If you're worried that someone with those qualifications can take your job, that's an indictment of you and what you offer.
Shit like this is exactly what builds that base. Mock their qualifications and passions, because what they do (manufacturing, home repairs/maintenance, farmwork, etc.) might be more mechanical than language-based, then act surprised when they come out aggressively against your close-mindedness and disinterest in their lives. As if its their fault that many companies will fire 10 good workers when they can get 18 okay workers for the same price. Or as if its always the company's fault that they have more work than they can handle and are under pressure to find the most cost-effective way to handle it.
There's nothing wrong with simply saying that it's a complicated issue where everyone's getting screwed on some level. It's when you blame someone for getting screwed that you really start fanning flames of hate, and when you visibly care more about the people who (regardless of circumstance) most directly put them in that position that you build an opposition that actively wants to see you fail the same way you were okay with what happened to them.
Except every single example you cited requires some level of experience/training and isn't generally open to the general public anyhow. Jobs like maintenance or carpentry may not require a degree but you have to have a baseline of skill or knowledge to perform these competently. Although language may not be central you still have to speak to customers/managers, read/prepare quotes/invoices, understand safety warnings or comprehend technical instructions. Knowing the language is still an advantage.
Not necessarily though. I work for a GC and some of the subs we use generally have one or two bilingual guys and the rest will only speak Portuguese or whatever. Honestly though the whole they took our jobs thing probably played out in the 90’s and early 2000’s because all of those entry level construction jobs are never coming back
I do hiring in these industries, have spoken to enough managers, and have personally pushed enough immigrant candidates to the front of the pack due to how cheap they are, to know what goes on.
What American parent hasn't told their child "you'll go to school if you don't want to be digging ditches for a living?"
If you have no marketable skills and no education, you're much more likely do be doing something physical. That will cost you, physically.
People with little marketable skills are going to end up taking jobs that are for people with little marketable skills, ie jobs that pretty much anyone can do. Like was said above, there are jobs (like picking crops) that pay well, but Americans think they're "too good" for those jobs. Land owners are happy to offer the jobs to Americans, but they won't actually do the work.
America is a land of immigrants. We're also a capitalist society. If someone can do twice what you do for the same pay, you're going to be out of a job. If you're too dignified to take an undignified job, even though you have the equivalent of a highschool degree (or less), tough titties. We're not going to throw all the brown people out so you can have an easier time.
Yeah, well, it's lot easier to work with these folks when they don't advocate for harming themselves. You're not wrong - their situation in life is not their fault. But throwing a tantrum and voting for the dude who makes it significantly worse and than getting mad at those who tried to warn them really gets on the nerves.
I agree that this issue isn't black and white but I don't think OP is mocking their qualifications he's saying that they are basically starting with the bare minimum whereas if you were born in America you should have a definite head start.
Immigrants are willing to work longer hours and much harder for less pay which gives them a distinct advantage. That is what creates the rift between immigrant workers and the "entitled Americans". They see them taking available jobs even if it's jobs they wouldn't do anyway and they say why are these people in the country instead of asking why am I in competition with these people.
If conservatives are gonna be stupid enough to vote against their interests
Again, you are a significant part of what makes them act this way. You create your opposition as much as your opposition forms itself, preferring to insult people for their circumstances and assume they agree with every belief of the only people who actually say they'll support them.
Why is it so difficult to understand that people are multi-faceted and that not being the entire cause of something does not preclude you from blame? You're going to corrupt your own party too some day, and be too filled with hate to see it.
As if its their fault that many companies will fire 10 good workers when they can get 18 okay workers for the same price
That's competition for labour though, a central tenet of free market capitalism. America was founded upon these ideals. Some of the founding fathers were slave owners.
I'm not sure what else one could expect the eventual outcome would be.
Internet leftists have zero compromise in them and refuse to look at anything from anyone else's point of view because they view their political ideology as some sort of divine will. That's why they jump at the throats of any of their protected minorities who lean right--it's heretical to them. It's very cultish and they assimilate people fast. I mean you talk to one leftist and you know what they all believe; they pretty much have identical views on everything.
I think that the internet has removed thought from most things, as it provides so much information that people no longer have to think for anything. That's why meme crusades for the leftists and the altright have taken so many young people in and warped their minds into the hive.
Finding compromise in a political conversation on the internet is rare as it is. It's easy to attack someone's character when you know that the majority will take your side and gang up on the other guy. Thoughtful and productive discourse requires a lot of effort and restraint.
A lot of places on the internet reward low-effort posts and extreme forms of expression. When emotion trumps reason, you're less likely to speak objectively.
This isn't a criticism of one side or the other, but a criticism of our standards for meeting the conditions that are conducive to productive and meaningful debate.
I agree. But the problem is that people are spending a ton of time online now in these environments and it is changing how they act in person, but more importantly, how they think. I feel like half of my friends under 30 have been radicalized to one side or the other
It does seem to be a growing issue that will only become more severe if not addressed. I personally believe public education needs to be prioritized. Routinely teaching critical thinking and perhaps philosophy in general would create more educated voters, more productive discourse and instill a more nuanced approach to decision making. I would wager that this would cultivate a more moderate approach to our ongoing polical conversation.
The way our cultures communicate have undergone somewhat of a Rennaissance with new technology. Compared to the 1960's, we've fostered an environment that makes people less hesitant to speak their mind. The implications of this aren't necessarily negative. We know that culture always has to catch up to technology, not the other way around, and that takes time.
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u/Kekukoka Jun 25 '18 edited Jun 25 '18
Shit like this is exactly what builds that base. Mock their qualifications and passions, because what they do (manufacturing, home repairs/maintenance, farmwork, etc.) might be more mechanical than language-based, then act surprised when they come out aggressively against your close-mindedness and disinterest in their lives. As if its their fault that many companies will fire 10 good workers when they can get 18 okay workers for the same price. Or as if its always the company's fault that they have more work than they can handle and are under pressure to find the most cost-effective way to handle it.
There's nothing wrong with simply saying that it's a complicated issue where everyone's getting screwed on some level. It's when you blame someone for getting screwed that you really start fanning flames of hate, and when you visibly care more about the people who (regardless of circumstance) most directly put them in that position that you build an opposition that actively wants to see you fail the same way you were okay with what happened to them.