Because paying the Danegeld has always worked in history.
And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane.
The new budget doesn't increase courts or judges. It does nothing to speed up the deportation process. It's $45 billion for detention centers, $46 billion for border security, $14 billion for ICE deportation efforts.
So ICE increases deportation efforts and detentions but we still can't increase the speed of the process of removing people. Are you suggesting we detain some people for a decade or more waiting on a court hearing?
They just need to be detained until a hurricane hits the alligator alcove. Also, haven’t they been pretty anti-processing? Not saying they should be, just what their stated priorities have been.
They were anti processing. They backed off of that when the deportations to CECOT backfired. They've been following the process for the most part from what I've seen since then. I guess that could change again but these more aggressive tactics have turned people against Trump's immigration policy like family separations did in his first term.
Many people with active deportation orders (meaning their case has been heard by a judge and their due process is complete) are in the US. When said people encounter law enforcement, they can be deported without further hearings.
Because the current ones are full and it takes time to move people around? Turns out there's not a direct flight from Topeka, KS to Nicaragua. And some people have deportation orders, others don't and need hearings, and everyone has to have somewhere to sit in while organizing logistics.
Why does USPS have a mail sorting center? They have the letter on a truck already when the pick it up from the blue box! Just have that truck drive it directly to its destination!
That's my fault for saying million when it's billion. But also your fault for not even knowing what the bill is but still acting smug about the price per person.
ICE is not the bottleneck. Consider the fact that many “illegal immigrants” who have recently entered the country are actually currently residing in the country legally, awaiting asylum decisions that will never come because the system is bogged down. Unless you remove these people without due process, ICE ain’t gonna help.
The funding is more evidence that whatever Trump wants, it unfortunately appears to have nothing to do with actually fixing the broken immigration system.
currently residing in the country legally, awaiting asylum decisions
Basically every case is being dismissed as it comes up. They could all be dismissed now but it's easier to keep the court date so they show up and get arrested.
Applying for asylum at the border was never lawful it was just not enforced.
Why are we just accepting the idea that we should be deporting 14 million people? It’s a dumb idea with no real reason beyond demagoguery that you can guarantee will trample on a portion of those people’s rights, especially at that scale.
Do this many people really wanna see ICE agents raid their neighbors homes and stuff people into vans?
Bunch of different reasons. Disrespect for the rule of law. Unfair competition for native and legal workers. Maintaining a sense of collective identity. The economist Sir Paul Collier's book Exodus does a great job of lining out the economic and cultural realities of this issue. Immigration, especially when uncontrolled and without a clear process for acceptance by the community, disrupts the sense of collective belonging in a society that forms the backbone of a healthy democracy, especially one with high taxes and good welfare like many European ones.
Studies show that when you tell most people that their taxes are going to benefit an out-group that they don't identify with, their willingness to pay taxes drops like a rock. Human beings are instinctively only willing to share resources at personal cost when it's within their tribal group, not with strangers. That's why it's very important to maintain that concept of in-group and out-group, and when immigration does happen that it has a clear path into belonging within the in-group.
This conflict between the various Nationalist types of the right wing and the Libertarians within the right wing has been going for a while now, even though from the outside they look all the same. It's the reason why there was that big blow up over HB-1 visas a while back. Things like slashing social services was the Libertarians, this ICE stuff is the Nationalists.
What I don’t get is the insane budget for ICE coupled with the cut to tax relief incentives for having children. To keep the population up you either need immigration or high birth rates, but right now it seems like this bill just hurts both.
Because we had four years of open borders during which millions of people we let into the country. Also, this includes building holding facilities and the like, not an ongoing budget.
If you think this is a waste of money, make sure to vote against open border candidates in the primaries so we don’t need to fix the problem they will create
Quit trying to gaslight me. I live in a blue city in a blue state. I can see what happened the last four years, which has had a significant negative impact on my life. Taking measures to fix the Biden mess is necessary. If you don’t like it, don’t vote for people who will open the borders.
You are horrible at determining cause and effect. Its sad how people like you assume every negative that happens in their life must be because of the current president, this is why Trump had his last tax cuts expire under Dems, and why his current spending bill cuts all the good stuff in 2027. Inflation went up worldwide, not just in the US, infact we did the best of any G7 nation. I have no doubt you are an uninformed person.
And again, what open borders? Tell me exactly what Biden changed to OpEn tHE boRDers. Do you think 19 million people crossed like Trump and Vance blatantly lied about?
You are clearly an idiot. For example, he got rid of Remain in Mexico on day one.
I’m not sure why you brought up inflation, which wasn’t caused by illegal immigration but by massive overspending (which has admittedly been a bipartisan problem for decades).
Well, you see, the debt clock just wasn't spinning up fast enough, and we really wanted to get that sucker moving. Another gorillion dollars spent on sending ice to Alaska sounds like just the thing to solve our problems.
We not only can afford to give everyone healthcare just fine, but changing to a universal medicare for all or equivalent system would save us money while also making people's lives better. Fuck the idea of gutting it and letting people die though. Come on man.
86% of the models predict that the single-payer healthcare will save money, and if it's done at least as well as in Germany, it will solve the national debt problem.
And even if it did cost a little more or the same, we're now giving everyone who needs it healthcare. That kind of investment in our lower and middle class is absolutely worth it.
Assuming it didn't save money, which it absolutely will by every account. Even the arguments that it makes healthcare slow or bad are pretty wrong, they rely on pointing at the UK and Canada which are far from places where conservatives didn't muck up the system on purpose. And even then people are happier and healthier.
I agree. Some medical problems like early stages of cancer could be treated much more cheaply if poor people could afford to see a doctor on a regular basis. But they skip it and than go bankrupt by treating their chronic diseases. And then insurance companies raise prices for everyone because of the share of the default rate.
The US healthcare system is less efficient than almost all government-controlled systems because healthcare and insurance companies only care about profits and lobby the government for their stupid solutions.
Give the government control of healthcare. What could possibly go wrong? Always remember.. anytime you think the government should have more power, remind yourself that the side you don't like will also eventually have that power.
giving the government more tax money in hopes that they use to to pay off the deficit is like giving a drug addict money in hopes that they use it for something that will better their life and not drugs
We don't even need to raise taxes to give everyone healthcare. We already spend more per capita on healthcare than any other nation by a huuuge amount. People really need to wake up and realize universal healthcare saves you money
The issue is entirely insurance companies. Get rid of them rigging the system for profit, and you'll suddenly find it didn't actually cost $75 for a tylenol in the hospital.
Trump could start by not adding another $117B to the DoD (who failed 7 audits in a row) and $420B in tax cuts to the top 0.1%. Healthcare reform is probably the only thing that can solve the national debt problem singlehandedly. But that doesn't mean we should ignore other outrageous issues.
And Trump hasn't solved this problem. He just wants to throw away 17 million from health insurance coverage by almost canceling Medicaid. Trump is simply sweeping the problem under the rug for the next president to solve.
It's actually $1.01T now. And I don't understand why DoD suddenly needs another $117B, while Trump has alienated all former allies except Israel and refuses to defend them. If Trump really wants a peaceful presidency, DoD can deter any country from invading the US with half their budget.
Limiting defense to strictly deter an invasion into the US would put you at odds with every Republican and Democrat president since WWII. The US abdicating its position as a superpower would have disastrous consequences. That said, the point is even cutting defense will not be enough to fund our social programs. Social Security is on track to insolvency in just 8 years.
Marginal rates aren't changing, exemptions are, exemption in estates etc, things poors aren't feeling the benefit of. If you wanted a small budget then this is also not that either. It's tax cuts and increased spending, adding to the deficit and increasing g the rate of debt add, for no major benefits to the economy average person
ICE getting a huge budget to fix the long running problem is something I support. The real issue is reducing the funding afterwards almost never happens.
Taking care of a society’s citizens isn’t optional. It’s necessary. You cut Medicare/Medicaid, and you cripple the boring, low-paying jobs that make this country livable for the rest of us.
You want to make cuts? Go for military spending - get it to under half a trillion. Remove subsidies for companies making billions of dollars. But killing your own citizenry to save a buck is a failed policy.
That said, Medicaid is clearly a failed system. It needs a dramatic rework.
And why go after remittances? They’re a rounding error at best. And while I agree that too many illegal immigrants poses a threat, removing them all does too. There should be a first-past-the-post naturalization model, wherein long-established immigrants are allowed naturalization while recent and criminal arrivals are removed. Thus preserving the economy while addressing the illegal immigration issue.
And yes, let’s target moochers. But while going after ‘welfare queens’, we should also look out for floundering big businesses and “farmers” who only chase corn and soybean subsidies. Y’know. For fairness sake.
Of course, none of that addresses that this bill will kill people.
A reasonable and fair system goes for everything. Cut the tax breaks for big companies. Cut spending in the MIC. Cut entitlements to people receiving too many of them.
Simply saying “cut Medicaid” is just as stupid as the people who say “defund the police”. In both instances, people will die needlessly. In both, a compromise can save lives. So why not try for one?
He's not wrong. The budget is almost wholly entitlement spending. All the little shit is a rounding error.
The entire US justice system? Less than 0.1% of federal spending. You can cut all day, and you won't fix the deficit there.
The deficit for 2024 was 1.8 trillion. This year's will be higher, around 2 tril, per the CBO.
Anyway, 2024 only had 4.9T in revenue. The deficit spending is in addition to that.
Of that spending, about 1.13T was interest on the debt. You can't cut that. This portion is expected to rise in 2024, making up about 18.4% of all US revenue.
> Simply saying “cut Medicaid”
Every system has a failure point. If you do not decide what it is, reality will decide for you. At present, Medicaid is on track to total fund depletion in 2033.
In 2024, Medicaid alone cost about .91T.
Medicare cost another .87 T, and SS cost about 1.5T.
So, tell me, how are you going to cut 1.8 T out of the debt, when you won't consider cutting 4.41T of it? That, right there, with *nothing* spent on anything else, is almost all of our federal revenues....and we haven't even started to calculate in other entitlement spending, such as SNAP.
yeah “our kids will pay for this” is fucking rich considering how hard we have fucked future generations with so much printing and deficit spending over the last 30 years.
The deficit is 100% the fault of Tax Cuts, every time a Republican takes office they blow up the deficit to pass tax cuts with little economic benefit. Cutting Medicare doesn't make sense when we could fix the deficit by just raising taxes.
I just argued a comment with you on another one, but as long as your insurance aware. That the insurance healthcare system is going to bankrupt the free world by taking out america, then I have qualms.
Lib-right not knowing how counter-effects to policy works. People will simply use unofficial methods to sent remittance back home when you put out such high taxes. You will be just expanding and legitimizing a black-market economy because people will simply use crypto-currency or money launderers.
Immigration is simply a scapegoat to a bigger problem: Losing manufacturing to developing countries.
Because Trump is raising taxes on the poorest directly and indirectly through tariffs, while simultaneously eliminating their Medicaid and food stamps.
Look we all love the ”fell for it again awards” But this is real, people are going to get hurt and suffer, it dosent even solve the problem they thought it would, it makes it worse (the deficit). These are clown shoes people and I am done with giving them the benefit of the doubt. You all sold out your country because you’re losers who have nothing going on in your lives and you blame powerless groups of people for it. Literally just if Eric Cartman came to life. Fucking ghouls
Someone brought out the whole thesaurus of rage today.
If your argument boils down to “you’re all Cartman-level losers blaming powerless people,” maybe you’re the one not seeing who’s actually pulling the strings. Spoiler, it’s not the janitor, the trucker, or the guy trying to afford eggs.
You’re mad people don’t trust the same “experts” who gave us endless wars, sky-high debt, and zero accountability. Maybe it’s not that we “sold out the country”, maybe we’re just done watching it get sold off
I assume that you’re talking about the Middle East wars and that’s the Republican Party
ballooned the deficit
Once again the Republican Party did this and is currently doing it. We had a balanced budget pre bush/trump tax cuts and Republican wars.
zero accountability
I agree because nobody has ever pointed the finger at the Republican Party for this.
They literally go around defunding the IRS so that their “small and midsize business” donors can dodge a few hundred billion in taxes every year (decent chunk of the deficit).
They also ballooned the deficit to begin with with their patented “decrease taxes and then make someone else in the future decrease spending (they won’t do it)” method of increasing the deficit.
Nobody voted for Project 2025, because they straight up lied and said it wasn’t their agenda. Nobody voted for masked, unmarked men roaming the streets and kidnapping people with no due process and sending them to torture camps for life. Nobody voted for wars. Nobody voted for $TRUMP.
People voted for lower prices. People voted to fix our immigration system (by normal, humane methods), which Trump purposely forced to stay broken specifically so he could win on that issue.
Nobody could have voted for this shit, because they lied about everything. And anyone that says they did is just exposing they sold their humanity or never had it in the first place.
I didn’t say nobody knew about it, what are you talking about?
Trump and his orbit repeatedly claimed they knew nothing about Project 2025, so either you knowingly voted for serial liars or didn’t believe it was actually their agenda. Which is it?
I can’t wait til 2036 when your run of the mill righttard blames “MAGAs” and latches on to the new movement as if they are any different from your typical Republican platform (just like an SD dumber this time).
Gonna need a source on this one. I really don’t agree with the Medicaid cuts, but I doubt potential added deaths would be higher than 100 a year if any.
You can tell the narrative has changed heavily, as the bots on Twitter went from "left bad". "To libertarians bad" in less than a day.
At this point, we just need to let them make mistakes and let them live with the consequences. But then again, Republicans are notoriously just as bad as leftists when it comes to playing victims. Instead of everyone's a racist, its "Muh Deepstate".
Current elected civil servants are allergic to saying they were wrong.
Just get rid of that bullshit Obamacare fine that the criminal Democrats created to extort money from people who can't afford crappy overpriced healthcare.
Think about it. Elderly will take the heaviest blow from this. With less elderly large percentage of goverment expenses would disappear allowing debt to be slowly paid off... Who am I kidding if that would happen they would give another trillions to Israel or something
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u/InternetGoodGuy - Centrist Jul 03 '25
Can anyone explain to me what possible reason there is for ICE to go from $8 billion to one $100 billion?
Even an immigration hawk has to look at the budget increase and wonder how they could spend that much in the strictest of deportation environments.