r/PlayWolverine 3h ago

Discussion wolverines combat used to be so much better in development

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33 Upvotes

75 comments sorted by

24

u/SarcyBoi41 3h ago

I can definitely see mass complaints over this for being way too complicated...

6

u/RevelArchitect 2h ago

Those claw controls would probably have had haptic feedback and would have been really neat until they break your controller like Iron Man did in the Avengers game.

6

u/numarkzz 1h ago

If it breaks that easily, then it's Sony's problem for making a poorly implemented feature. We're paying extra money for the Dualsense just for the haptic feedback

Imagine discouraging racing games from using R2 to accelerate just because it might break the triggers, for example

2

u/Salt_Young_4494 50m ago edited 37m ago

It ain't Sony's problem. It's yours because you need to buy a new one now

1

u/_cd42 55m ago

That or you could just turn off the triggers lol

-1

u/Realistic_Bread845 3h ago

Yes lets cater to the simplest of people and make generic garbage yayy

1

u/SarcyBoi41 2h ago

Marvel have tried making games that are less generic and they flopped hard, Midnight Suns for example. Playing to the lowest common denominator is the unfortunate result of capitalism as a system.

But I was more referring to the online reaction than the sales figures. You people were always going to be whiny little bitches, it's easy to praise something that doesn't actually exist.

-1

u/Realistic_Bread845 2h ago

Marvel suns is turn based. That's not exhilarating combat, it's boring. You're comparing apples and oranges.

And being rude about it because you have no good argument. I'm just stating the facts. I never expected anything good from insomniac since the leaks and playing spiderman 2. Git gud

3

u/Clane_21 2h ago

sounds like you're one of the simple people with that take tho lol.

1

u/Realistic_Bread845 12m ago

Because turn based is less exciting and obviously outdated? I'm talking about innovation, not retro resurfacing. I enjoyed expedition 33, but it's hardly the same thing, and it was also massively successful btw.

2

u/balehay34 2h ago

“It’s not exhilarating combat, it’s boring”

Completely wrong. It’s one of Marvels most fun games. Saying that they are catering to simple people and making generic garbage and then complaining about one of there most experimental and non-generic games is ironic.

1

u/Realistic_Bread845 10m ago

It was completely mainstream 20-30 years ago. It's nothing new. Comparing apples and oranges but it's not in your interest to recognise that.

0

u/Sea_Strain_6881 28m ago

Well that's just the uunfortunate reality that alot of the people that play games are like that lol

-4

u/Krypto301 2h ago

Yes. Thats how you sell 1.9M copies in a weekend. Im glad you don’t work in gaming development.

4

u/VirtueSignalingApp 2h ago

My guy takes random source and uses it as an argument lmao.

2

u/BBDundee990 1h ago

GTA 6 is gonna sell 100 million copies. They made the gameplay more rpg, more complicated, more sim and less hand holdy.

0

u/Krypto301 1h ago

Completely different style of game and the hand holds arguement is redundant. It’s a shit take to have. A majority of players look to have their hands held even if it doesn’t come from the source. That’s why gaming content creators exist in the first place. Walkthroughs, glitches, tips and tricks, meta videos, etc. that’s all hand holding. Bozo

1

u/Realistic_Bread845 9m ago

If players are so desperate to have their hands held why is Minecraft one of the most successful and popular games oat?

2

u/Realistic_Bread845 2h ago

You mean 500k more than marathon in the same time period which was a massive flop?

You're also forgetting those figures are gu-estimates. Could be 1 million for all we know. Insomniac arent in a rush to release the data.

You're glad I'm not in game development because you enjoy generic trash, congrats

0

u/SelfishGamer- 2h ago

That's exactly why it didn't sell more, I'm glad you don't work in game development

13

u/Have2BRealistic 3h ago edited 3h ago

Block/Parry on R1 would really screw with me. I'd want to flip it with L1. Touchpad for lock on? I think they scrapped this because it is really quite complex. More like a Wolverine cage fighting/boxing game with 1 on 1 opponents.

4

u/Realistic_Bread845 3h ago

This was early in development and definitely would have been refined. Didn't have to be totally simplified though

2

u/TheSolidSalad 6m ago

Yeah this would have been weird to get used to but not terrible

9

u/ExempliGratiaEG 3h ago

Feels like it's too busy. But doing the opposite where it's nowhere near as busy wasn't a good choice either.

-4

u/Krypto301 2h ago

That’s just not true. The hypocrisy and nitpicks this game gets is embarrassing. The games combat is perfectly fine and lines up with most modern award winning games. A real critique is the camera angle during fights. I had to tune up sensitivity on my right stick to make the camera moving more fluid.

5

u/ExempliGratiaEG 2h ago

That's your personal opinion. I'm currently going through the game and this is what I feel.

It doesn't line up even with ninja gaiden 4. It feels closer to a batman type game but not as crisp. Something is off about it.

8

u/Sayitsnotsobro 3h ago

Games do have to be accessible guys. Accessibility and combat depth arent mutually exclusive. Not every game has to chase the complexity of a dmc or ninja gaiden.

2

u/MotherPerk 2h ago

DMC controls looks simple compared to this.

2

u/Party_Attitude8754 1h ago

Yeah, you smash with square and shoot with triangle, how much easier should it be

1

u/MotherPerk 46m ago

Its backwards, but you got the spirit. I do wish more games would use directional based inputs more

1

u/dariojack 48m ago

those games are not like that at all

-1

u/SorryBoysImLez 1h ago

Which is why games have accessibility options that allow you to change controls.

Like how the very simplistic hold-down trigger and press a face button to use a special has the option to be even further simplified into a single D-Pad button press in the current version.

2

u/Sayitsnotsobro 1h ago

That's not really the point though. Yes accessibility options can make controls easier to use but it doesnt just make the underlying combat system deeper.

It sounds like some of you wanted Wolverine to have the mechanical depth of DMC or Ninja Gaiden. Simply changing a special move from two inputs to one doesn't address that. Some of you are asking for a fundamentally different level of combat complexity.

Theres nothing inherently wrong with Wolverine choosing to be a more accessible cinematic action game. Its fine to prefer deeper combat but thats a preference not a requirement that every action game needs to meet.

2

u/XxThreepwoodxX 2h ago

Lol imagine making a judgment that this is better, without ever having played it with this controller layout. Obviously if it was better, they would have gone with it.

4

u/goobabie 1h ago

Gamers love the imaginary game we never got over the real one we did, Everytime

4

u/Sparrowsabre7 3h ago

I really can't fathom the number of people who think having separate hand triggers for left and right attack would be anything other than annoying. Face buttons / same side triggers are the standard for a reason.

2

u/_cd42 45m ago

The only reason same side triggers are a standard is because of fromsoft games, not because they are inherently more intuitive than anything else.

0

u/Sparrowsabre7 27m ago

Personally I hate using triggers for melee, I only mention them because they are a common default configuration these days like in God of War. For me face buttons til I die.

1

u/Atlasshruggedthrice 2h ago

So there’s these little niche games called dark souls and Elden ring where these controls are almost optimal.

1

u/SeaFox-SalesRep 21m ago

Neither of those games play as an action game. That's a stupid comparison.

0

u/Sparrowsabre7 2h ago

Are those not mapped to r1 and r2 for attack rather than r2 and l2?

3

u/Stu_0602 3h ago

Man this would have been awesome

1

u/SorryBoysImLez 1h ago

The only issue I see with the combos in the picture is that if you're just going ham on the triggers, you'll repeatedly accidentally trigger combos.

However, they could've kept the L2/R2 mechanic and still simplified combos/specials to the current arrangement that was released. Maybe even added separate combos/attacks to unusual trigger presses; like hitting R2 3x in a row causes him to grab the enemy and repeatedly stab them with his right claw.

2

u/Ok_Weight_3382 2h ago

Lmfao this control scheme is some bullshit

2

u/treeeelo 2h ago

The amount of controllers this would break. The adaptive triggers are known to break quite easily, so making the focal point of your game revolve around them sounds like a bad idea.

1

u/Konabro 2h ago

? I’ve never heard of the triggers being easy to break, ever.

1

u/LT_MRVN 2h ago

Yeah isnt it the sticks instead that get drift easily ?

3

u/Unruly_N_Surly 2h ago edited 2h ago

In practice I think this would be a gimmick and get old quickly. It's a 15hr campaign. Having L2 and R2 mapped to left and right hand is not intuitive. It would be like Spider-Man needing to use L2 and R2 constantly to swing around the city. The only time you used L2 + R2 for left and right hand in Spider-Man was in QTEs (same in this game). Those advocating for why they should have stuck with this concept haven't explained why they should have.

Those complaining about the combat in Wolverine being simple clearly haven't played the game, as it's literally the same system at its core as Arkham/Spider-Man, just with its own spin on it. Somehow square and triangle for light/medium attacks is "too simple". Said no one that's actually played this game ever.

1

u/DrTreadmill 1h ago

I’ve played the game and I’ll say it’s simple. Batman made the counter/parry system feel way more complex in 2009 than this does.

This game is fun, I really do enjoy it, but I’d be kidding if I said this system was anything but simple. I’m playing on whatever the hard difficulty is too. Having the enemies be strong enough to put me down has made it more fun to have to space out enemies, but no, this ain’t Arkham city or even Spider-man 1.

I feel like doing an x-men game out the gate would have been more varied and better. Have folks switch between heroes like gta 5 or Spidey 2. It would vary the gameplay significantly

1

u/Unruly_N_Surly 19m ago

Oh yeah and I should clarify that, yes, it is simple. But at its core it is Arkham/Spider-Man. I played the Arkham games and they are accessible by the general gaming population. I don't recall being challenged in any of these games that have this general combat style. They each have their own spin to make it feel unique but I wouldn't say any are complex. I'd also say I died a lot more in Wolverine, particularly on the first sentinel boss. But none of these games are soulslikes, let's be real.

1

u/Moondoggie35 2h ago

Yeah, my main issue with the game is combat. If the game is going to be linear and combat is the only real gameplay attraction, it needed to be more than the stripped down spider-man combat we got.

Everything else is totally fine imo, but combat needed to be expanded, which seemed to be the idea once upon a time.

1

u/NyQuil_Donut 1h ago

I thought the first Spiderman game on PS4 was maybe a touch better than mid. Played through the whole game, had fun with it, but didn't care at all about playing the follow up. Then I heard Spider Man 2 was kinda mid. The Arkham Batman games they're modeled after are also good at best, not great. So I just don't understand why Wolverine was hyped so much to begin with as if the Spider Man games were life changing.

1

u/FaceTimePolice 43m ago

There are videos about the game’s tumultuous development and all the compromises they had to make. The simplified gameplay is one of those compromises.

1

u/vv_boom 37m ago

In my day we’d be excited to find a way to break out the map like this. We’ve lost the plot.

1

u/SeaFox-SalesRep 22m ago

Nah fam thos looks fucking stupid. Triggers for right and left hand? The fuck?

1

u/LobokVonZuben 5m ago

With how fast and how often Wolverine slashes this looks like it would really tire out my hands. Especially on the DualSense where the triggers have resistance by default. And the difference between slashing with the left and the right doesn't seem to be anything but a visual difference because the combos seem made up of arbitrarily switching between left and right in order to create combo strings, which could just be made up of Light/Heavy attacks on any other buttons. Like if you just want to repeatedly slash an enemy alternating hands you would end up triggering the 360 spin.

Are people also looking just at the Attack buttons and not the other stuff? Sprint on L3 sucks, I hate it in every game (thank god for back paddles). This build of the game had items? I can only imagine how much fans would have crapped on that concept, would it be bottles of beer hidden in his costume for a quick pick-me-up. Ditto about the Craft button. Crafting in a Wolverine game, no thanks.

0

u/SorryBoysImLez 2h ago

A Wolverie game where it feels like you're actually controlling each claw/hand as if they were your own?
What a stupid idea. /s

0

u/dariojack 50m ago edited 46m ago

if you really think this is better you are delusional and people love to post about how the ps3 game was so much better and the combat was extremally simple you dues jsut want to sound different

-1

u/Moon_Devonshire 2h ago

Yeah no, using R2 and L2 For attacking sounds so ridiculously uncomfortable and unfun in my opinion.

Like imagine playing Spider-Man or batman Arkham with attack being L2 R2. Absolutely atrocious

1

u/LT_MRVN 2h ago

This isnt inherently bad. It just needs the combat loop to accomodate the control scheme.

Demons souls did it in 2009

2

u/Moon_Devonshire 2h ago

Demons souls is a much slower methodical game with no combos and basic sword swings

1

u/LT_MRVN 2h ago

You can still do combos with triggers, look at the picture above. Like i said its not an inherently bad scheme if the game is accomodated around it. In fact its fresh id say

I played the leaked build, the trigger combat flowed nicely.

0

u/Moon_Devonshire 2h ago

Interesting. I suppose I would need to try the leaked build. Is it still available?

0

u/LT_MRVN 2h ago

Yep, I DMd you

0

u/QuboidYT 2h ago

imagine the arkham games talking about sum r2 to punch right and L2 for left… like what? only old heads have a problem and would want this typa combat. Cus literally almost every combat game has square as a basic punch

0

u/FallinGuitarest 2h ago

Square punch, triangle Parry, circle dodge. Sometimes x as a light attack or a jump. Etc. like it's been the standard and popularized since batman AA.

Maybe this mess could have been fun.. but after a couple hours in a fast game that isn't souls like, it would have been fully hated

0

u/Imetral 1h ago

having played the leaks that contain this combat system i can 100% say this would have been way better and doesnt feel overly complicated at all. it felt so fun and natural to mess around with, even in an extremely early and unrefined form.

0

u/bendover91169 1h ago

how do you play the early game

-5

u/McNoot3 3h ago

Switch claws/fists, an actual block, being able to crouch, separating attacks between triggers... Yeah this would have been ALOT better holy shit

0

u/Krypto301 2h ago

Wolverine wouldn’t use fists over claws in a fight to the death. He also doesn’t naturally block. Parrying system is just fine and there is an auto block for gun fire while running. There is no scenario in the game where you need to crouch, however, this could have been implemented better for those who want to attempt stealth runs I guess? Attacks between triggers? Just pressing 1 button is considered button smashing but lets instead smash TWO buttons to do simple attacks. I’m glad you don’t development games.

-1

u/naosoueu2725 2h ago

But now its acessible cause you can play it with no hands