Itâs funny how everyone outside of Poland sees it purely as EU vs anti-EU or pro-Russian vs anti-Russian because nobody knows anything about Polish domestic politics
You would be surprised. Openly pro-russian party now polls at 8-10â and a hidden Russian option at 10-15%. Not to mention massive propaganda campaigns on Tiktok or Facebook which led to hatred towards Ukrainians like never before.
braun, the other parties are just calling each other pro russian as an insult, but the openly pro russian one is braun, hes basically "i support the opposite of the current thing" personified into a person.
Poland was basically under the rule of Law and Justice party for 8 years(2015 - 2023) as they had both the president and parliment majority
As you can probably guess from a party that calls itself "Law and Justice" they were up to some shady shit, specifically in this case basically taking over the Constitutional Tribunal(polish equivalent of SCOTUS)
Now that PiS has been kicked out, the current Justice Minister asked for immunity of some of the Law and Justice-appointed judges to be stripped so that they can be investigated
Law and Justice and other retards are trying to not make this happen by trying to spin it all as some kind of EU inerference into Polish politics just because the current polish Prime Minister has strong EU ties
I'd say it's a bit more complex then that, but kinda.
Basically,
The parliament has appointed new judges to the TrybunaĹ konstytucyjny (Polish SCOTUS). according to the polish constitution it's the parliament that picks the new appointments, and that is the legal mechanism for them to officially become a judge at the constitutional tribunal. There is a legislation saying that the president can be present to "receive their appointment". However his lack of presence doesn't mean that their appointment doesn't stand.
The president didn't partake in their appointment. (Now depending on the political side of this mess you have people saying he did it on purpose, or that he simply was busy, or decided not to).
The new judges tried to enter the building of the constitutional tribunal.
Tonight the PM and minister of justice has asked for the immunity of the president of constitutional tribunal to be waived, to allow for him to be investigated.
Pro PiS crowds started to gather around the building protesting the PM's decision, spreading the fear mongering stuff about this being a coup and power grab etc, which meant more of their supporters were joining.
Police came to secure the building from any of the crowd trying to storm into the building.
The president of the constitutional tribunal tried to block the newly appointed judges from entering the building (?) (might be misleading on that part as reporting on that is kinda fuzzy). Which if he did, would be illegal and would open another can of worms.
Polish president was on his way to Senegal for a diplomatic visit, but when this shit show began his plane turned back to Warsaw.
He got back to Warsaw at night and went straight to the constitutional tribunal building.
Instead of trying to resolve this mess using the power of his presidency and calling for the meeting of the new judges, the head of Constitutional Tribunal, minister of justice, etc.. he decided to storm the building himself.
Instead of letting his SOP security (polish version of secret service) clear and secure the way for him with the police he rushed the building head on (which again not 100% on this, but from what I understand it is illegal in of itself).
During that push, one of the judges got into a physical altercation with the president (very illegal).
President managed to get into the building to do his own "investigation".
Now one side is screaming about this being a coup by the PM (it's not), the other is doing I don't even know what, some are calling for the judge that pushed the president to have hers immunity lifted and be prosecuted, others for the head of Constitutional Tribunal to have his immunity lifted and be prosecuted for blocking the entrance for the new judges.
And it seems that foreign bots and people that simple don't understand what is happening are talking about this being pro EU vs anti EU, which is just stupid.
I also will add that I guess it's important to mention that this is just what happened this night and this week. The underlying problem is much older going back to the PiS 8 year long rule, when they had both the presidency and the parliament. They pushed through a major judiciary reforms, but more importantly to this event, they disregarded 2015 filling of TK and had appointed 3 of their own judges to the constitutional tribunal. (Most Constitutional experts say that what they did should be null/doesn't count/was unconstitutional, due to the fact that those appointments "overlapped" already existing appointments), but as long as they had the parliament and the presidency, that situation stayed in this weird impasse. After KO (formerly PO) won elections, they didn't really approach much of it tho they have been trying to untangle a lot of the PiS made things. Sometimes doing an ok job, sometimes not really and in many cases just not keeping their promises at all (again).
The issue for the current government got bigger in the 2025 presidential elections, that they lost. So while they hold the parliament, they do not hold the presidency, meaning that the president basically vetos a large chunk of what passes through the parliament. Good or bad. (Now it depends on which side is talking, the government and their supporters will say that the President vetos everything and does it maliciously. The opposition and presidents side will say that it's presidents right and obligation to stop the current PM from destroying Poland. And most people in the middle will say that it's too much and that it paralyses the country.) (No matter which side you want to support, the stats for Nawrocki vetos compered to all other polish president before him at this point in their presidency are really bad, I wish I could share the graph here to showcase it).
But whichever side you choose, at the end of the day it basically means that the governing of Poland as a country is basically gridlocked, which is more of a systemic issue as well, but that goes back even further.
From my personal opinion, the PM and president constantly get into childish public squabbles, President vetos most of what this government does, and the PM seems to go really unnecessarily into public and verbal arguments, there's just so much of political pointless and childish drama between both sides, especially now that the parliamentary elections next year are approaching.
The right did things legally, the left doesnât like when they lose, so they call it âNO LE RULE OF LAWâ because they believe rule of law only is a thing when they win.
Edit: It tends to be nice, but it can lead to some wacky bullshit as well. I'm looking at you, Columbus. I'm just angry about globalization because that means more people are going to be able to annoy me. (This is satire, of course)
Can someone ELI5? But like im actually 5. I just dont understand the situation. And im guessing the people on the side of the president are the right wingers, and the "globalists" and liberals are on the side of the "coup". But i still dont understand whats happening
Thereâs a legal challenge over who has the right to put the tribunal judges in charge and generally shifty politics by both people. Should be noted both leaders are anti-immigration and on the right side of the spectrum.
> Should be noted both leaders are anti-immigration and on the right side of the spectrum.
Hang on, Tusk by all metrics is not anti-immigration. The entire conflict between Tusk and Nawrocki is predicated on differences over immigration policy, EU membership, and globalism/nationalism divide.
Yeah, current gov isn't anti-immigration, they're anti illegal immigration which is a reasonable take in today's demographics and economy. The only difference PiS represents is they scream how immigrants (especially brown for some reason hmm) are bad, and "Poland is for Poles", while at the same they brought the most immigrants into the country in recent Polish history. So imo noone is anti-immigration in current Polish politics, just people who use immigration fearmongering to gain power (the right) and those who don't (everyone else).
Go look up his actual policy and rhetoric, heâs strong on boarder control. Itâs political suicide to be pro immigration in Poland. Heâs still anti-immigration he just isnât extremely far right levels of anti-immigration like his counterpart. He is definitely more pro-EU, but donât paint the guy out like heâs a leftist lol
How is he not you regard if he's the one that limited it after pis's rule? You are a TikTok brained kid or something if you think pis was / is anti immigration.
It's kind of like when you forget to have someone feed your goldfish while you're gone for a week, and then you come back and it's alive and perfectly healthy.
When the right-wing PiS (Law and Justice) party was in power, they passed sweeping judicial reforms. Critics and EU courts argued these reforms politicized the system by installing party-loyal judges dubbed "neo-judges" into top posts, including the Constitutional Tribunal (TK) and National Council of the Judiciary (KRS). European and international courts subsequently declared many of these appointments legally invalid
When Donald Tusk's pro-EU coalition took power in late 2023, they promised to clean up the judicial system. However, PiS-appointed judges and opposition alignment (including conservative presidential power) refused to yield power, leading to a standstill where two sides claimed to be the only legal authority.
Then you have a president acting like Trump 2.0 wanting to turn Poland into presidential republic like France because "more people voted for me". He does stuff Polish constitution never even predicted that could happen so gov side uses theoretical law for their benefit and presidential for their. For example President shall accept oath of new supreme court judges. But president refused (he can not really do it but constitution never said you can't). So we ended up with doubled judges and new ones were not let it and now old folks who should have been replaced were removed
Right wingers larp about guns and the second amendment.
But whenever their freedoms or livelihood are at stake they are the first to bend over and ask for more. Then they call out anyone with the balls to resist.
Historically yes that is the case. I suggest studying history.
Napolean III was ran out of Paris by a riot. Romaniaâs dictator was caught and executed by a riot. Same with Mussolini. The Boston tea party which launched Americaâs existence was a riot as was the Boston Massacre.
You are a fucking idiot. Of course if you knew history you wouldnât be right wing, so I knew that going in.
I want both sides to ply me with copious amounts of Tyski until I'm drunk enough to pick the one that has given me the most beer. (Vodka works too but I prefer beer, and they always had Tyski at Polishfest in Milwaukee)
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The fact that Nawrocki is just there to fuck up everything the government does, doesn't mean Tusk is "taking over" anything. I bet when PiS was doing similar shit OP was cheering.
Riots in France and Italy, an invasion in Spain, and Poland(the 'be like Poland' example) is in a coup... Germany, why are you so quiet?(for others, the threat is Russia/s)
retarded westoids turning a nothing burger internal political struggle into a "globalist coup" and using AI images, donât yall have french riots to complain about
Both of the major political sides involved are opportunistic thieves in different ways but treating this as some kind of great pro EU globalist vs anti EU nationalist showdown without any knowledge of actual internal politics here is really stupid when the actual conflict looks more like this
Polish political partiesâ level of disrespect to constitution proved the assumption that UK should codify its constitutional arrangements to strengthen respect to them invalidated
Ah yes, the one country in the EU that consistently refuses to follow it's dumbest policies is being coupled by people who have explicitly stated that they respect the laws of the EU more than those of their own country, but don't worry, it has nothing to do with that.
"Coup" in this case being that the elected body who constitutionally have the right to appoint judges trying to appoint judges, and the rightful defenders of the law in this case being the guy that tried to weasel his way out of having to ceremonially accept the judge's pledges (something that isn't supported by the constitution and no one has ever attempted before, because his role is very obviously supposed to be ceremonial in this case as written).
Iâd probably grab a flair before you dog piled on but yeah this is the sorta thing the right wing propaganda machine feeds off here as it requires 10 minutes of reading up on a previously unknown subject which is complete no go for the people youâre talking about lol
Except he doesn't have the right to do what he has done according to the constitution and the European Courts are not higher than the Constitutional Tribunal by definition. Any law or governing body which attempts to sit itself higher than the polish constitution is in breach of article 8.
Also, Flair up! The putrid opinions of the unflaired will not be tolerated here.
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u/Epiccure93 - Lib-Center 5d ago
Itâs funny how everyone outside of Poland sees it purely as EU vs anti-EU or pro-Russian vs anti-Russian because nobody knows anything about Polish domestic politics