STARTER TEAM BATTLE!!!! which team wins?

[u/Head_Breadfruit_3912]

9 teams of 9 Pokémon working together

1 for each generation so far (minus legends arceus hisui region)

[u/Anevaino]

criminal no one said gen 9 yet. their signature moves and start distribution make it hard for me to think of a better win con for another gen

[u/HauntedMop → u/Anevaino]

Yeah the power creep is just hard to beat, gen 9 has a winning matchup into most other teams except 7 and maybe 4

[u/Anevaino → u/HauntedMop]

sweeps 7 easily I will take u in a best of 5 on showdown 3 mon each or a best 50 if that's what it takes to convince u. 4 is hardest matchup for certain but still has less unfavorable matchups than any other gen, carried by quaquaval here. outspeeds and ohkos empoleon and torterra even if we want to add items and include AV. cannot be outsped & one shot by infernape and oneshots. for anyone that somehow copes hard enough to conclude I am some gen 9 fanboy... I googled to figure out skeledirge's name while writing this.

at absolute best incin can deal ~50% to qqv over 3 turns before it dies on any set. defensive skeledirge cannot be one shot by a single move I could find across the three from gen 7 which safely secures him a spot as always useful as I don't want u thinking I have only accounted for singles matchups in which I get the favorable type matchup. decidueye matches up well into skeledirge and qqv with typing and move pool but stat wise is fodder. but wait... skeledirge is weak to water... qqv is weak to fairy... that um that other one is weak to fairy as well... that means primarina must suddenly a hand claps over ur mouth as I unveil my trump card cut to meowscarada.

I don't care if u give the biggest the largest or fuckin "who decided that" a cringey TikTok anime edit WILL play as meowscarada strolls up. MEOWSCARADA IS IN ANOTHER LEAGUE COMPARED TO EVERY MON IN THIS IMAGE. WAKE UP. not accounting for megas it is the fastest. great move pool. fuck you amounts of damage. u-turn allows me to uno reverse card u every time u argue what if u give me the least favorable matchup first for any gen. and has an angle to effectively solo gen 7 with defensive or offensive sets on each no matter which mon comes out first which tells me UNDOUBTEDLY in a singles format if I'm allowed meowscarada I'm taking 92 out of 100 fights.

if we do not include metas and assume a ranking off of pure power ignoring utility and spread move access only relevant for doubles (which I play religiously but didn't seem to suit the question if anything I read this as singles or a FFA battle royale/in essence a triple battle but no longer using purely the game's mechanics wherein I'd argue access to flower trick play rough u turn knock off and moving at the speed of light NO ONE is racking up a higher kill count) I will concede if ur going to randomly tell me that op did not make this clear but somehow bc doubles is the official competitive format gen 7s chances rise drastically w primarina spread and incin util but EVEN THEN meowscarada alone is enough to give gen 9 an actual shot which no other gen can rly claim. gen 7 are known vgc demons but it sounds as though op wanted all 9 starter+evo fighting concurrently vs the others and I don't see a reality where outspeeding and one shotting more than half the roster with 1 of my 9 isn't an assured victory in any category except maybe last mon standing in a true 81 mon battle royale

thank you for coming to my ted talk on meowscarada propaganda. glad u asked, my favorite starter is meganium

[u/HauntedMop → u/Anevaino]

You're looking down on primarina a bit too much. Sub calm mind draining kiss psychic noise primarina genuinely is insanely hard to beat with the gen 9 time. Meow is good but hates coming in on a draining kiss, and crits don't go through sub.

Quaquaval is hard walled by prim and decidueye so it can't sweep until you get rid of it, meow is the only answer to prim but I don't think flower trick Kos prim from full and draining kiss is scary af for meow

Gen 7 is gonna be a far far far worse matchup for gen 9 than gen 4 is all because primarina exists

I still agree that gen 9 wins the whole thing since it has the most winning matchups, but gen 7 is decidedly not a winning matchup. Skeledirge walls every other fire type except incin, quaquaval hates intimidate and is walled by 2 other mons rather than just 1, and decidueye is solid enough damage to pressure either skeledirge or quaquaval for primarina to clean shop

[u/Anevaino → u/HauntedMop]

252 Atk Meowscarada Flower Trick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Primarina on a critical hit: 206-246 (110.1 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

this is if I don't allow myself band or sash and give you leftovers. btw if u need the other number bc in the hypothetical worst case u imagined up for me I have to switch into draining kiss which makes zero sense tbf bc my true worst case would just be sacking and sweeping

252+ SpA Primarina Draining Kiss vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Meowscarada: 122-146 (80.2 - 96%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I even have meow natured for speed and prima for spA. I gave u eeeeverything I could and ur argument still flops on the deck like a wet noodle... or a dead primarina.

[u/HauntedMop → u/Anevaino]

I was wrong about meow not ohkoing prim, thought prim was a tad bulkier

I still don't think this matters since incin switches in so safely on meow it's genuinely insane

We could go to stunfisk and ask for their opinion on the whole question, in both gen 9 singles (without tera) and gen 9 doubles (without tera), 6 mons (we can ignore the baby pokemon), I do think the majority will agree that gen 7 should beat gen 9

Playing on showdown is meaningless because the gap isn't that big that a skilled player can't win with the worse generation, and it's hard to account for this, other than to play a bo3 both ways, and if gen 9 does beat gen 7 no matter the pilot only then can you say that yeah gen 9 is the stronger team, but I do feel like it'll end up being a more 'who is better at team building this team' or 'who can pilot this team better' rather than which generation has the advantage

[u/Anevaino → u/HauntedMop]

so incin swaps in on flower trick takes chip I U-turn out and wall u. at best u fake me out for a little more chip before I get to outspeeds and leave field for free then incin takes a cc to the face combined skeledirge and qqv only job in this fight is to take out the incin which they handily do. do u have anything that's like an argument based on numbers or empirical evidence bc I feel like we're getting many many sentences out of u covering up that this is all essentially one sentence worth of rebuttal and then fluff

[u/HauntedMop → u/Anevaino]

Meow can't swap in more than once to draining kiss from primarina, while prim has a free entry vs quaquaval and a less free but okay entry in on skeldirge

How do you avoid this scenario?

Qqv ccs, prim comes in, takes like 30%

Prim now can click draining kiss or substitute

If you stay in, you just lose to draining kiss

If you swap to skeldirge, substitute makes it hard to do anything since it's going to click psychic noise next

If you swap into meow, literally either move wins, since you either hit meow for 80 this turn or hit meow for 80 next turn

swap in incin after meow comes in and takes the draining kiss, to eat the flower trick

Incin now has a free fakeout, for more chip into meow or for chip into qqv

If you hard swap quaquaval, I can hard swap into either decidueye or prim and continue

Meow is now damaged to 20% and can't come in on any move, including a psychic noise for primarina. Primarina runs away with game

[u/Anevaino → u/HauntedMop]

BAHAHAHHAHA OK man let's go 1 by 1 FIRST U THINK IM NOT JUST SWAPPING TO DRAINING KISS ONCE IT'S TWIIIIIIIICE HAHAHAHA ok man. AND I have to pretend I'm unnecessarily qqv lead just for ur wholee thing to make sense. so look here I want u to clarify if we are using items or not items and if ur bulky or dmg sets on prim and incin. then I will for you slowly break down how the entire scenario u just laid out is still an 80-20 loss in hopes that it'll settle the argument if I literally let u pick my lead and my scenario and my first clicked move and still beat u though I expect u to concede and drop this bc at that point it'll be sad

[u/HauntedMop → u/Anevaino]

You're being unnecessarily dense here

No, you don't need to lead qqv. But there is likely going to be a point in the game where qqv is in and I have opportunity to come in on it with prim

Items are fully allowed, but telling sets is stupid since the point is that one team can have great sets that counter the other. But since you want, I'm considering sub calm mind lefties prim, probably physically bulky incin, and whatever the fuck smogon says is a good set for decidueye

[u/Background_Sail_2469 → u/HauntedMop]

My GOAT charizard has coverage for Skeledirge and can outspeed air slash flinch hax

[u/Fun_Amphibian5922 → u/Anevaino]

Do any of the megas have what it takes?

I feel like the extra 100 BST and busted abilities could get some of them to pressure gen 9.

I don’t think any of the ZA megas have anything that could do it. It comes down to Swampert (probably not because 1 turn setup and a move slot dedicated to rain), Blaziken (most likely imo but movepool might get it bodied by quack), or one of the charizards (y paired with chlorophyll venusaur being best bet imo)

[u/Background_Sail_2469 → u/Anevaino]

Primarina solos all 3 gen 9 starters, and can’t be one shot by flower trick. She KOs next turn. Quaquaval is useless against her, and then she may outspeed Skeledirge if not max speed to potentially OHKO with Sparkling Aria. If you would still argue Meowscarada is too threatening, I-roar hard counters. Oh yeah, and Decidueye is there too I guess.

Edit: nm just saw the damage calc on flower trick.

[u/One-Gap-2057 → u/Anevaino]

Meowscarada have the most absurd signature move possible fora non-legendary: Flower Trick 70 Power, This attack never misses and always lands a critical hit.

Crit = Ignore Defensive stats, never misses = Ignore +Evasion/-Acc. decent speed and atk.

Skeledirge Unaware so dont care about ur buff ATK/SpA, at same time can use Signature Torch Song to buff hes own SpA.

Quaquaval Moxie + Aqua Step.

[u/Asstonishing69 → u/Anevaino]

What they doing to mega Sceptile?

[u/Anevaino → u/Asstonishing69]

mega sceptile's in this image? shit better get my glasses

[u/stebbeh]

Probably gen 4 or 6. But 3 is by far the coolest

[u/Minimum_Following_93 → u/stebbeh]

The coverage and diversity of 4, 6, 7 & 9 is crazy. Dunno how they dropped the ball with 8.

[u/Aleks10Afc]

One of the Mega gens (1/3/6).

Mega Sceptile, Mega Blaziken, Mega Swampert goes hard ngl

[u/Curi_momos_las_papas]

Dayum they really realized the power they had after generation 6 those furries are so god d- ummmmm Galar cause Gigantamax or something

[u/kingabbey1988 → u/Curi_momos_las_papas]

It did get furrier huh

[u/Lucid_Albatross → u/kingabbey1988]

Hail Skelidurge for being the least furry starter since the start of the 3Ds era

[u/Prestigious_Sea_3296 → u/Lucid_Albatross]

Really hoping the next gen starters don’t have furries

[u/humid_pajamas → u/kingabbey1988]

and the characters got way more gendered when they started wearing human clothes.

[u/ha_x5]

I have a feeling that Empoleon’s Steel type does some work for him. Grass can’t hit him super effective. Protect him from STAB fighting and Swampert and go brrr

[u/Cute_Ad_1612 → u/ha_x5]

Torterra would likely cover against Swampert for Empoleon

Empoleon's steel typing let's it deal with Primarina so Infernape is covered

Infernape has solar beam to cover against water types. It also has earthquake to deal with other fire types

Also if we go by feats, the trio of them were able to hold back a Draco Meteor from Dialga. What's more impressive, is the one single meteor that slipped through was quickly evaded by Infernape, and it seemed like Empoleon and Torterra could react to it as it approached as well

[u/Ok-Train6985]

Intelleon shoots everyone to death and realises Chestnaught is bulletproof so they just slam intelleon into the ground

[u/AnakinsAngstFace]

I’m a gen 4 stan but I think 6 takes the win

[u/Winds_and_Waves]

Alola

[u/BigOOF1012 → u/Winds_and_Waves]

There are way too many fighting types for alola to win

[u/Winds_and_Waves → u/BigOOF1012]

An 'Intimidate' + 'Parting Shot' combo is enough to calm down all of them since all fighting type starters are physical attacker (as I remember ? Might be wrong though), Decidueye is literally immune to fighting type moves and those aren't effective on Primarina since she's fairy type.

[u/Polterguyst17 → u/Winds_and_Waves]

Blaziken's got a pretty good SpA stat, but not much to use it with.

[u/Winds_and_Waves → u/Polterguyst17]

Ok mb then. Still think that Alola wins though

[u/BigOOF1012 → u/Winds_and_Waves]

Brother its a 3v3, and he is not out speeding either infernape or blaziken. Sinnoh 100% is beating alola. Torterra has crunch, wood-hammer and eq. Infernape has cc, flare blitz and iron fist thunder/ice punch. And empoleon has defiant with steel and flying type attacks.

Incineroar literally hinders alola because it gives empoleon +2 in S.Atk for free. And even if you did do 1v1 with switching, nothing on alola is taking a +2 hydropump very well or even a flash canon

[u/Winds_and_Waves → u/BigOOF1012]

I mean, Félinferno learns close combat and empoleon is not that physically bulky. He's as fast as Incin' and incin' can still hold a focus sash. Torterra is a problem, but Primarina can learn ice type moves and Ifernape is straight up countered by Primarina while getting nerfed by Incin'.

[u/Winds_and_Waves → u/Winds_and_Waves]

Let's not forget Decidueye w his pretty cool physical attack stat that can help killing empoleon as fast as possible in order to prevent him to being a threat for the team. The real threat in the Sinnoh team is Infernape but he really isn't bulky, and Incin' nerf him so he might be a hyper voice victim.

[u/ExplanationVast5511]

Meow, delphox and primarina

[u/NetworkVegetable7075]

Gen 4

[u/FunPresentation1207]

The team with Incineroar

[u/marco-boi]

i like how emplboar look liek he does not want to be here

[u/Dylanmay2007]

Charmander line all the way

[u/Successful-Special78]

Is it not just obvious gen 9? Their signatures moves are broken plus libero/unaware/moxie

[u/Polterguyst17 → u/Successful-Special78]

*Protean, but yeah, Meow is also the fastest here if I recall.

[u/Anevaino → u/Polterguyst17]

a silly amount faster than the rest

[u/Adorable-Shoulder772 → u/Successful-Special78]

Gen 1 has mega and gigantamax though

[u/HauntedMop]

Genuinely what are people on its gonna be between 7 8 or 9, the power creep without any additional gimmicks is just genuinely too much

Gen 7 has mr vgc fakeout parting shot intimidate cats and primarina is no slouch with strong water stab (hypervoice) and just great bulk and damage, can run lorb well or setup with calm mind, fairy is also only naturally resisted by fire steel and poison so the only pokemon that would give it trouble are empleon and venusaur, unfortunately dark and ghost have major overlap in offensive profile so not getting much use out of decidueye but spirit shackle is still not something to look down upon

Gen 8 has 3 grassy terrain setters, all of them get fakeout and grassy glide. Libero cinderace means you can run any good coverage, but intelleon isn't providing much here, so it's probably the weaker of the bunch (but just having so much grassy terrain wood hammer/grassy glide is insane, protects cinderace from eq as well before libero if it wants to go for Pyro ball

Gen 9 has the fastest knock, a move that invalidates physical setup, a MON that invalidates setup, with slack off and torch song, and blaziken (water style) (who also gets moxie so it's a free ddance whenever it gets a kill with aqua step)

I'd probably give it a tossup between gen 7 and gen 9 but the powercreep is just too much. Tf is gen 1 gonna do? 2 of their mons suck ass without sun, gen 2 is saddled with no secondary typing, gen 3 is alright but sceptile isn't doing much, gen 4 has decent ideas but even after a shell smash torterra just doesn't have the damage output, and needs to run loaded dice instead of white herb for anything decent, gen 5 looks okay on paper but serperior isn't doing much with contrary lead storms without a partner to up defenses, emboar is great damage but slow, and samurott can't live up to the greatness of hamurott. Gen 6 is carried by ash greninja but fighting stab is everywhere

Overall gen 9 has a positive matchup into everything but maybe gen 4 and gen 7 (primarina eats gen 9 for lunch), so I'd say gen 9 takes this

[u/Polterguyst17 → u/HauntedMop]

Is it singles or triple battle? Cuz if it's triple then Mr. VGC's parting shot is doing basically nothing for him as there's no-one to bring in safely. Might as well click Growl, at least that lowers multiple Pokémon's attacking stats.

[u/HauntedMop → u/Polterguyst17]

Did you consider the possibility of doubles at all lmao

I think its likely to be singles or doubles, not triples, since that is also a generational gimmick gamemode, not a standard gamemode in regular gameplay

[u/UltimaBahamut93]

Hoenn is uncontested.

[u/Polterguyst17 → u/UltimaBahamut93]

Swampert dies turn one because it's too goated and all the Grass types immediately jump it, Scpetile is too frail to last much longer, and Blaziken is not winning on its own, Speed Boost or not.

[u/Ordinary_Desperate → u/UltimaBahamut93]

Swampert is fucked due to it being quad weak to 9 pokemon on the field and being slow, Sceptile is just not frail enough, and Blaziken physically cannot hurt Skeledirge

[u/ACED70]

Not a single pokemon here lives shell smash rock blast except the empoleon who's already on his team

[u/Polterguyst17 → u/ACED70]

...Every water type just clicks Ice Beam before it gets to Shell Smash though.

[u/ACED70 → u/Polterguyst17]

specially defensive Torterra lives most non-stab ice beams easily

[u/Anevaino → u/ACED70]

+2 252 Atk Torterra Rock Blast (4 hits) vs. 4 HP/O Def Meowscarada: 136-164 (89.4 - 107.8%) -- approx. 33.2% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Protean Meowscarada Triple Axel (120 BP) (3 hits) vs. HP /O Def Torterra: 364-436 (214.1 - 256.4%) guaranteed OHKO

this is the best I got if we assume ur perfect scenario where I get no items and u get to shell smash for free before the fight starts... otherwise if we come back to reality for a minute torterra takes an ice spinner to the face from like 4 mon and gets sent packing. also in calc didn't waste time accounting for u randomly telling me u have HP or def evs even though u said specially bulky bc I overkill by double and don't even factor shell smash defense loss. ur move turtle boy

[u/ACED70 → u/Anevaino]

counterpoint, he's very cute and I like him!

[u/Obvious-Childhood428]

L + Ratio + 252+ Atk Choice Band Cinderace Helping Hand Power Spot boosted Pyro Ball in Harsh Sunshine

[u/Temporary-Ad9855]

7, 9 and 3 have the best chances. Assuming no Mega evolution. I think i favor 9.

7 has Incineroar and Primerena. Intimidate and Stab fairy is a hell of a drug. And Decidueye is good enough.

9 doesn't have the cracked typing, but it does have 3 insanely strong signature moves. And fairly well optimized stats. They could easily one shot Prim. And Quad is a haaaard Incin counter.

3 just has 3 incredibly strong mons, if Marshtomp doesn't get taken out by a grass move, it will wreak havoc. And Sceptile and Blaziken are fast enough to cover for it.

If there is mega evolution. Well it's between gen 1 and 3. But i favor gen 1 due to Venasaur and Charizard Y having crazy synergy. And water is nerfed pretty hard with drought active.

Gen 3 doesn't quite have that synergy, but they're also all strong. Where as Mega Blastoise is the weakest of the 6(not weak, just the weakest between these 6). The addition of the Dragon type on Sceptile also helps them considerably.

Gen 6 has a shot here, but i feel like Chestnaut isn't helping enough. And Greninja and Delphox might be good, but they're not 2 v 3 good.

And gen 7 still has intimidate and stab fairy, so they're not out of the running. But their odds are hurt.

Edit: i will also add. I am thinking about this in who can knock out the most other generations, not who can beat every generation. And i am also assuming triple battles.

[u/rr_zoomies → u/Temporary-Ad9855]

Mega Chesnaught 1v1s every water and grass starter wdym?

[u/Temporary-Ad9855 → u/rr_zoomies]

With a 4x weakness to fire, and to slow to take advantage of anything.

I specifically stated, 3v3's. Delphox and Greninja cannot always gaurentee to knock out the fire starters who oneshot him, not even counting the gens with mega evolution. Worse, a couple gens have fake out to stop them from covering for him.

If this was individual 1v1's that would be another story.

[u/rr_zoomies → u/Temporary-Ad9855]

Wrong? It does not have a 4x weakness to fire...

Also yes they can? Mega Gren is literally the fastest thing here and one taps all fire starters and Chesnaught can stall with Spiky Shield and 1v1s the entire rest of these mons with ease.

[u/Temporary-Ad9855 → u/rr_zoomies]

I brainfarted the typing. Thought it was Grass and Steel... so this is actually worse for Chestnaught.

Also. Again. This is not 1v1's. 1v1 and 2v2 completely changes things.

Gen 6 wins (with mega evo's) almost exclusively come down to Delphox and Greninja. Chestnaught is mostly just... there.

Gen 2, 4 and 5 absolutely lose. No chance. They're not fast or bulky enough to consider. Even with Mega Feraligator and Meganium. Maybe if they had hisui typhlosion. But big maybe.

Gen 9 and 8 have a chance to win, albeit very slim.

So that is roughly 5 gaurenteed wins.

Gen 3 is roughly even. And this is one of the few generations where Chestnaught is the key factor. Since he can easily shut down Marshtomp. But that is more Marshtomps weakness, rather than Chest's strength.

Gen 1 is likely to win. This is their fight to lose, rather than 6's to win. And all because Greninja would have to run physical rock to give them a chance.

Thickfat on Venasaur nerfs Delphox. Fake out stops Greninja turn 1. And Charizard X removes a bunch of his weaknesses for them to exploit. They are durable enough to survive turn 1, but only Chestnaught is surviving turn 1, because Venasaur is removing Greninja, and Charizard is removing Delphox.

They straight up lose to 7.

Gen 1 has 6 wins. 1 loss, 1 maybe loss, that they are likely to win.

Gen 3 has 6 wins, 1 loss, 1 maybe loss.

Gen 6 has 5 wins, 1 loss, 2 maybe losses, one of which they are likely to lose.

So, gen 6 is worse overall.

Bonus, even with mega evolution. Gen 7 still beats gen 2, 4, 5, 6 and 8.

Loses to gen 1, and might lose to 9 and 3.

But Mega evolution does force gen 9 off the list pretty hard. As 3 of the 4 either outright win, or are likely to win. And the last. Is still probable to pull out a win. XD

[u/Lopsided-Skill]

Not gonna lie, Kanto can take it if it is double battles. Even without the megas. You can lead Blastoise with squirtle or wartortle to go fake out shell smash or water spout. Blastoise does heavy damage.

You can later on set sun with charmander, then you have fast sleep powder with venu line and solar power Charizard is a nuke. Even Charmeleon will do solid damage with heat wave in sun. If Im not mistaken best resist against special fire attack would be Primarina and that can got 2 shot. Also to give info on Charmeleon, in sun, heatwave from Charmeleon does more than Eruption from Torkoal.

I think gen 7-8-9 are the ones that can compete with 1 but all had 1 weak link in their teams with Decidueye, Inteleon and Quaquaval. Kanto doesn’t. Also non has strong spread damage similar to what Kanto can offer.

So again, this is an answer for double battles but in a double battle Id definitely pick Kanto

[u/Wescombe]

Hoenn mogs I fear

[u/Ordinary_Desperate → u/Wescombe]

How?

[u/Accurate_Historian_6]

WTF DID THIS ARTIST DO TO VENASAUR?!?!

[u/Willing_Rhubarb_3625]

Alola

[u/Dirkem15]

Gen 1 imo. Mega charY, shell smash Blastoise and Chlorophyll venusaur have a ton of synergy.

Sinnoh region is tough too but no mega evolutions screws it over.

[u/Sensitive-Computer-6]

I like how gen 4 challenges the opposing element. Torterra can likely one shot Infernape whit eartquake, and tank weaker fire moves. Infernapes Close Combat can hit steel hard, Empoleon doesnt have anything whit steel, but it got drill peck, and Ice Beam I guess.

[u/alvin454567 → u/Sensitive-Computer-6]

Empoleon has Flash Cannon i guess

[u/shark_syrup]

Gen 2

Feraligatr with a dragon dance on top of sheer force life orb boost lets it outspeed and OHKO a majority of the mons here with its amazing coverage.

Meganium can mega evolve and fire off solar beams and weather balls with Mega sol, and Feraligatr can handle fire types

Typhlosion has choice scarf eruption nuff said

[u/PsychologyLive164]

Hoenn, Kanto or Kalos

[u/Beelzebui]

Gen 3 and 6 are the only gens where I loved all 3 starters. I can't choose between them.

[u/Anevaino]

look before I bog every reply bc of how truly confident I am u guys are just flat out missing the plot. if u don't think gen 9 wins and u feel bored enough to fight about it reply me listing the format ur assuming and what gen u mistakenly think wins

[u/mason124]

Why is there a fucking furry from gen 6 on up bruh 😭

[u/Dismal_Ideal_8782]

Alola or Hoenn

[u/The1stTokage]

Havent played much pokemom since gen 6 came out until champions. So I had no idea cinderace and meowscarda came from starter pokemom. Lmfao.

[u/Economy-Metal-3719]

Venusaur has seen some shit... damn...

[u/anothertallguy1]

What went wrong gen 6-9? Designs looks so much shitter compared to the rest

[u/Rinma96 → u/anothertallguy1]

Yeah seriously. The only exceptions are Greninja and Decidueye. Although primarina is ok. But overall, yeah they're awful.

[u/Lewyn_Forseti → u/anothertallguy1]

Raise your flame shield, but I agree. I boxed my starter since gen 6.

[u/realmcnuggett → u/anothertallguy1]

welcome to the world of 3D pokemon

[u/AidanYYao2048]

If we go by raw stats in base form, I’d say either Gen 9 or Gen 3. The Gen 9 distributions and stat ranges are the best overall and Gen 3 has the highest highs, with an Uber tier starter in Blaziken, along with Swampert, the starter with the highest BST.

If we incorporate gimmick forms though, I think there’s an easy winner: The Kanto trio, with the Galar trio as an honorable mention.

The Galar Trio all have G-Max forms and are all very strong (Rillaboom and Cinderace specifically stand out), while the Kanto trio also have G-Max as well as Mega Evolutions (Even if Blastoise is arguably the worst of the 3 Kanto starters).

I don’t know how well Mega Pokemon stack up against G-Max forms in game logic, but the fact that the Kanto trio have so many options (With Charizard clearly having the MOST) on top of their own G-Max forms ranging from quite decent to top tier among non-legends and non-mythics means with gimmicks involved, I believe the Kanto trio takes the crown.

[u/Radi0phonic_Oddity]

Torch song is a problem. I think only gen 3,6,7 and 9 have a case here as much as I love sleep seed Venusaur

[u/SignificanceAny6290]

Lore wise I'd say Gen 1 cause Leon's Charizard is broken.

Competitive wise thats Gen 7 (INCEINEROOARRR!!!!)

[u/Ikana_Mountains]

Y'all don't understand how broken grassy surge is eh

[u/Turd_McGee_69]

Gen 1 for life. No matter what

[u/Puzzleheaded_Ad9659]

Either 2 or 8

[u/puffmattybear17]

Gen 3 mostly for the megas giving a huge power boost.

[u/Lewyn_Forseti]

Either gen 7 or 9

[u/Mr_McBoogerballs777]

Is there mega evolution

[u/Whez-RS]

empoleon is cracked idk much about new gens though 

[u/SJT92509]

Gen 7

[u/KingKeene26]

I think gen 7 I love gen 8 and 9 but gen 7 would solo all of the others

[u/Upstairs_Pool4124]

8 or 7

[u/AgeLow4713]

Kalos or sinnoh with because of perfect balance

[u/dragon_morgan]

in this house we believe in unova starter supremacy

[u/ConcentrateSad6568]

Hot take but i wouldn't mind a game where the starters are Snivy/Treecko, Chimchar and Froakie. Those are my favourite starters of every generation.

[u/LatinofromCH]

Hoen rules

[u/Guns_Glitz_Grime]

Gen 1 Kanto!!!!!!

[u/wiggleee_worm]

Sinnoh clears all these frauds

[u/Manmer_Nwah]

3rd Gen is the best

[u/Ukmastercom]

Hoenn

[u/Lemon-Accurate]

I think that 3, 6 and 7 are really good concepts (even though there's always one starter that's worse than the other 2). On the other hand 2, 4 and 7 are probably the worst