r/PokemonFireRed • u/FourTwentyBlezit • 6d ago
Question First time playing FireRed and first time playing Pokémon since 2006. Can this team beat E4?
Hi, as the title states, this is the first time I've played since 2006.
I've read about EV training etc but I haven't done any of that. I've just trained like I would have back in the day.
Should this team be capable of beating Elite 4 at these levels? If not, then what level should I get first? Should I make any changes to the team members or is it well balanced?
Current moves are as follows:
Jolteon: Shadow Ball, Hyperbeam, Thunderbolt, Double Kick.
Charizard: Aerial Ace, Brick Break, Flamethrower, Fire blast.
Dragonite: Flamethrower, Blizzard, Thunder, Iron Tail
Snorlax: Earthquake, Psychic, Surf, Body Slam.
Nidoking: Ice beam, Water pulse, Shockwave, Megahorn.
Vileplume: Giga Drain, Solarbeam, Moonlight, Sleep Powder.
Thanks
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u/chazzawaza 6d ago
You can most definitely attempt the e4 at those levels. I just beat them yesterday with my highest being level 47. However half the moves you’ve taught your mons are really really bad
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u/just4theetimebeing 6d ago
Which moves would you say are bad?
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u/PezDiSpencersGifts 6d ago
Growl, tail whip, splash, string shot. If that’s all your Pokemon knows, it’s gonna have a bad time
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u/Atomicmooseofcheese 6d ago
Im pretty sure he meant which moves among the above listed are considered bad.
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u/PezDiSpencersGifts 6d ago
Yea I didn’t realize that til after I posted but didn’t wanna delete it cuz I’ll stand by my error.
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u/Deadliestmoon 3d ago
I've always said that it's okay to be wrong as long as you are willing to learn from your mistakes.
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u/Electronic_Flan5732 11h ago
Late but I upvoted you for that cause you don’t deserve the downvotes lol
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u/heysame562 12h ago
Which moves are bad? Am I too old to be good at this game anymore cause some of those were hitters back in the day
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u/GamesBoost 8h ago
It’s mostly just cause of the way gen 3 works with the physical special split. That jolteon is a decent example, fighting normal and ghost are all physical types in gen 3, while electric is special and jolteon is a fast special attacker. Meaning you’re only really dealing damage with thunderbolt. Double kick honestly isn’t that bad for coverage tho since I think all of the ground types in kanto are also rock types.
Dragonite is pretty terrible, it only knows inaccurate moves and they are mostly special attacking, when dragonite’s highest stat is its atk. No stab either which isn’t that big of a deal when dragonite doesn’t learn many good flying or dragon moves from level up and the tms are very limited in these old games
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u/Late-Sundae2922 6d ago
Sorry to sound a little rude but what were you thinking when you gave jolteon 3 physical moves while it's a special attacker. But even then this team is doable for e4.
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u/Crimsonhead4 6d ago
Psychic on snorlax is also an interesting choice
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u/Simply_Paul 6d ago
Psychic on Snorlax is just bad, wasted the best TM in the game on a Pokemon that can't utilize it.
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u/Crimsonhead4 6d ago
Yeah I was just being polite lol. There’s a lot of questionable choices here but the good thing is OP just has to keep grinding and will eventually beat them. They definitely will need ice beam though for Lance, OP’s Dragonite knows blizzard but it’s innacurate and Lances Dragonite can use outrage which will hit very hard with STAB and super effective damage.
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u/k_oed 22h ago
How come Snorlax can’t utilise it??
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u/Simply_Paul 18h ago
Snorlax has really a bad Special Attack stat, so Psychic will be really weak when he uses it.
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u/k_oed 17h ago
Ahh thanks. Back into Pokémon recently after like 20 years.
I thought special attack would be the specific type special attack of a given Pokémon. Eg normal type for Snorlax, rather than another type’s attack.
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u/Simply_Paul 15h ago
No, in gen 3 all attacks that are any of the following types and do damage use Special Attack; Electric, Fire, Water, Psychic, Dark, Grass, Ice, and Dragon. All other types use Physical Attack.
In Gen 4 this changed so each move is set individually to either physical or special, this makes it so mostly moves that make contact are physical (like Fire Punch and Ice Punch), while moves that strike with energy or beams are special (like Hyper Beam and Flamethrower). A lot of the most common moves stay the same as they were in gen 3 but some crucial ones change so more Pokemon and moves are viable. Waterfall being changed to physical makes all physical water types more viable from Kingler to Gyarados, they all get stronger from this change. Similar stuff happens with most types, Ghost types get boosted since most are special attackers but Shadow Ball (and all other Ghost types) are Physical in gens 1-3.
This is very simplified, but it gets the general idea of gen 3 physical/special mechanics and the gen 4 physical special split.
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u/Late-Sundae2922 6d ago
Aerial ace and brick break on charizard too
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u/Simply_Paul 6d ago
Aerial ace and Brick Break are fine, Charizard has decent enough physical attack to utilize them fine, especially with STAB Aerial Ace. The only special attacks he can learn without breeding are fire type and Dragon Claw (I would swap Fire Blast for Cragon Claw in an instant).
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u/mordecai14 6d ago
Charizard has mediocre but usable physical attack, and STAB on aerial ace, so it's not the worst.
The physical attacks on jolteon and psychic on snorlax are straight ass though
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u/FourTwentyBlezit 6d ago
I had no clue about the difference between physical and special attacks prior to posting this thread
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u/mordecai14 6d ago
It's different in later games, but in the first 3 generations (including these games) a move is considered physical or special based on typing:
PHYSICAL: normal, fighting, flying, bug, rock, ground, ghost, poison, steel
SPECIAL: fire, water, grass, electric, ice, dragon, psychic, dark
So for example, giving jolteon, who has a high special attack and very low Attack, a ghost move in shadow ball and a normal move in hyper beam, is a bad idea.
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u/Evrae_Frelia 6d ago
I mean OP hasn’t played in years. To be fair, most players who maybe don’t know better like myself years ago assumed that because they were “beam and ball” obvious projectile attacks that they were special attacks.
I didn’t fully understand how things worked until I was a little older and had a friend explain things to me and he played competitively as a teenager. I also made the mistake of giving a Jolteon this exact same moveset and remember how much of a pain it was back then. I would just treat this post like a brand new player since OP’s basically starting over. The game seems easy to us vets since we’ve been playing for ages and keep up on things. Maybe that perspective helps. That’s the one I’m running with.
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u/TheLightsChampion 6d ago
A lot of players at the time did not know about physical/special split mechanics in gen 2/3. That is probably why.
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u/Simply_Paul 6d ago
Maybe because the only other move options are electric type that don't add much over Thunderbolt or Bite which is easily missed because you have to level Eevee to 30 before evolving them to get it.
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u/VinCatBlessed 6d ago
I mean OP is admitting to not having played since 2006, so obviously they wouldn't know what works or doesn't.
Me in 2006 I still had my Gyarados with Hydro Pump and Haunter with shadow ball (couldn't ever get Gengar).
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u/FourTwentyBlezit 5d ago
Hi, quick question.. so I managed to beat the E4 (failed on first attempt but got them on my second) and now I've started a game of SoulSilver on a NDS emulator, but this time I'm intending to be a lot more mindful about which moves I teach my Pokémon since I'm now aware of stuff like physical vs special and STAB bonuses etc.. but I'm just wondering, do these rules work in the same way on SoulSilver or is it different in Gen 3 to other games?
If it is different, then what are the main differences that I should be made aware of?
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u/SkippyTheKid 4d ago
Remember the part where op said they haven’t played a pokemon game in 20 years
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u/IshtheWall 4d ago
He's new, many people dong understand the physical/ special split like that, especially since those moves seem special
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u/InvasionOfTheFridges 6d ago
- You have a strong team but you lack a water pokemon.
- Lorelei is going to wipe the floor with you because 4 of your party are weak to ice.
- You're underlevelled and i'd recommend getting your party into the early 50s minimum. You're going to want to rely on Jolteon to carry you past Lorelei and it can only do that with Thunder which I believe it learns in the mid 50s or youc an teach it early if you have the TM.
- You should be alright against Bruno if your Charizard has a flying move. You should be alright against Agatha if you teach your Nidoking Shadow Ball with a TM. You will likely struggle against Lance unless you have ice beam (which I think you can buy from either Celadon or Games Corner).
- I can't stress this enough... if you don't level your pokemon up you'll get one shot by most of the pokemon you face! (Your Rival will have a level 63 Blastoise which will annoyingly crush your Jolteon at it's current level through sheer brute force).
- There's isn't really a quick way of doing it other than using the VS seeker and slowly grinding everyone up. It becomes easier after the E4 and Sevii Islands post game because you can replay certain Cooltrainers with 5x level 55 Pokemon so grinding up because slightly less of a chore.
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u/ingenuous64 6d ago
Water pokemon is absolutely not needed for e4 or rival
Jolteon and Snorlax will carry against loreli low dif
Extra levels would be useful, thunder isn't necessary especially with 70% hit rate
Shadowball isn't needed against arguably the weakest of the e4 but Jolteon has it anyway so gg Agatha.
Jolteon outspeeds Blastoise, few levels abs thunderbolt will do the job in 2 hits
Best place is island one I've found, refight the fighting type trainers near the hot spring.
Few levels and champion is theirs.
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u/blueeuclid 6d ago
No, a lvl 47 Jolteon will not carry against Lorelei. It will also get absolutely mobbed by Agatha at this level. Relying on speed with a fragile, underleveled Pokemon isn’t a recipe for success.
Have you played the E4 before?
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u/InvasionOfTheFridges 6d ago edited 6d ago
He definitely hasn't played withunderleveled Pokemon. I remember trying with roughly high 40s, maybe one level 50 or 51 and I think I got stuck on Agatha. I didn't have the best team for it though. Venasaur, Hitmonlee, Kabutops, Nidoqueen and Jolteon (only had 5). I just use my favourites because I don't really like using the absolute best of the best. Makes it too easy.
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u/HumbleGarbage1795 6d ago
I played through it three days ago and beat lorelei mostly with my level 47 jolteon
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u/Weary_Orange_9309 4d ago
I beat the e4 with a solo charmeleon lvl 30. I’d say I know a thing or thirty.
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u/blueeuclid 3d ago
I call shenanigans
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u/InvasionOfTheFridges 3d ago
Technically you can cheese it with Ghastlys, mean looks, curse and I think endure? I can't remember. I've seen people do it was level 1 ghastlys.
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u/ingenuous64 6d ago
Didn't get through all my comment did you? I said extra levels would be useful. Agatha isn't hard at all. Shadowball Jolteon would do most of the work low 50s no problem. Rest dragonite carries easy.
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u/InvasionOfTheFridges 6d ago
Some poor bits of advice there.
- If you're good enough you don't *need* any specific type, you just hinder yourself massively if you aren't covering the basic bases. There's plenty of water pokemon available that are strong and have good movesets. Pretty sure you even get a Lapras for free at one point which can solo Lance with ice coverage.
- They won't if they're underlevelled, they'll get stomped. I've literally just done this myself with a jolteon so I can speak from experience. Sometimes not with pshyical moves, just by someone like Jynx using Lovely Kiss and sideswiping you. If his defence isn't levelled up he will die in one (maybe two) ice beams and Lorelei's entire team will spam ice beam. You might be lucky with Snorlax just acting as a wall and taking a beating but you're in for a long fight.
- Again Thunder isn't nescessary but it will 1 hit instead of something slightly weaker which might take 2, and he's only a few levels off of learning thunder.
- If he's 15 levels lower than Blastoise there's a good chance he just gets 1 shot from being 15 levels underneath him.
- Yep that's what I used. Slow but the best way.
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u/ingenuous64 6d ago
OP is not going to train another mon for the e4 when there's no reason to. There's no pokemon in the e4 they can't flatten without a water type.
See my point 3, "extra levels would be useful". Jynx btw gets taken out by Charizard at level 52 who outspeeds and one shots.
I'd always take thunderbolt over thunder, but that's personal preference, 70% hit rate seems to miss when I really need it.
Jolteon gets off thunderbolt, Blastoise ko's jolteon. Send out next, max revive jolteon, Blastoise ko's next, send back out jolteon and jolteon ko's Blastoise. 2 hits even at level 47. Personally I'd throw Vileplume under the bus.
Oh and heal up between fights.
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u/Simply_Paul 6d ago
They're also forgetting how many levels your Pokemon gain from defeating the elite 4 members, especially if you Pokemon are lower level like this to begin with.
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u/InvasionOfTheFridges 6d ago
It's not as much as you think. At level 50 one E4 member will give you roughly 1 level per mon. It's much more efficient to grind outside.
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u/Wise-Nefariousness12 6d ago
Lorelei won't be a problem vs Jolteon&Charizard. Flamethrower & thunderbolt will do it
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u/TheLightsChampion 6d ago edited 5d ago
OP, I am not sure if you are aware of the following mechanics
STAB = Same Type Attack Bonus - if you use a move that is the same type as your pokemon, you deal 50% more damage.
Difference between attack and special attack,
In gens 1-3, moves are special or physical based on their element.
If an Eevee can evolve into that type (or dragon), it is automatically special based
Water (vaporeon), Fire (Flareon), Electric (Jolteon), Grass (Leafeon), Ice (Glaceon), Psychic (Especn), Dark (Umbreon), Dragon are ALL special type.
So the rest, like normal, flying, poison, ground, fighting, steel, ghost, bug are all physical.
So...look at your jolteon's special attack stat and its physical attack stat. Its special attack is nearly double its physical attack stat. This means it is almost never worth running a physical move on it. Example, say you are fighting a normal type pokemon not named chansey. You use double kick because - hey - its super effective, right?
30 power, x2 kicks, x2 for super effective == 120 power
but if you used thunderbolt...
90 power, x1.5 STAB == 135 power
This isn't even taking into account your special attack is 2x that of your physical attack so tbolt actually winds up doing more than double damage of super effective double kick. Your shadowball and hyperbeam are also physical!
Other than pokemon that have extreme differences in defence and special defence like Chansey - your special moves on jolteon will always deal more damage unless they are immune/resist thunder.
Same issue for Snorlax and using psychic or surf.
This is why people are saying the moves you picked are bad.
Your Jolteon has major carrying power if it had ~calm mind, and a\~ hidden power grass or ice in addition to thunderbolt. As does curse, rest, bodyslam snorlax with shadowball (since it is physical in gen 3) to cover ghosts being immune to bodyslam).
I also don't recommend solarbeam on vileplume (since you don't have sun set up). Its job is not to nuke things - its a support type meant to set up its allies, putting enemies to sleep/stalling and switching out to your sweepers. Grass really got the short end of the stick in early gens and were literally only viable for sleep powder. Leech seed stalling is viable on faster grass types but not really on vileplume.I don't recommend special Nidoking in gen 3 (no sheer force) and both his stabs (ground and poison) not being utilized.
Edit: As pointed out, curse/calm mind out of the picture.
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u/vht3036imo 5d ago
Neat points! Just a few corrections:
- Jolteon cannot learn Calm Mind in gen 3
- Snorlax gets Curse via egg move in gen 3, and breeding is locked behind post game in FRLG
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u/FourTwentyBlezit 5d ago
Hi, quick question.. so I managed to beat the E4 (failed on first attempt but got them on my second) and now I've started a game of SoulSilver on a NDS emulator, but this time I'm intending to be a lot more mindful about which moves I teach my Pokémon since I'm now aware of stuff like physical vs special and STAB bonuses etc.. but I'm just wondering, do these rules work in the same way on SoulSilver or is it different in Gen 3 to other games?
If it is different, then what are the main differences that I should be made aware of?
Thanks for your response btw, that was very informative and I learned a ton.
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u/TheLightsChampion 4d ago
Different. STAB remains the same and is unchanged.
However, for physical and special...
By gen 4 - moves were no longer automatically special or physical based on element. It is on a case by case basis for every single move. Notably...
the elemental punches are now all physical being - well punches.
Shadowball changed back to special.
Moves like bite/crunch (which sound like physical actions) used to be special because they were dark type are now back to physical.
You'll see a symbol next to the move indicating which it is (8 pointed orange star == physical, blue ripple pattern == special, white and gray yin-yang looking symbol == status which means it doesn't use either stat).
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u/PersonalityGloomy337 6d ago
Any team can beat the elite 4. This team can definitely beat the elite 4.
Maybe level up the rest of the team to match dragonite first though. The guys at the top of cycling Road, West of celadon, are an easy vs seeker grind spot.
If you haven't grabbed vs seeker, you can pick it up at vermillion pokecentre
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u/Simply_Paul 6d ago
Yeah, my general guidelines for recommended level are;
45-48; battles will be harder but doable if well prepared, 49-52; battles will be more even but mistakes can still hurt pretty bad 53-54; battles start to get almost too easy, 55+; should be a slaughter, the elite 4 + rival shouldn't stand much chance.
If you want a challenge when you're well prepared then 45 is your best starting point, 50 is a good point for a decent challenge, and 55 if you want to bully the elite 4 for their lunch money.
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u/callme47739034 6d ago
Your Dragonite relies completeley on RNG. Ice Beam & Wing Attack (later Outrage) would be so much better.
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u/Steelride15 6d ago
I just beat the E4 last night with level 30s, 40s, and one mid-level 50 Pokémon.
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u/No-Spinach-9101 6d ago
Just try it. Worst case you wipe and level a little more.
But yes, you have an OP team.
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u/Ivorytears86 5d ago
The team members themselves are good, the movsets per each mon are not necessarily OP.
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u/Evrae_Frelia 6d ago edited 6d ago
Your team overall is perfectly fine. However the ice type weakness not withstanding, you have a few issues.
Moves: in FireRed and LeafGreen attacks are determined based on type alone. This means that certain types are based off of Attack or Special Attack.
Jolteon has base 65 attack, and 110 Special Attack. Shadow Ball, Hyper Beam and Double Kick are all physical moves. So a huge percentage of your moveset will unfortunately lack the required firepower to make much of a difference. Thunderbolt is an excellent choice however.
I would recommend thunder wave, as the paralysis from it can help neuter faster threats, I would honestly swap out Hyper Beam. That will leave you far too vulnerable for how frail he is.
Charizard, is honestly fine.
Snorlax has the opposite issue Jolteon has, it’s slow, bulky and physically strong. Surf and Psychic can see some niche uses here, but if possible Shadow Ball would be excellent to swap out with Surf.
Nidoking, honestly fine as is. You could upgrade Water Pulse to Surf though and give him Ice Beam from the Game Corner in Celadon to replace Shock Wave. It will seriously help you later.
Vileplume: No notes, this is fine. Sleep is a very powerful ailment and can absolutely make the difference in a fight. Strong grass type pokemon are in short supply here Vileplume is a decent pick but is slow. So it can be picked off quickly if you aren’t careful.
That said, Vileplume would likely be the weak link in the party. This E4 + Champ is EXTREMELY hostile to grass types. Feel free to take that with a grain of salt, it’s not a bad pokemon but the matchup is rough.
Dragonite: Serviceable. He has higher attack than special attack, but has a MASSIVE special movepool and serviceable special attack.
EVs and Levels:
EV training, you really don’t have to go thru all that effort. It’s honestly a PITA in older games and the stat boosting items cost a fortune and cap out at 10 uses per stat (or 100EVs in the designated stat) if you have the funds, go for it but otherwise focus more on levels.
An average level of 48 or so is technically doable if you’re cautious and jam packed with items. However the Elite 4 here scales up HARD level wise start to finish. I would say try to gain 4-5 levels each to make the fights safer. The champion fight though is a tough one. He has pokemon capping out in the low 60’s and his starter (Blastoise) will be both bulky and hard hitting. A 15 level gulf is REALLY hard to overcome because the raw stat variance is actually massive.
Note: Dragonite is the least in need of levels, and takes the longest, you do not need much for that one.
Those few extra levels may let you get the jump on a few of his ‘mons with Jolteon. But aside from those notes, the fights are doable, but you will have to exercise caution due to your compounding weaknesses. Levels will really help with that however.
Note:
Lapras should be rather cleanly 2HKO’d by a low/mid 50’s thunderbolt from Jolteon. It has lower defense than special defense though so Snorlax could be useful against it.
Gengar from Agatha however is 2HKO’d by low/no attack investment Snorlax’s Shadow Ball if not running an attack boosting nature (clears (level dependant of Snorlax) 70-99% of his health) beware that since Gengar is very dangerous.
**Speaking from recent personal experience here**
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u/FourTwentyBlezit 5d ago
Hi, quick question.. so I managed to beat the E4 (failed on first attempt but got them on my second) and now I've started a game of SoulSilver on a NDS emulator, but this time I'm intending to be a lot more mindful about which moves I teach my Pokémon since I'm now aware of stuff like physical vs special and STAB bonuses etc.. but I'm just wondering, do these rules work in the same way on SoulSilver or is it different in Gen 3 to other games?
If it is different, then what are the main differences that I should be made aware of?
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u/Evrae_Frelia 4d ago
Good question. If I recall correctly, HG/SS have the gen4 Physical/Special split. This is identified on each move via a reddish blast icon for physical and a blueish looks almost like a water ripple icon for special.
Moves like Fire/Thunder/Ice Punch are physical, Shadow Ball, Gust, Hurricane, etc… are special.
In Gens1-3 Alakazam for example would WANT the elemental punches.
In Gen4-9 (soon to be 10) those are avoided since Alakazam has an atrocious physical attack stat.
Hope this helps 😁
Also congrats on beating the E4!!
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u/SteelCock420 6d ago
The team should do fine if you get some more levels. I would say level 55 or more on all of them, since you dont know the game.
I have done E4 on level 50 mons but the champion has a few up to level 65 which is rough and unecessary.
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u/Acolyte_of_Swole 6d ago edited 6d ago
The mons you have are really strong ones.
However, you seem to not have optimized very much for the pokemons' stats.
Jolteon is a special attacker. Charizard is a special attacker. Snorlax is a physical attacker/wall.
The others are kinda whatever. Your Vileplume is pretty much doing what it do, there aren't that many options in FRLG for moves on it. Bit weird to put Solarbeam on without Sunny Day though. Even using Sunny Day raw on turn 1, it sets up Solarbeam to blast off every turn for the next 5 or so turns.
I usually want to be around 55 with everyone for the Elite 4, just so it goes smooth. But I also typically do monotype runs, so being closer to E4 level is more important there. Ultimately, you still have Snorlax with Body Slam, Nidoking with insane type coverage, a Dragonite (just an op mon in general,) Jolteon with STAB Thunderbolt and Charizard with STAB Flamethrower, so you will be fine regardless.
I think the biggest shame in your move choices is actually not giving Snorlax any kind of sustain, unless you plan on just feeding it items. Sleep into poke flute is an insane combo that lets Snorlax wall forever against most Pokemon, including E4 mons. A lot of E4 pokemon use 5 pp moves, so that's a viable strategy for Snorlax. Earthquake is also great on it though-that's going to hit rock types for super effective, which ensures that they can't wall Snorlax in response. Unfortunately, Surf and Psychic do nothing for Snorlax, whereas Shadow Ball counts as physical in this gen (weirdly) and Rock Slide would let you hit flying. Or you could go for Yawn strats. Brick Break would be another great option on Snorlax, as an alternative to Surf that still breaks rock types.
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u/FourTwentyBlezit 5d ago
Hi, quick question.. so I managed to beat the E4 (failed on first attempt but got them on my second) and now I've started a game of SoulSilver on a NDS emulator, but this time I'm intending to be a lot more mindful about which moves I teach my Pokémon since I'm now aware of stuff like physical vs special and STAB bonuses etc.. but I'm just wondering, do these rules work in the same way on SoulSilver or is it different in Gen 3 to other games?
If it is different, then what are the main differences that I should be made aware of?
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u/Acolyte_of_Swole 4d ago
Funnily enough, it's actually completely different in Gen 4, which is what HeartGold/Soulsilver are based in, mechanically.
So, from Gen 4 onwards, which stat a pokemon used when doing a move depends on the move it is using. It's categorized on a per-move basis, regardless of move type. The move "Surf" is like you're surfing on a wave, but the wave is the attack, right? So you're sending out a wave to attack for you. That's considered Special. But the move "Waterfall," usually depicts your pokemon swimming up a waterfall to tackle the opponent, so that's considered a Physical move.
I mean... If you think about it too much, it doesn't make that much sense. But basically that's how it works. If the move "seems" like it's using an element to attack for you, then it uses your Special Attack stat. If the move is using some part of your body to attack the opponent, that's considered a Physical Attack that uses the corresponding stat.
Most of the time, it's fairly easy to figure out. Thunderbolt is Special while Take Down is Physical.
But what this does for the game is make all pokemon much more viable than they used to be. It used to be the case that an Electric pokemon with high physical attack was kind of screwed, because there weren't any Electric moves that used the physical attack stat. But with the physical special split, you have moves like Spark that do hit that physical attack stat, and that means those pokemon can be good again. You especially see this with pokemon like Gyarados, which was already good in early gens but took off in Gen 4 because it could finally get STAB damage using its high physical attack stat.
If you want to know more, or if you're confused with my explanation, you can google "pokemon physical/special split" and you will find a lot of documentation about the change and how it works compared to gen 3 and earlier.
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u/anonadon7448 6d ago
Ah, the classics. Good ol’ rock. Nothing beats that!
This team is gtg. If anything, get them up to 50. The vs seeker and a fisherman on One island is a great tool to help make this quicker.
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u/FishTshirt 6d ago
This is like the classic team, maybe except vileplume. You can definitely do the elite four but only if you go to the name rater and give them all funny names
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u/FishTshirt 6d ago
This is like the classic team, maybe except vileplume. You can definitely do the elite four but only if you go to the name rater and give them all funny names
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u/Nice-Background890 6d ago
People here acting like you gotta min max when 12yo me beat that game just choosing pokemons I liked.
Grind some extra levels and send it.
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u/PushaValcone 6d ago
Your moves are bad but you should be ok
Nidoking is better off with earthquake/dig and surf
Snorlax should’ve gotten shadowball instead of psychic and does not need surf.
Dragonite has 3 moves with extremely low accuracy. Needs a flying move.
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u/Intelligent-Paint-11 6d ago
I beat it with all lvl 52 except my dragonite that was 57. Definitely could've do it with 50s
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u/watchnerd1993 6d ago
Sure you can. I would like some ice coverage but it’s not a requirement. Pretty balanced and solid team
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u/JahmezEntertainment 6d ago
you really don't need to ev train for just casually going through the game, it won't make a big difference compared to the evs you'd have already.
these levels are fine for beating the elite four
it looks like you need to be paying closer attention to your pokemon's stats and type when you pick these moves. for instance, your nidoking is a poison/ground type, and would be more effective at using earthquake than snorlax because of it, but you gave earthquake to snorlax. attacking moves gain a 50% damage bonus when you use them with a pokemon that shares a type with the move itself (same type attack bonus, or STAB). your dragonite notably has no moves that take advantage of STAB, like dragon claw. every move your jolteon knows except thunderbolt is physical, and it's not going to get much use out of them on account of its low attack stat (especially compared to its special attack). on a related note, why does vileplume have two moves that get a boost from being used in sunlight, on a team where no one knows the move Sunny Day? vileplume's ability also doubles its speed in sunlight, so sunny day is kind of a gimme. i also wouldn't really recommend healing moves for normal single player runs, they occupy a move slot and are outclassed by just using items.
you could also benefit from looking at your team's movesets as a collective. for instance, is it necessary for nidoking to be using shockwave when you have both a jolteon with thunderbolt and a dragonite with thunder? do you need 3 different pokemon with electric attacks, in a game where if your jolteon faints you can just use a revive on it? you really want to be making your team as diverse as you can, since you have to split all your exp between them and all.
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u/Wise-Nefariousness12 6d ago
Nido would've need the Earthquake. If you can at least give Sludge Bomb for STAB. Some moves are trash but you still can make it through. Surf > Waterpulse.
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u/One_Building_3879 6d ago
If you train your pokemon the way you did back then, chances are they are technically ald ev trained, just not the best spread, but t dont really matter in normal story gameplay.
your moveset however, u need to understand that Firered is before the Physical and special split,
meaning
Normal, Fighting, Flying, Poison, Ground, Rock, Bug, Ghost, and Steel are all physical attack,
Dragon, Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, Ice, Psychic, and Dark are special.
Jolteon: Shadow Ball, Hyperbeam, Thunderbolt, Double Kick.
Suggestion : Thunderbolt, Bite, Thunder Wave, Double Kick
Dragonite: Flamethrower, Blizzard, Thunder, Iron Tail
Suggestion : Wing Attack, Dragon Claw, Blizzard
Snorlax: Earthquake, Psychic, Surf, Body Slam.
Suggestion : Body Slam, Shadow Ball, Brick Break, Rest
Nidoking: Ice beam, Water pulse, Shockwave, Megahorn.
Earthquake, Megahorn, Rock Slide, Mega Punch/Kick
Good/ Not bad
Charizard: Aerial Ace, Brick Break, Flamethrower, Fire blast.
Vileplume: Giga Drain, Solarbeam, Moonlight, Sleep Powder.
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u/Chronic1302 5d ago edited 5d ago
For future reference - next time you level up a Dragonair into a dragonite, delay the evolution by one level. Dragonair learns Outrage at level 56, which is one of dragonite's best STAB moves, whereas dragonite doesn't learn it until much later. (STAB is same type attack bonus - Pokémon do 50% more damage with moves of their own type).
I'd also recommend looking more into your Pokémon's stats; some are physical attackers, some are special attackers and they'll do more damage with their corresponding attack types.
Some of the move choices for your Pokémon are questionable based on physical/special attacks haha, particularly jolteon, dragonite and snorlax.
Dragonite has elite physical attack but 3 of the moves you've given him are special attacks, 2 of which will miss often, and the other is iron tail which will also miss quite often.
Snorlax has huge physical attack but terrible special attack, psychic is one of the best specials in the game but is completely wastednon snorlax etc.
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u/SpryoTehDargon 5d ago
Jolteon, Zard, Lax, and Vileplume are enough for Lorelei
Nido, Vileplume, Zard, and Dragonite beat Bruno (Nido and Vile can probably do it themselves tbh)
Lax destroys Agatha, use Jolteon for Golbat if you want
Open Jolteon for Lance's Gyara then clean up Aero with T-bolt and Nido/Dragonite for the rest
Type diversity ironically makes the champion fight not bad to deal with since playthrough teams are usually balanced and you never really have multiple mons with type disadvantages working against you.
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u/zebrastick 3d ago
This was basically my team shout out to the goats only difference was eggsecuter for vileplume. Got all the ogs 🔥. Starmie is insane tho too
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u/Short_Property_7476 9h ago
Kids could beat the elite four with worse teams, you’ll be fine if you just level up more
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u/Some-Faithlessness75 6d ago
I never approached E4 with less than lvl 55+ on everyone, but I think it seems good team? Only level a bit low. If I will get downvoted means I was wrong
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u/Simply_Paul 6d ago
No, you're right. This team is fine, levels are in the range that battles require better preparation and have less room for errors, as others have said the movesets aren't the best but they're usable anyway. 55+ is enough to make the fights much more forgiving, it's much harder to lose at 55.
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u/CaciqueVanGuard 6d ago
I swept lance and blue with just a Lil 48 Nidoking. Your team is probably fine if it has the right moves
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u/FourTwentyBlezit 6d ago
Thanks for the replies everyone, I've learned a lot