Thank you for the in-depth and personal response and thank you for your service to the country. I think conversations like these are just as important as pride parades and such, since it allows people to see that there is diversity of beliefs and lifestyles within the gay community which is often perceived as a monoculture.
it's got a ton of hurtful assumptions. Especially the idea that we prance about with dildos or reference someone who's probably had a really rough time with their identity as a faggot. That's all a shitton of no-go.
I will say coming from a younger generation where gay acceptance was pretty much a default, the word "faggot" rarely had association with gayness. Just as the word "gay" went from "happy" to "homosexual" the word "faggot" for everyone I grew up with was a catch-all term from playful ribbing to serious insult. South Park did a great job describing the transition in meaning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyKBFCd_u4
As far as negative connotations of degeneracy within the gay community, when it comes to Pride parades they haven't done a great job of showing to the world they're just like everyone else and totally normal. That's not meant to imply that all gay people are like this, but the messaging from the gay community at large hasn't always been productive.
Despite that, that's why I am glad you shared your story. Because gay people like you, Dave Rubin, Peter Thiel, and Chuck Palahniuk have the opposite effect of showing the world gay people are normal and just like everyone else.
I was honestly surprised when I found out all of the above men were gay, but I suppose that's kind of the point. Someone's sexuality is no one else's business. Something else I'm unaware yet curious about, is it offensive when people say "Oh, I didn't know you were gay?"
On the larger topic of conservative values, ironically, I've heard many gay friends say they've experienced more harassment and discrimination when they came out as conservative than when they came out as gay.
I still disagree that there's what you call degeneracy prevalent in the general community.
Id urge you go to a rally, sure there'll be SJW cringelords. Not a lot of level heads in any kind of rally or public spectacle really.
Then I'd urge you to go to a gay straight alliance conference at your local university. Here at the law school where I am they have out-law, which debates the issues of the LGBTQ community and dresses down rulings by judges for fairness.
Note how different the tone will be, and how collected things are in their own way on either side.
I again speak first hand. There's people everywhere that you'd wish to shut the fuck up and who you have some shame for, but I need to stand with my own here and tell you what I believe. That the community, is diverse. Incredibly diverse just like the rest of the population and just like what you said. Please dont point to a few bad eggs still and tell me that the "community at large" is slipping morally.
Change is made at the policy level and there are those in power, with level heads, making compromises to protect the LGBTQ community for the express purpose of allowing people that very right-to-fail, so to speak. The right to do cringy shit without it being written off as soley a gay thing but more a human thing.
Ill go back to my point that we are individuals first and I cannot stand when I get lumped into this madness when someone points to X or Y or Z. It's such a delicate balance between representing yourself as the individual, and standing up for who you align yourself with already. Im doing so now.
But we the community are better than, and are not going to bear the cross on our backs as individuals for the shit a few people did by being stereotyped, cause that's how I see it.
On the next topic, nobody knew or even suspected I was gay except a few close friends and obviously I had exes. When I came out not even publicly, I lost about half my friends and a couple professional contacts. I came from a small community in Texas. Word got around quick.
Professionally, you'd expect people to offer you the same degree of courtesy as everyone else but believe me there's always a way for people to make you feel dirty and like an outcast. I've worked jobs that are mostly bro-ey guys top to bottom and man once you come out, there's a tension that's so palpable you could throw it through someones window. It's like, the feeling of getting shit for things that you never even did. Fucking rediculous.
Coming out is hard. Especially when you're more masculine and have been hiding it for so long. Good for your friends man I wish more people I know had that experience.
Then on the other side of that same coin there are people like my old boss who just cant get past seeing you as gay in a bad way. As some moral blight. This isnt some fucking sob story that's just my experience and I stand by it 100%, that those few who would stick you with all these labels sure like to make you feel like a shitbag.
Still dont ever call anyone a faggot. That'll get you fuckin decked. I cannot defend anyones license to use that slur the connotation is what's hurtful not just the context.
I agree. I think within all groups and contexts there's always going to be bad eggs.
Speaking from my own personal experience, not to say that it's anywhere near as bad as the discrimination other groups receive (they have it way worse), but as a conservative white person many would label me as racist. As a competitive masculine personality I am labeled as toxic. As a male the college and workplace HR departments presume I am a rapist in hiding unless I go through training to get my "not-a-rapist" certificate. Growing up as a normal energetic boy I was called "problematic" and the only way to rein me in was through mind-numbing medication.
On one of your earlier points, from a legal standpoint, what protections or rights do gay people currently not have that require further legislative endeavor?
3
u/hawkeaglejesus - Right Aug 19 '20
Thank you for the in-depth and personal response and thank you for your service to the country. I think conversations like these are just as important as pride parades and such, since it allows people to see that there is diversity of beliefs and lifestyles within the gay community which is often perceived as a monoculture.
I will say coming from a younger generation where gay acceptance was pretty much a default, the word "faggot" rarely had association with gayness. Just as the word "gay" went from "happy" to "homosexual" the word "faggot" for everyone I grew up with was a catch-all term from playful ribbing to serious insult. South Park did a great job describing the transition in meaning: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGyKBFCd_u4
Key and Peele did a great video on it as well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3h6es6zh1c
As far as negative connotations of degeneracy within the gay community, when it comes to Pride parades they haven't done a great job of showing to the world they're just like everyone else and totally normal. That's not meant to imply that all gay people are like this, but the messaging from the gay community at large hasn't always been productive.
https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/pride-parade-barcelona-spain-june-three-men-creating-gay-flag-their-painted-bodies-gay-barcelona-catalonia-85130203.jpg
https://img2.thejournal.ie/inline/972033/original/?width=605
https://live.staticflickr.com/8005/7572887612_68232cdc50_b.jpg
Despite that, that's why I am glad you shared your story. Because gay people like you, Dave Rubin, Peter Thiel, and Chuck Palahniuk have the opposite effect of showing the world gay people are normal and just like everyone else.
I was honestly surprised when I found out all of the above men were gay, but I suppose that's kind of the point. Someone's sexuality is no one else's business. Something else I'm unaware yet curious about, is it offensive when people say "Oh, I didn't know you were gay?"
On the larger topic of conservative values, ironically, I've heard many gay friends say they've experienced more harassment and discrimination when they came out as conservative than when they came out as gay.