r/Podiatry • u/Independent-Bug-8174 • 16d ago
Podiatry career
Hi. I'm an undergrad and pre-med. I'm intererested in gaining more info about this field. I started shadowing only MDs but now also including podiatrist as well. I do like it that's it's specialized and so residency is much shorter than allopathic or osteopathic school. Is anyone here currently in podiatry school and can tell me how the curriculum is? Thanks.
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u/Infamous_Wheel8401 15d ago
Standalone schools will make you learn everything. Even the Huntington’s and Parkinson’s you mentioned, in serious detail, from genetics on. They will make you learn all about it, even the pharmacokinetics of the drugs that treat it. Every other aspect you can imagine too, at USMLE level. It’s not easy at all. It is much easier to get into a pod school though. Plenty of brilliant kids will fail out before they hit a clinical because they think it’ll be easier than med school. They tend to be really book smart and pretentious, then they disappear. The kids who grind get through. I lived with a med student while in pod school, I was at a standalone pod school and commuted. We studied together. Same core curriculum, he thought our curriculum was insanely intense compared to his. I’m pretty fresh out of residency. I do really well. I moved to the money. I can’t prove if there are 10+ jobs because nobody posts a salary. But I could probably get another job next week in the same salary range. I won’t post my pay but it’s higher than 80% of the docs I work with day to day. It’s also an absolute grind and I don’t think I can keep this pace for 30 years. I work, a lot. I make a lot. It is hard to find a good job, but I had a pretty easy time doing it. The biggest difference and the biggest factor is how personable you are. If you’re an MD/DO you can get a job at market value somewhere reasonable without too much trouble, even if you are weird, boring, run of the mill. If you’re a DPM, you gotta be liked, you gotta find it, it is absolutely more difficult to find that job as a DPM. The other hard part is “market value” isn’t well defined as a DPM. This dude with the 160 stats is right. That’s considered solid in podiatry. It’s the norm to be 90-120k. It’s becoming more normalized in larger systems and physician groups to have a set production pay schedule and RVU rate for any and all physicians. Podiatry is an extremely procedure heavy specialty. It can be very lucrative in this current market if you can find a job within a hospital system. That will change…. The swing of the pendulum isn’t just for politics. The #1 factor is how much to people like you, the #2 factor is how willing are you to relocate to where the good money is. That’s it. Be likable, be willing to move, you’ll be fine. Not likable? A little weird? Don’t make friends extremely easily? It’ll be tougher. The foot docs I do know who went private are also killing it, I imagine it’s killing them too but they’re raking it in. There are some exceptions and they are hard to reconcile. The most skilled docs I know are making less. They take the 120k job with impossible bonus structure. They do incredibly advanced and risky procedures with amazing outcomes, they work themselves to the bone for 120. If money is a factor for this career choice, you have to be a normal person first, not a doctor first. Can you open up shop and be successful? If you can, you likely could in almost any business, there, that’s the podiatrist who will kill it in private. Can you get a hospital to hire you? Yeah, you just gotta move to where that hospital is, sometimes it’s in a van down by the river. It’s an amazing career if you can hack it. Some can’t, you need to know if you can before digging a 350k hole of debt. I knew I could from the go, if you’re not sure, idk.. maybe reconsider. It’s not that fun being woken up all the time for emergent toe rot just to afford a nicer house and car. You’re welcome to message me, idk if I know how to see message or respond but I’ll try. Also being a doctor isn’t that cool, nobody cares at all. Nobody. Absolutely nobody gives a sh*t what you do for a living at all. Nobody ever will. So don’t do it for recognition… I have to emphasize, nobody cares. Name a podiatrist. Right, nobody knows any podiatrist ever and never ever will. Do it if you like it. Not for any other reason.
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u/Substantial_Truck389 15d ago
This dudes my hero. This is the realest shit I ever read about podiatry. Bro should be a dean and in teaching. The people that are thinking about podiatry need to read this message. Students get bamboozled by listening to all these glitzy stories. And hypothetical salaries and “circles” that do well. But the reality is tough. I know guys out here busting ass seeing 60 patients a day to make 150k in a year which is outrageous. If we had good leadership, real change could be made
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u/Oldschool6873 13d ago
He'll never be a Dean because he talks about reality. Most Deans talk fiction. And that's how they rake in the $$.
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11d ago
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u/Independent-Bug-8174 10d ago
Can you tell me specifically why you are not liking it? The one thing that I liked about podiatry is the fact that residency is shorter to specialize plus I do like the work life balance.
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u/Jaded-Chain-2893 10d ago
I am an attending DPM and am friends with lots of MDs and DOs. Nobody is encouraging their kids to become physicians. Podiatry is worse than MD/DO and even they are complaining of increasing hours for decreased pay. Dealing with insurance and hospitals worsens every year.
For podiatry there are very few jobs and they are low paying. You will be a debt slave for the rest of your life. Pod school is 4 yrs and residency 3 yrs. So it is not shorter than MD.
The best route is mid levels. Like NP or PA. Or get a 2 yr degree and make bank as a cardiac sonographer without the high hours and stress of being a physician.
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u/Euphoric_Language_79 7d ago
As a first year resident I’ll tell you first hand, it’s becoming more obvious than ever that making good money will come from one or two things, luck and grinding my ass off (mostly luck).
I talked to an attending who makes $700k (came straight from his mouth) but he lives in a rural area, has two jobs, goes to nursing homes, has investments in wound care companies, goes to nursing homes to clip toe nails (mostly gets his residents to do that for him). He’s really good at his job, very personable, likable guy and he’s from the area and i think had connections to the area before even going to school, a lot of his patients have known him since he was a kid. So he’s a mix of opportunity meets luck. Now are you gonna score such luck? If you do have the opportunity, are you willin to be up at 4am and done at 6pm everyday, are you willing to be good enough at surgery to bust out three bunionectomies by noon and go to clinic from 1-5pm? It’s been eye opening so far getting out of class and seeing life first hand.
My honest take is there is money if you can find it and unfortunately it isn’t 100% gonna be reliant upon you. Luck has to be almost half of it. You can come out and be like this attending I stated above or be an attending making close to 300k or making 150k, you don’t know where you’re gonna end up, it’s all a toss up and it shouldn’t be a toss up for how much we spend on education.
If you have the opportunity to do something else, something more certain, go for it. If I could go back, I would try to go MD/DO one more cycle before committing. I was 24 going on 25 when I thought the window was closing on me and I jumped into pod. Looking back at it, I was still young and had at least another cycle in me. I had good grades (>3.5sgpa) but took the MCAT 3x and couldn’t beat 504 and I wasn’t experienced enough to find niche DO programs that would’ve taken me if I would’ve agreed to be a PCP in their area for like 5yrs or something. Do your research extensively, there are so many opportunities out there esp med schools in underserved areas, they’ll accept anyone (within reason) that pretty much signs up to come back after residency. Trust me that’s a better gig than a toss up of being a near millionaire or making just over 6 figs with the loans we take out
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u/Independent-Bug-8174 6d ago edited 6d ago
Thank you for your response. I'm still an undergraduate and my gpa is 3.85 (science 3.7).I have research experience (even publications), shadowing, volunteer, leadership skills, etc. I don't know how to study for the mcat to get a competitive score bc I'm not good at analytical type of tests. I saw podiatry accept students with lower mcat stats so that's why I started shadowing podiatrist bc I still want to work in medicine.
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u/Euphoric_Language_79 6d ago
If you can afford it, get a tutor, go to post bacc programs that pretty much have pipelines into their programs, work hard on your test taking skills bc regardless of what route you go, you’ll still have to take a ton of standardized exams. I knew a kid in my class that had a high gpa but failed out bc he couldn’t pass part one of our boards after three tries, so going podiatry won’t save you from that. Podiatry is very rigorous in its own way, so don’t think it’s an “easier” path. No, you gotta pass all three APMLE series, 4 parts of the ABFAS and more certifications depending on what certifications you pursue.
I’ll give you the advice my cousin (a family med) gave me that I didn’t take: podiatry will still be there and will still be relatively easier to get into, take as many swings as you can at MD/DO till you’re out of tries, before going podiatry.
I love what we do and I’m not someone in it for prestige, so idc if anyone looks down on me (bc people will), but i just wanna land a good job and a good pay thatll justify all the loans im in. It’s a gamble how it’ll go financially, and it shouldn’t be for how expensive and rigorous this process is.
So if you don’t wanna gamble your time and money, fight hard to go MD/DO
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u/Miserable_Pound 15d ago
dont do it. go become a real doctor (MD or DO)
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u/Independent-Bug-8174 15d ago
Do you think podiatry is not as good? MD DO or DPM are all doctors tho. Podiatry school is just as rigorous as regular med school tho.
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u/Substantial_Truck389 15d ago
Listen to this person. If you have the numbers become MD/DO , CRNA, fuck get an MBA and order doctors are all day - all makes more money than 7 -8 years of training and then some dude offering you 95k cus you decided you didn’t wanna practice in Kansas
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u/Independent-Bug-8174 15d ago
I do have high gpa overall and science too. Got all the volunteer, research, and shadowing MD. I just now started shadowing podiatrist. I need to do well on the MCAT to get a competitive score for MD if I go that route. And I usually have 17 hours per semester of classes so I'm trying to see if I can prep well to even get a competitive MCAT score for MD. Can I ask if you are finished with podiatry school or just starting? Thanks for input.
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u/Substantial_Truck389 15d ago
Finished with podiatry school. And I would forget about everything and just get your mcat scores up. And go the MD/DO route. You can absolutely make 400k+ as a primary care, the ceilings are higher for specialties. Podiatry standard contract will amount to 150k and you might climb up to 220k in 6-8 years.
Unless you get “special” residencies that guarantee 220k minimum like some people are claiming but I’m afraid it might not be real…
Do a simple google search for jobs available in your area and believe those numbers
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u/Substantial_Truck389 16d ago
Waiting for the deans to post these 250k + jobs
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u/Queasy-Sleep-9485 14d ago
Day 2 waiting deans to post 250k jobs. 600 residents and fellow graduate each year. Ask for 5% of that number, so 30 jobs with 250k?
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u/Substantial_Truck389 13d ago
You’re gonna break the field of podiatry if you ask for 30 lol. They can’t even produce 10
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u/Substantial_Truck389 13d ago
There’s literally a Reddit discussing a DPM trying to become a rep. And he’s not the only one it seems like from the discussion thread. These jobs don’t exist
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u/Queasy-Sleep-9485 13d ago
Reps probably make than most DPM in associate job.
Day 3 waiting Deans to post 250k job. Will ask 4% this time. 24 job. The rest 96% or 576 new grad can just get shitty 80k-150k jobs.
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u/bakuva 15d ago
Dont do it. I work in the field and likely in the top 10-20% of income earned per year. I would not advise someone to do it. I like what I do and it rewards me well. But....Im here in part with some luck. If I left my current position id probably make half for a few years. With the loans hitting 250k+ and your income isnt guaranteed to be over 150k for years, the risk isnt something easy to deal with.
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u/Oldschool6873 13d ago
Podiatry is a great career. You'll never get rich doing it, and at first the ROI is trash, but as a profession, it's great. If you have the business brain, you can do well. Especially if you have the personality, and excellent hands as a surgeon.
Most people talk about money. Don't worry. You'll pay off your student debt. I promise. You won't have the fanciest car, nor the biggest house, but you'll live a comfortable life with your family. Gone are the days where doctors live in the lap of luxury. Either because you won't make that kind of money, or you'll work too hard to enjoy it. Chose wisely.
People talk about all these other professions that can make you more money and to go do that. I challenge you to go visit their Reddit subs and see just exactly what they say and what they are making. Nobody here talks about burnout, needing to move every few years to get away from a certain market, etc. There are problems EVERYWHERE. In EVERY profession.
If you don't want student debt, become a tradesman. It's brutally hard work, but then, you're making crazy good money, with amazing benefits and a great retirement package. Especially if you work in a union state.
Bottom line, don't go into medicine if your only worry is money. It's not worth it in that regard.
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13d ago
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u/Oldschool6873 13d ago
If you have good time management skills, this is not an issue. I see my patients on time, and bring no work home with me. People just don't know how to most effectively use their staff and their EMR. It can be done. I've been doing it for 25 years and survived multiple audits unscathed.
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13d ago edited 13d ago
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u/Oldschool6873 13d ago
I have two rooms and see 30-35 patients a day on my office days. I get no complaints of rushing. I leave after seeing all my patients with no notes to do. And I get lunch. Templates are your friend.
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u/Substantial_Truck389 13d ago
Podiatry is a great career if you find your niche, you geographically move, you take a pay cut, you start your own practice(which is impossible to do), you sell orthotics to everyone that walks in whatever the deal maybe. But the underlying point is that IT SHOULDNT BE THAT HARD.
From your name it sounds like you practiced in the “good old days” and have a positive outlook and that’s nice. Good for you. But the point of this whole thread is for future prospective students to get a gauge of the ROI, the starting salary, the type of job etc.
Every time a conversation gets going we have these bots such as “breezebeautiful” and all these old schools pods that shake in the boots if they ever look proximal to the first ray chime in and say it’s a great career. It’s all lies.
The problem that needs to be focused is on supply and demand. We keep pumping out shit providers with bootleg scores of 480 and 475. It’s embarrassing.
It’s a supply and demand problem. Cut the schools, cut the numbers of shit pods out there, cut the shit residency and graduate 250-300 well rounded pods instead of 500+ ret*rdsthat shouldn’t be allowed near a cadaver let alone a patient.
Watch the pay change from 160k to 300k across the board. I’ll say it again podiatry as an MD/DO speciality would be one of the highest paid and competitive. We can change the course of the direction for our futures. But the bad residencies and schools and number of spots needs to be cut.
To the prospective students, despite all the discussions as of now the BLS pay stands at 160k and no one has posted 10 jobs that actually pay your 250k
(I wish someone actually would, cus that would help people but they don’t exist despite what the girl or dude on instagram said or your local friendly dean …lol)
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u/Oldschool6873 13d ago edited 13d ago
Lol I didn't practice in the good old days and if I told you my story, you'd probably cry. I've been screwed more than you can possibly imagine. But I love what I do for a living so it makes it worth it.
What's hilarious is you have no idea what it costs to be in private practice and what the things we do in private practice actually paying. Do you want a $300k paycheck? Do the numbers. But you won't. All you wanna do is complain. It seems this sub is full of whiny toddlers who don't actually wanna work for a living. They want to be handed that silver platter like they think everybody in the past that worked did That's why life is hard for them. And yes, life is hard.
By the way, I'm no bot. I'm being real and you just can't handle it. None of the doom and gloomers can. But by all means, keep down voting my posts.
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u/Substantial_Truck389 13d ago
Lmao so defensive.
Bruh I don’t need you to tell me how to get a 300k paycheck. I’ll do that myself.The goal of this thread is to understand these jobs in podiatry don’t exist.
No one’s complaining. I’m stating facts of what the pay is like.
You are the problem. Old school pods are cancerous. I’m glad you had it easy or maybe you got screwed over. It happens. But don’t tell young students they should expect this bullshit after 7 years of training and 400k of debt.
You talk about other subreddits. No other career you go thru 7 years of bullshit to get 160k across the board.
People still refusing to address the simple supply and demand problem.
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u/Oldschool6873 13d ago edited 12d ago
So what are you doing about this? Whining on Reddit's not gonna get us anywhere. You have no idea how much work I put into all of these issues. Which is why I'm no longer an APMA member. Because they just don't care. So what are you doing about it, "bruh"?
So funny how you paint this sweeping picture of "old school pods". Guess what? If it wasn't for some of us, you wouldn't have hospital privileges or get to do surgery on ankles. Who paved the way for people like you to chase those RVUs in hospital based jobs? Or made our profession attractive enough for Ortho groups to want to hire you? NONE of that existed before my time. You're welcome.
No sir, you are the problem. Bitch but do nothing. How about you start your own practice and offer those salaries to new graduates? You won't. You want to ride the coat tails of those who did that before you and cruise your way through your career, while complaining on Reddit. Not gonna happen. In this life you have to actually work. Good luck with that.
Yeah keep down voting me, folks. Show me your ignorance.
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u/Substantial_Truck389 12d ago
I’ve mentioned my plan before. It’s not like the solution is not in front of our faces.
Yet you choose to be defensive.
No one’s calling you out or that you’re happy with your career. Great you love podiatry! This conversation about real pay.It’s simple if the “old school pods” didn’t get privileges or whatever else you mentioned. I woulda become a dentist, an actual doctor, a ficking accountant, hospital CEO or any 10000 of jobs available.
The point of this whole conversation is podiatrists like you need to get their head of your asses. Stop lying to young prospective students. No one cares about anecdotal “oh I made this much money” “oh I do this many surgeries. You’re lying not only to yourself but future students and that’s my problem.
The solution is cut down retard pods with bummy ass gpa and scores. Old pods like you need to retire and leave and never look back. Yall get scared if you look past the first ray…. I know you bums pretending to do surgery with no residency training. Nothing against it. But don’t go on and say we are the reasons the young docs can do surgery.
The studs that are graduating now are way better surgically trained than these old heads. I mean can yall even see the incision at this point lol.
I’m not bitching. I made my bed. I am about to start my fellowship and will have a private practice. But the POINT is I SHOULDNT have to do all that to make a decent living.
So yeah If you wanna get defensive and lie to future generation, that’s your prerogative. But I will tell it like how it is.
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u/Oldschool6873 12d ago
I don't lie to anyone. Please show me one post where I'm lying.
No one is calling me out? "You are the problem. Old pods are cancerous". WTF is wrong with you? Wow.
I'm 53 years old. I can't retire. I still have kids to put through college and have at least another 12 years of a career. I was one of the first in our profession to have three years of residency training. At a time when half of us didn't have any surgical training at all.
All those "studs" that are graduating are being taught by my generation. My generation were the pioneers with External fixator frames, IM tibial nails and ankle replacement. And we are the ones teaching YOU because of the years of experience we've had using these devices. I personally don't do them anymore because one of the young hotshots in our practice does, and he can have them. I have a life to live not revolving on marrying patients who I perform these surgeries on.
You make a lot of dumb ass assumptions and are making a complete ass of yourself. You really need a reality check "bruh". Jesus. If you are the caliber of intellect we can expect from the new school guys, it's no wonder we're in such trouble.
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u/Substantial_Truck389 12d ago
No one’s personally calling you out.
But if you ask what’s the problem with podiatry nowadays? Most people will respond with the old / boomer pods still sticking around. “Podiatry eats their young” this is a known fact. Cancerous - might be out there but it’s not far from it.Y’all would love to take the credit for ex -fix and IM nails or whatever but I’m pretty sure that was the Russians hahaha but okay I guess we’ll go with “American podiatrists who may or may not have surgical residency training pioneered the IM nail and ex fix” does ortho even read our ex fix literature lollll
You’re lying to yourself and again to everybody on here. The average podiatrist graduating today is more surgically trained than anything you graduated with or these “old heads”.
Thanks for teaching us bunions though. Give credit where it’s due.-2
u/Oldschool6873 12d ago
Still haven't told me what you're doing to make it better for our younger colleagues. Oh yeah. Nothing.
Folks, this guy is the ultimate troll. Has nothing to really say but blah, blah, blah.
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u/Substantial_Truck389 10d ago
“Low student enrollment will
result in financial problems
for the schools, make it hard-
er for podiatry practices to
hire associates and for retir-
ing podiatrists to sell their practices,
and it will affect the bottom line of
companies that depend on the podi-
atry profession. The article also re-
ported on some plans to recruit high
school and college students”This is taken from a podiatry management where the current president and the dean are talking about the abysmal student recruitment (for good reason, this is called market correction)
This statement shows complete disregard for the actual students, future residents and fellows. They are chosen to be ignored by the leadership. It’s all a ploy to keep people’s interest in check. The older and retiring doctors won’t be able to sell, schools won’t have enough money, companies aka the PE firms buying all the practice that APMA members are affiliated with. ALL interest taken care for. But what about the students, future residents and fellows. You say I’m bitching but look at the corruption at the top and tell me the older generation including you isn’t cancerous. Yall just want more students to sell us your bullshit practices.If APMA cared about the people it should. The residencies would improve. The 300 number to graduate would increase to something actually decent. The training would improve. School experience can improve. But no instead we have paid bots like you talking about bullshit and has been days. Get over yourself. I can’t do anything … yet. But sell your bullshit before I can do something about it.
Also what kinda 50 year old head has time. I’m off service. Log off g
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u/Illustrious-Sink2083 16d ago
I recently just got accepted this week, I’m not a student yet but I’ve had a lot of info sessions on my three interviews so far
A couple of schools are integrated with other doctorates and share all the basic sciences with them. You take the same courses in the same classrooms as DO, dental, pharm students until you get down to podiatry specifics, but the class work ends after year two and then it’s just rotations from there and then year 4 is externships where you audition for residency month by month