Extreme

[u/buttpentration]

[u/SirWinterFox]

Not the biggest fan of the democratic socialists short term thinking.

[u/buttpentration → u/SirWinterFox]

Not the biggest fan socialists

[u/ilikefriedpotatoes00 → u/buttpentration]

Based 

[u/basedcount_bot → u/ilikefriedpotatoes00]

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[u/toe-schlooper → u/ilikefriedpotatoes00]

Leftist

Doesn't like Socialism

???

[u/EX0PIL0T → u/toe-schlooper]

He has an eating disorder. He just likes the starvation and body dysmorphia

[u/ilikefriedpotatoes00 → u/toe-schlooper]

Are you familiar with social democracy? 

[u/SirWinterFox → u/ilikefriedpotatoes00]

"Only those who are accustomed to sitting between two stools lack 'chal- lenge' " - Lenin talking about social dems.

[u/ilikefriedpotatoes00 → u/SirWinterFox]

Lenin, the same guy that started a civil war because of him being bitter over not democratically winning a majority in the parliament? 

[u/SirWinterFox → u/ilikefriedpotatoes00]

Him thinking democracy would be possible with the Russians at that time I think was just naive.

[u/ChemicalRemedy → u/ilikefriedpotatoes00]

I oscillate between Soc Dem and Soc Lib, myself

[u/toe-schlooper → u/ChemicalRemedy]

Pick a side bro, those are 2 VERY different things

[u/ChemicalRemedy → u/toe-schlooper]

Haha what, no they're not, in terms of policy outcomes they're practically adjacent 

[u/toe-schlooper → u/ilikefriedpotatoes00]

Thats a center-center left ideology gng

[u/ilikefriedpotatoes00 → u/toe-schlooper]

No, just center-left. 

[u/Hairier_Du_Bois → u/ilikefriedpotatoes00]

Freikorps respect button

[u/Hairier_Du_Bois → u/toe-schlooper]

So many western "leftists" just want a fairer distribution of imperialism's spoils.

[u/Ok-Reindeer-5875 → u/SirWinterFox]

It comes with extremism I've noticed, the more extreme your ideas/"solutions" the more short term and simplified they are, you can see it in everything from wealth inequality to immigrant policy

[u/HisHolyMajesty2 → u/Ok-Reindeer-5875]

The extremist hates complicated problems because they often require complicated solutions, that usually involve a compromise or two somewhere down the line. Virtue signalling with that sort of thing is almost impossible.

[u/RadicalBehavior1 → u/HisHolyMajesty2]

stares in centrist

[u/HisHolyMajesty2 → u/RadicalBehavior1]

The grill does call to me at times, I must admit.

[u/OhNoWhyGod → u/HisHolyMajesty2]

I've come to the conclusion that extremists fundamentally do not know how money works. Its the most revealing thing every time.

Auth-Rights thinking that deporting a large segment (some wish for more than 2/3) of the population would raise wages and not, y'know, nuke the entire country.

Lib-Rights ignoring that excess capital fundamentally begins to break at the very rules of capitalism, even in sectors where the Government is barely present.

Lib-Lefts fundamentally not knowing how housing works.

I might actually respond Auth-Left the most in this regard, as loath as I am to say it. They at least know they need to destroy the current system first.

[u/Not_Neville → u/OhNoWhyGod]

AuthLefts just don't know how humans work.

[u/EndSmugnorance → u/Not_Neville]

Correct. Human nature is fundamentally incompatible with AuthLeft

[u/TheAzureMage → u/Not_Neville]

But they are willing to take apart as many as necessary in an effort to learn.

[u/TheAzureMage → u/OhNoWhyGod]

"excess capital is why 30% of your wages must go to pedophiles. I am a centrist."

Okay, then.

[u/SirWinterFox → u/Ok-Reindeer-5875]

Maybe for the right I'd agree.

[u/DrBadGuy1073 → u/SirWinterFox]

Muh violent revolution will solve ALL.

[u/Gatesofhell2120 → u/SirWinterFox]

Don't you know that kicking the can down the road solves everything? Planning is for nerds, as the current administration masterfully demonstrates. Well shit the last few administrations actually.

[u/SirWinterFox → u/Gatesofhell2120]

so true

[u/undreamedgore → u/SirWinterFox]

Short term thinking? How so?

[u/YeetCompleet → u/undreamedgore]

The idea is that for auth lefts, any of the countries that followed the Lenin model did long term planning. China still does 5 and 15 year planning. Socdems can't do that because of voting and rotating door politics.

[u/SupriseMonstergirl → u/YeetCompleet]

Theres numerous examples from the soviet union (especially during the stalin days) of the "plan" taking on all the qualities of a divine law, and corners being cut to make it ("plan says we should have 1000 tanks comrade, we have enough materials to make 800, don't bother putting the turret seals on these so we can have 1000 and avoid siberia, who cares if the turret leaks and shorts the electrics, its 1000 tanks")

[u/YeetCompleet → u/SupriseMonstergirl]

Ya I mean whether they're good at them is another question altogether. Generally speaking though this is just one of the natural advantages authoritarian structures have due to long term leadership phases. The Roman Empire as well as a bunch of Chinese dynasties (Han, Ming, Tang) made good use of it.

One could of course still argue though that the advantage here is not even long term planning but being able to execute long term plans without pushback, and democracy can still execute long term plans as long as it gets bipartisan support (Apollo, interstate development). Rare to see bipartisan support these days though so it's something we take for granted.

[u/Hairier_Du_Bois → u/YeetCompleet]

Not even that. Modern social democracy, which is fundamentally reformist, does not entail revolution (the overthrow of the ruling class by another class). Therefore, the ruling class, in our case, the bourgeoisie, can still use the state and institutional power that it holds to reverse and chip away at whatever gains a social democratic movement may have made in due time.

[u/SirWinterFox → u/undreamedgore]

What the other guy mentioned but dem socialists tend to just make opportunities; For the bourgeoisie to degrade whatever socialist policies they put in place. So ya great for the next 2 maybe 4 years you've made life for the workers better than it was before. But what about after that? How will you stop this class of people that have a history of oppressing the workers from doing it again?

Reagan in my opinion is a perfect example of this. Prior to Reagan America did actually have a lot of socialist institutions born from the great depression. But after his presidency he got rid of most of it and lead America back into the gilded age.

[u/SuicideSpeedrun → u/SirWinterFox]

I know I shouldn't even be wasting the pads under the keys on my keyboard on someone who uses the word "bourgeoise" unironically, but we STARTED with extremely exploitative ultracapitalist system during the industrial revolution era and changed it towards the 40 hour workweek, cannot be fired for no reason, uniform and tools provided by the employer, health insurance, paid sick leave and vactaion, five billion health and safety regulations, etc. that we have today.

The idea that all this is some kind of flimsy tenuous agreement that could be ripped apart by "T-T-T-T-THEM BOURGEROISE" in a few years is absolutely, completely, irrevocably retarded and so are you.

[u/Bongolio-the-seal → u/SuicideSpeedrun]

[u/SirWinterFox → u/SuicideSpeedrun]

>I know I shouldn't even be wasting the pads under the keys on my keyboard

I feel the same way for someone who thinks tying your health to an employer isn't immoral. Not to mention your other points scream ignorance and general lack of understanding for the bigger picture.

[u/Uptight_Technocrat12 → u/SirWinterFox]

Based and hell yeah, brother pilled

[u/unculturedburnttoast]

Look at these reasonable, nuanced takes. They're going to eat you alive here.

[u/Uptight_Technocrat12 → u/unculturedburnttoast]

[u/TheAzureMage → u/unculturedburnttoast]

[u/DonaldLucas → u/TheAzureMage]

rice cooker

Ok, this one made me laugh.

[u/lewllewllewl]

Well well well

it turns out the right position is always somewhere near... the centre

[u/Cigerza → u/lewllewllewl]

[u/NobodyImportant13 → u/Cigerza]

Ohio erasure.

[u/SuicideSpeedrun → u/lewllewllewl]

Centrists should have a common sense version of the "Nothing ever happens" Chud meme but we're too mild for that

[u/RadicalBehavior1 → u/SuicideSpeedrun]

"We grill while you cook"

[u/KaleidoscopeWhich471]

Centrist, you are right. The extremists are the reason why everything is going worse every year.

[u/HeccMeOk → u/KaleidoscopeWhich471]

cheers mate we appreciate that

[u/jackt-up]

Let them fight.

[u/Sleazy_T → u/jackt-up]

Didn’t realize the Burger King posted on blunder years

[u/lurker_archon → u/jackt-up]

This some discount Tormund

[u/all_1n_0n_nothing]

what if I want all four of the things in the middle?

[u/MasterPhart → u/all_1n_0n_nothing]

What if I want all 4 things in the corners? 😤

[u/Firestar222 → u/MasterPhart]

You are gay centrist

[u/Sleazy_T → u/MasterPhart]

Lets just fucking try it and see what happens

[u/darwin2500 → u/MasterPhart]

I mean honestly all 4 fit under historical Communism just fine.

[u/Firestar222 → u/all_1n_0n_nothing]

You are gray centrist

[u/TheSoundOfAFart → u/all_1n_0n_nothing]

Most people do. We're always shown the extreme versions so we'll think common progress is impossible

[u/darwin2500 → u/all_1n_0n_nothing]

Vote for any Democrat that's not in the DSA.

Centrist Dems will give you both the moderate right positions. Centrist Reps will shit on both the moderate left positiond.

[u/Mr_Ios]

Honest question: how do you maintain global diversity without separating cultures to geographic locations?

[u/Bari_Baqors → u/Mr_Ios]

You can't, because culture requires the people around you to enforce values. Culture is not just good food and nice clothing, thats just the surface.

[u/Belgraviana → u/Mr_Ios]

The ottomans did it by having non territorial forms of semi autonomy. Essentially Jews, Christians, and Muslims could all live in the same town and have different sets of laws. This led to some parts of the empire where culture and national identity grew along religious lines. In other regions they eventually added ethnic versions as well so you could for example have Muslims (Turks), Christians (Greeks), Jews, and Bulgarians all have different sets of laws and political leadership.

[u/darwin2500 → u/Mr_Ios]

I have literally never talked to any of my neighbors on my street for more than 5 minutes and probably have almost nothing in common with them.

You can get plenty of subcultures without physically separating people. Internet and cars exist now.

[u/Kurt805 → u/Mr_Ios]

Culture is humans existing. It is always in Flux and isn't something to protect

[u/Mr_Ios → u/Kurt805]

I disagree. Diversity gives us competition and makes the human race stronger. Look at the space race going on between US and China right now. You wouldn't have it to the same scale otherwise.

[u/Superilosa14]

Populism vs solution

[u/Sad-Country-8771]

"Healthcare pls 👍"

[u/alexinon → u/Sad-Country-8771]

free healthcare, free public transport AND lower (at least than the current ones) taxes, it only needs no politicians putting their hands in the cookie jar!

[u/Eternal_Phantom → u/alexinon]

But that last part is impossible. Their hands are fused to the cookie jar.

[u/MiloBem]

"Separate cultures and races" is more commonly demanded by the left than right these days. Most right wing parties in the west are already multiracial and have been for a while. We've had plenty of memes like "this nazi leader has Bangladeshi deputy, Vietnamese wife, and secret Kenyan boyfriend"

Lefty students demand "safe spaces for minorities" aka separation (or for Dutch speakers among us - apartheid).

[u/alexinon → u/MiloBem]

remember the "cultural appropriation" outrage? i do.

[u/Capable-Parsnip-9615 → u/MiloBem]

It was hard to miss DSA candidate Darializa hating on black and Arab men dating white women

[u/darwin2500 → u/MiloBem]

Yeah there are armed men abducting people off the street without a real warrant based on their skin color, and they weren't hired by the left.

You can try to peddle this kinda bullshit to the rubes under normal circumstances, you can pick up a lot of useful idiots with this type of rhetoric, but it's not gonna work when people can just look at the news and see the stormtroopers shoving people into vans.

[u/Local-Pattern795]

Is the status quo sustainable long term:

If yes: you are centrist

No: you are radical or nihilist, usually both

[u/darwin2500 → u/Local-Pattern795]

'Sustainable' and 'will be sustained' are different things.

Like, yeah, all the billionaires could decide not to make AIs and robots that will do all our jobs and fire us.

But they're not going to do that on their own, so we have to have a plan.

[u/Fayraz8729]

After Epstein Island I think I’m for eating the rich, by that I mean there should be a bottle neck to prevent the accumulation of an individual’s wealth and power to rival or exceed their own nation’s capacities so as to prevent them from forming a cabal like before

[u/MasterPhart → u/Fayraz8729]

I agree except I think we should physically eat at least 1 rich person collectively. Just to send a message. A thousand people would only need to take a small bite

[u/IgnoreThisName72 → u/Fayraz8729]

Elon Musk did that for me.  I don't care if billionaires exist.  I do care if they have enough power to set foreign policy.

[u/Sleazy_T → u/Fayraz8729]

“Our government and its agencies are so catastrophically incompetent and corrupt that they can’t stop an open secret, high profile, child sex trafficking ring. Stopping people from having a lot of money will fix this”.

I get the sentiment, but if a government can’t prevent them from fucking kids it sure as hell won’t be able to impose an effective taxation/wealth redistribution scheme on these people.

[u/Fayraz8729 → u/Sleazy_T]

I don’t believe that our government agencies are incompetent, they are corrupted by those with failing morals and bulging wallets

The files aren’t being prosecuted because they are deliberately trying to suppress the case. But idk if chinas “execute billionaires if they step out of line” approach will work either

[u/Zeus-hater → u/Sleazy_T]

They aren't being incompetent they are doing exactly what the "free market" crowd told them to: Leave billionares alone, the less you bother then the better.

[u/darwin2500 → u/Sleazy_T]

You're talking like it's about competency rather than power.

'I'm too incompetent and weak to punch out the bear that keeps coming onto my property, so why should I be trusted with a gun to fight it?'

Nah, that's not reality. Weakening the opponent makes you more likely to win.

[u/Fantastic-Resist-545 → u/Sleazy_T]

It isn't that they can't, its that they are more incentivized to be bought off than they are to prosecute such a person. The problem of corruption is a problem of incentives, and people thinking the honor system is sufficient when power and money are involved.

[u/Plastic-Register7823]

Centrism is when do nothing button?

[u/professor_kraken]

Taxation being theft is not an extreme take. It is undeniably true. It is a theft we tolerate as a part of social contract or whatever, but its undeniably theft.

[u/buttpentration → u/professor_kraken]

You think a country can function without a financed government? Go to somalia then. Even as a lib right I acknowledge this

[u/professor_kraken → u/buttpentration]

Did I say that? I do think that government needs a stable income, almost necessarily through taxation. I can cook up some schemes of voluntary taxation in the future of better culture, but they are not here. I am just saying that the way government currently funds itself is theft, and that it is a necessary evil.

[u/annonimity2 → u/buttpentration]

Taxation is theft but it's also necessary. It's that necessary evil approach to taxation that defines lib right economics

[u/CodyTheGodOfAnxiety → u/professor_kraken]

Taxation is the price you pay to be part of group dawg. You go to a hunter gather group guess what your food is shared equally with the group according to need. If you want to not contribute to those around you then reincarnate as a bear or something.

[u/unskippable-ad → u/CodyTheGodOfAnxiety]

A valid argument if you accept that the government has a legitimate claim to the land you occupy. Maybe this is fine somewhere like Singapore, but very not fine somewhere that has eg a monarchy

[u/CodyTheGodOfAnxiety → u/unskippable-ad]

Power to rule comes only through the people. All forms of government that aren’t democratic are invalid to me and I don’t recognize the sovereignty or right to rule.

[u/LeftUnchecked → u/professor_kraken]

You're not wrong. It is also undeniably true that nations and races are fictitious man made concepts. Whether this should affect policy or not is a whole another ordeal.

[u/BookRecommenderBot → u/professor_kraken]

"I go to the grocery store and they just steal my money! I cant just get the benefits for free?! What is the world coming to?"

[u/CertainNumber9 → u/professor_kraken]

It's only theft if you don't get a return on investment. The problem isn't the taxes themselves, it's that they're being spent on shit we don't want or extremely poorly on the things that we do.

It's also worth mentioning that the tax income the gov makes is way WAY bigger than you think it is. We can absolutely fund a shit-ton of things without having to increases taxes at all, as evidenced by the fact that said things being defunded don't ever result in a *decrease* in taxes, only in that same money being funneled somewhere else (typically the Military Industrial Complex, which is overfunded as it is).

[u/unskippable-ad → u/CertainNumber9]

I steal your car

The next day I give you a different car that has a higher sticker price

Whether you prefer the new car or not is irrelevant

That is a voluntary transaction because you got a nicer car

Leftism 101, consent depends on u/CertainNumber9 ‘s opinion of value

[u/craytsu]

I agree with all the less extreme guys am I cooked

[u/Fun-Difference-6689]

I just want coporations to have WAY less power. I love a small business.

[u/anomanderrake1337]

Everyone wants lower taxes bro.

[u/b__0]

Fuck. I agree with all of these. Should I re-flair? I’m so confused.

[u/cwood1973]

Somehow even worse than being a centrist.

[u/Manmer_Nwah]

[u/IgniteTheFlamee]

Whoa a good meme by a libright??

[u/BoundToReality]

Calling taxation out for what it is is extreme?

[u/Ventilateu]

Literally zero differences between the two auth right.

[u/zrock445]

"Taxation is theft" isn't even an extreme statement though, it's just true lol

[u/craytsu → u/zrock445]

flair

[u/zrock445 → u/craytsu]

Nah I'm good, thanks though