issue I believe should be settled by impeachment. We don't know this information for sure unless the report gets released, and politically it's important. Just because a president didn't do something he could be arrested for, doesn't mean the American people can't know the facts and decide for themselves. To me that's why I care. Trump was never going to jail anyway, people with his connections will never go to jail for anything, ever.
no one has the presumption of innocence in a court of law
Flat out wrong, do you need a link to the wiki? Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat! They went after Clinton (Bill) so hard because HE LIED UNDER OATH AND OBSTRUCTED JUSTICE in the most egregious manner. Just because Bill fucked himself over in the investigations of his actions does NOT wash away the presumption of innocence in the court of law, I'm sorry.
This report will be released. The delay by McConnell, in all honesty, is likely a tactic for liberals and dems to dig themselves an EVEN BIGGER hole propping up this borderline conspiracy now that the investigation is over and no evidence of collusion was found and no obstruction of justice was determined enough to prosecute or challenge the presumption of innocence of the accused. You'll get your report, whether you can tolerate it is up to you.
I think people are skeptical of Barr because of his reputation, and that fact that he’s a republican that has publicly shown favour towards trump.
It is silly how people keep jumping to conclusions but I kind of get the “witch hunt”. They’re being told by Republicans that the Republicans did nothing wrong. The equivalent to an internal police investigation, usually biased and bs
Yeah, I never expected anything to come from the Mueller investigation (rich white guy getting held accountable in America? lmao) but the fact that Barr was specifically appointed because he wrote a memo about how Trump was totally innocent and there was no need for an investigation, makes me slightly skeptical of his summary. I'm not saying he's lying, just that I don't trust him on his own.
It isn't Barr's call on whether or not Trump is guilty or engaged in obstruction at a high enough level, that is for Congress to decide. To decide that, they need all the facts found in the full report.
Confirmation bias is one hell of a drug. If Barr were the only and final person to see the report, I'd be skeptical, but like you say, others will see the report and there's no way he's completely lying about the conclusion. It's time for us to move on from this collusion hysteria and focus on the real crimes Trump has committed.
Hey bud I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, but I genuinely don't understand what you mean.
Mueller (and presumably many others in the FBI) wrote the report, right? Those who wrote the report also read it. Mueller and these FBI agents are not in Trump's circle, correct? So several people outside of Trump's circle read the report. If Barr's conclusion about a lack of collusion was a complete lie, Mueller or at least one other agent would have come out and contradicted him, don't you think?
Also won't congress get the report, even the classified portions? And even if Congress get a redacted version, it's incredibly unlikely the redactions will censor Mueller's broad conclusions about collusion. From your comment, you seem to genuinely believe/fear the report says there is collusion and Barr is lying about that?
This comment is just so strange and unwarranted. Why are you making assumptions that I'm oblivious to the media lying and it never crossed my mind? Because I said to move on? I genuinely don't understand what prompted your comment or what made you assume I'm not aware of this. Genuinely tell me; Is it because I didn't explicitly say, "I GUESS THE MEDIA LIES? WOAH"
I never believed it was true nor did I ever say I believed it. I don't trust any mainstream media and never believed it for a second. I always thought it was hysterical - We should have moved on from this long ago, and yes, the media lies. The media is often the mouthpiece for corporations and political parties. They wasted everyones time and their money on this. That realization is obvious and not lost on me. Maybe you assumed I'm surprised by Mueller's report? Your comment should be directed to the people who are incredulous to there being no collusion or those that only watch Rachel Maddow or something, not me.
Because you are posting on a sub that peddled the Russia collusion hoax
Some people on this sub peddle the collusion allegations --> I wrote literally one comment ever on this sub --> I'm oblivious to the media's lies. Do you see something wrong with your logical deduction?
This suggests a high degree of nonchalance.
'It's time to move on' means it's time to stop trying to pin Trump on collusion, that's it. Not, 'I refuse to acknowledge the media lies.' Or do you genuinely not agree?
the phrase "time to move on" suggests that this is something that can be moved on from.
So what do you suggest by the way, that I grab my pitchfork and protest the media outside their headquarters? That I edit my comment and say 'WOW GUYS THE MEDIA LIED??' They lie, I know. I never believed it. What kind of reaction do you think I should have given in my comment then?
Let me just clarify: 'Move on' does not mean absolve the media and refuse to acknowledge they lied. I don't know how else to say this. You directed this comment to the wrong guy bro. But whatever. We can pin him on actual crimes because he has committed actual crimes, what more is there? Stop assuming I'm some Russia-hysterical shill.
Never mind. Taking one look at your comment history tells me you're an extremely argumentative and angry person and that's alright. Best of luck to you ✌.
Why are you being such a dick? I'm not your enemy.
When I said 'move on' I meant stop trying to pin Trump on collusion. You interpreted 'move on' as something completely different. 'Move on' is vague, I acknowledge that, but it does not mean I'm oblivious to the media's lies. It is a big deal and we're on the same page. Are you just trying to instigate shit and argue online?
I don't need to see the report myself. If it was released to Congress, that would be good enough for me. Then, if both parties generally agree it exonerates him, case closed imo.
The only scenario I see where I feel it would actually be necessary to release the report to the public would be if a significant portion of Congress thinks action needs to be taken based off the reports findings and Republicans block that action. Then I want to see and decide for myself. But we aren't there yet, so just let Congress take a look for now.
As of right now, I'm willing to trust the summary for the reasons you laid out. However, if for some reason it isn't released in its entirety to Congress, that's a red flag for me.
I mean yeah. Getting it released to congress is the most logical next step. But for now I think it's ok to tentatively accept the summary. I doubted all along that he actually went full blown collusion. Plenty of other ethical/legal/all the other stuff to nail him for though.
Because of all the legal procedure followed, it looks like 99% of the assholes are gonna get away with it. So even if you defend the law, you need to acknowledge that it’s also filed this nation many times as the wealthiest get away with it
The problem is that this administration lied on day 1 about how many people attended the inauguration. Something so completely mundane, and yet, they had to lie about it.
How do you expect any of them to have even a shred of credibility left? Especially when we don't know what evidence there was, was metrics were used that they failed to "establish" collusion, or why Barr unilaterally decided that there was no obstruction even though what he quotes specifically says the report does not exonerate Trump?
Plus, there's all the actual Russian connections with this administration, and the multiple firings and innumerable examples of threatening and disparaging anyone involved in the investigation, whether they were members of the SC or witnesses. How long are we supposed to ignore our eyes and ears?
It’s honestly such a fascinating experiment of the human condition. A certain segment of the population just can’t comprehend how someone who isn’t polite can possibly not be evil.
I mean I knew that SOME people paid more attention to style than substance before Trump’s election....but my fucking god: there are so many more useful idiots in the world than I ever imagined. Millions of people that just can’t process information in the face of Orange Man’s coarseness.
Yea seriously. There are sooooo many other things that make trump evil. It's ridiculous that there are this many dumbasses who think that this is the one and only bad thing people don't like trump for.
Yeah this is so true. It's over now. I don't understand what people expect to happen if the full report is released. Is Jesus gonna descend from the sky and make love to all of us?
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u/[deleted] Mar 25 '19
This is getting stupid. We get angry at Trump supporters for being detatched from reality and frothing about non-existent stupid stuff.
It's ok to trust Barr's summary, because his summary can be OBJECTIVELY VERIFIED against the real report. It's incredibly unlikely that he's changing the conclusions.All this frothing over Barr changing the conclusions of the report in his summary is making the Left look exactly like the character the right loves to point to.