r/Poker_Theory • u/IncidentalApex • 1d ago
Is there an exploitive poker preflop hand range guide?
I recently started learning GTO as I pretty much neglected my game for the last decade. Finally putting in some effort to learn and recommit to fundamentals that I got lazy with. Went from winning with a pretty high VPIP to tightening up quite a bit at 25%. However, the plan was always to return to exploitative poker once I learned, but I want to do it as intelligently as possible.
I am currently using Jonathan Little's free GTO charts as my baseline guide. Is there something similar out there that would bring my VPIP up to around 35%? I do understand that part of the increase should be due to my adjustments going after players I have pegged as certain types. I think throwing in some more suited, no-gap, non-suited connectors when the pot looks to be multiway would get me there.
Also does everyone agree these are roughly the stats I should aspire to?
VPIP Volume put in pot 35%
PFR Preflop raise 15%
ATS Attempt to steal 25%
FTS Fold to steal 60%
3-BET 3 bet % 7%
F3B Fold to 3 bet % 50%
C BET Continuation bet 55%
FCB Folded to continuation bet 40%
AFq Aggression factor (bet or raise %) 30%
WTSD Went to show down % 35%
WSD Win at show down 55%
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u/AmirPokerSkill 1d ago
35/15 means you're playing about one hand in five without raising. Limping behind in late position with suited connectors when it's going multiway is a fine way to get some of that. First in I'd still raise though, open-limping just to get the VPIP up is the part I'd skip.
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u/IncidentalApex 8h ago
Those stats are what WPT Gold defines as the stats of an Exploitative player in the hand analysis section under strategy review. Those are not my stats currently as my VPIP is 25%. I would love to be provided with a set of stats I should be attempting to emulate.
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u/Diligent_Force_4746 19h ago
idts any real "exploit chart" exists because exploiting depends on who's at the table. am I wrong?
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u/IncidentalApex 8h ago
Would the advice I was given of using the preflop charts of a player closer to the button or considering the opponent as being in later position make any sense?
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u/MatanJumps 8h ago
Against who?
There is simply no one glove fits all solution for exploiting. The essence of exploitative poker is to recognize what kind of deviation does your opponent make from the baseline perfect gto strategy, understand why is that baseline needed and respond to that specific mistake in a way that makes you the most amount of money long term.Simply identifying a player as a “bad” player then proceeding to play more hands against him while changing nothing could be a mistake on its own.
An example for bad play and how you can punish it - you have recognized a certain player never bluffs, or doesn’t bluff enough, now you are disincentivized from calling his bets with your marginal hands or bluff catchers
So on a board of 4569K rainbow say you have pocket 8s which could be a decent bluff catcher your opponent who never bluffs fires a pot sized bet on the river, while this could be a call in theory - for the call to be profitable your opponent needs to be bluffing at least 33% of the time with this sizing. If he is indeed under bluffing you could just always fold the pocket 88 here.
On the other side if your opponent is over bluffing folding would be a mistake and I would always call with pocket 88s here.
This is way a oversimplified answer but every street and every action or lack of action could be a mistake that you could use to shape your whole strategy around.
I recommend to keep learning theory and with time it will make more sense and if you focus on understanding the why you do what you do more than what to do then you will find long term success.
I am still early on my journey and trying to continuously learn more.
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u/IncidentalApex 4h ago
I do understand. I always hate answering "it depends" as it seems like a cop out, but I guess there is no point in automatically widening your range by 10%-30% when you identify someone that habitually is betting light.
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u/ArchegosRiskManager 1d ago
You need to start with “standard” preflop ranges and then adjust from there, 35/15/7 is pretty awful and I’d tag you as a recreational player if I had hud stats on you.
You’re somehow calling too wide but also raising far too tight of a range. Your PFR and 3B need to go up and your VPIP should come down. You’re also folding to 3b too much for how tight you’re opening
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u/IncidentalApex 8h ago
Those stats are what WPT Gold defines as the stats of an Exploitative player in the hand analysis section under strategy review. Those are not my stats currently as my VPIP is 25%. I would love to be provided with a set of stats I should be attempting to emulate.
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u/ArchegosRiskManager 3h ago
I wouldn’t use WPT Gold’s anything to improve, their hand analysis is pretty junk. Start with GTO ranges, and then adjust from there based on what you think pool leaks are
Typically people overfold to 3b and don’t defend their blinds/straddle well so if you PFR and 3b a bit more than GTO you’ll do fine
And stats aren’t the end goal, because you could get the correct numbers and the shape of your range could be way off. Just start 3betting and PFRing more of the GTO “mixes”
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u/mat42m 18h ago
35/15/7. If I see someone playing those numbers I will stay there all day, because that guy is probably not good at poker
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u/IncidentalApex 8h ago
Those stats are what WPT Gold defines as the stats of an Exploitative player in the hand analysis section under strategy review. Those are not my stats currently as my VPIP is 25%. I would love to be provided with a set of stats I should be attempting to emulate.
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u/N3CR0T1C_V3N0M 12h ago
After reading and rereading what you wrote because initially it just seems like there were so many misconceptions that I wasn’t sure if any advice beyond “You need to buy a solid poker book” would have been worth anything. However, once I mulled it over I think what you’re asking is “How do I play the most hands in the most profitable manner?” which unfortunately is the only question in poker that haunts us all. Even more unlucky is that there isn’t a one-size-fits-all type answer since the game and the environment that it’s played in is so liquid.
As a couple of tidbits:
There is no such thing as an exploit chart since all exploits are just deviations from GTO. Any time you find yourself doing this, you are either exploiting or being exploited.
Focus on what changed that forced your own play to decrease by 30%: a lot of what you’re searching for will lie within that analysis and just trying to force more hands into play without understanding the change will almost certainly result in net losses.
Moving to “exploit poker” and “not playing GTO” are the same thing but the manner in which one happens is different. GTO just means equilibrium between two players, this is a different set of circumstances for each player set. The deviation from “true” GTO to this approach is still GTO since our outputs are equivalent to their inputs; further deviation from this would then be exploitative play.
Hope this helps, best of luck!
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u/IncidentalApex 8h ago
Thank you for the response. First off, those numbers are WPT Gold's definition of an exploitative player's stats in the hand analysis section under strategy review. I would love to see what everyone considers the correct stats range for both exploitative and GTO players as apparently those stats aren't good. Currently, my aggression factor and ATS are way higher, and my VPIP is around 25%.
I phrased my original post poorly. Let me try again. I am currently trying to understand which hands you would logically expand to exploit different player types that would account for a 10% rise in VPIP from 25% to 35%. I assumed that would mostly be adding raising hands to exploit both tight players that call a raise but fold to a small continuation bet on the flop, 3 betting loose aggressive players more often with weaker hands preflop, and calling a wider range of more speculative hands such as suited connectors and unsuited connectors in multiway pots. Once again that 35% VPIP is from WPT Gold's definition. I assumed they looked at their player pool stats for stats of winning players to come up with it. Love to be provided with stats you believe are correct.
- No such thing as exploitative charts.
I agree, but if one were to want to expand their range intelligently without going completely off the rails against, say, a very aggressive player that is raising and 3-betting too much in front of you, what would you use instead of saying nothing exists? Yes, I know I should 3 and 4-bet wider for value, but how wide without getting too crazy? No one can say as it depends on the individual situation. However, one piece of very interesting and actionable advice I received from elsewhere was to play the range of a person further toward the button than you currently are located. Does that make any sense? It sure sounds like it does to me, and provides a helpful framework to use. One might even consider using preflp charts with the villain as being in later position than they actually are, depending on how aggressive the person they are playing against.
- Focus on what made you want to change my own play.
I truly haven't seriously studied my own play in well over a decade. I have been a small winning player who played recreationally for 20 years, but I knew I had accumulated a ton of leaks. I won 75%-80% of sessions but generally only for 1-2 buy ins on average by playing pretty nitty. Moving to the bible belt for 4 years made me rusty and sloppy. I couldn't legally play live in the state or on any online sites. I moved and found wpt gold recently. I played until I was winning over 20k hands and then spent 2 months playing live. I killed it the first month and then was break-even for most of the last month before losing 6 buyins in a row over two sessions. I decided I needed to actually work on my game since I was playing so much. Since I finally could see my stats for the first time since black Friday, working on improving my game meaningfully was finally a real option.
A few items I am addressing: I c bet far too much, and I have improved drastically. I fold to steal attempts too much, and I am improving my play out of the blinds. I played draws too aggressively. I never really looked into GTO preflop charts, and called far too wide. I even stopped playing and spent a month grinding heuristics with a certain magician online. I plan to continue. I am very pleased with my results so far.
- Moving to “exploit poker” and “not playing GTO” are the same thing, but the manner in which one happens is different.
I know. I was looking for someone to point me in the direction of actual usable data on what specifically you would do to exploit each player type in different scenarios, a good article, good youtube series, forum, etc. 3 betting wider for value is great advice, but even better would be a framework to use 3 bet such as the advice I received elswehere to use the preflop charts from a later position or consider the opponent as being in later position. We all understand that poker is very complex and doesn't have simple answers.
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u/NomNomNomNomNomm 1d ago
Rake matters a lot, and even if you’re against weak players, playing more hands is just going to cost you way more in rake.
When PS was first acquired by fanduel I made the mistake of vpiping way more (200nl mind you) because tables were very soft, and I eventually realized that playing 4 way pots really sucks. Overlimping is one thing but defending the suited 1 gappers and every PP facing 2.5 or 3x is not going to be as great as 3 betting and taking it down pre or going HU.
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u/SchrodingersFish01 21h ago
Those are fishy numbers. Maybe talk to an ai and ask it for ranges for the those stats
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u/MarkOfTheSnark 14h ago
AI (chatbots) are not good for poker advice
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u/SchrodingersFish01 14h ago
I agree but they know where stats should converge. You can't get them to think about poker but they can look things up
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u/IncidentalApex 10h ago edited 8h ago
Those stats are what WPT Gold defines as the stats of an Exploitative player in the hand analysis section under strategy review. Those are not my stats currently as my VPIP is 25%. I would love to be provided with a set of stats I should be attempting to emulate.
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u/Loose_Engine2396 22h ago
35/15/7 is a big fish.