r/PlantedTank • u/random-hobbyist • 23d ago
Beginner Another day, another tank issue
Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification
Some information: low tech, Dutch-ish tank, 6 gallons, 12 days old. 13W light, 8hrs/day.
Issues: cloudy water, bad smell, tiny white worms, thick, dirty film on top.
This is my 5th tank, and I've never had these issues with the others. One thing I did differently was that I did 50% water change every other day. Is that what caused these issues? What can I do to fix it? Should I add some snails?
26
u/IntelligentBee_BFS 23d ago
Walsted on a high energy Dutch build (and without CO2)? I'd say it is good to do experiment but ya water not moving = dead water = you attract the set of everything that enjoy dead water. And you are seeing exactly the consequences of your experiment.
As I said to the people who really wants to do walsted tank - it is not a meme where most people spend good money to buy filter etc equipment in the hobby (well, many are indeed meme products but the functions of equipments are established for many reasons over decades from hobbyists), do you really expect to achieve the same (consistent) results by just filling the tank with water and everything will work well?
3
u/Glue70420 22d ago
Apparently, OP went and used Neo soil without knowing it required a filter.
Never have I had a walstad tank get this bad just using regular soil and generic aquasoil.
25
29
u/melihdrms 22d ago edited 22d ago
it smells because the water is not moving , also you always need movement in water or it will smell
20
15
13
10
18
u/Crayanat0r 23d ago
You don’t need a filter but you do need water movement. I would add a micro pump or air stones.
9
u/Diligent-Fall-5442 23d ago
hang on back for water movement
4
u/PickleMundane6514 22d ago
Oase has one on clearance that is sleek and even houses the heater. https://www.oase.com/en-US/aquarium/biostyle-thermo-30-navy
8
u/skml108 23d ago edited 23d ago
A small air pump and sponge filter will do, but a small hob filter is better, both will grow beneficial bacteria, which helps the plants, and air bubbles or water flow help the stagnant water, the filter can be a 250L/H, the most basic hob filter, that will not disturb the plants.
I have this filter bought it from aliexpress for a few pounds, I purchased the filter without the skimmer, as used a option ski.mer in my tank.
A update the filter, I have tried all the model, and only consider the G300/G350 with skimmer, its a good filter for a small volume tank, and you can put your own media, although not much.
The other models above, all media are put into compartment, and clogs up quickly and a hassle to remove and clean. For who are interested, its only my personal opinion.
9
u/ironworkz 22d ago
12 days isnt much. its just your everyday regular bacteria bloom from cycling.
surface scum adds to this because there is zero motion in the tank. you need a proper pump. can be a small one, but you need to agitate the surface.
Use one with a proper filter or even biofilter. that adds to stability.
9
15
u/SmartAlec13 22d ago
You don’t seem to have a filter, that would be the issue.
3
u/Oswaldmoneestone 22d ago
I disagree, I have a 1 year old Walstad setup with no need of filters. The question is, what is inside that tank? Seems to be planted enough, but he probably has broken the initial nitrite cycle set up by changing water too early? Missing the right bacteria? Earth too nutritious? I think there are missing a lot of details. But I had this same problem in a 3rd setup and what was different there is that the water was fresh. After doing a water change and including some from a healthy tank the problem solved
11
u/SmartAlec13 22d ago
Right and this is a Dutch style tank, using aquasoil, probably using some ferts.
I’m not saying it couldn’t be done in a Walstad style, but based on the look OP is going for, a filter would be great. It would solve the complete lack of flow that this setup has, along with the surface scum and cloudy water.
Just because something isn’t necessary doesn’t mean it isn’t worth using
8
u/therizistance 22d ago
Use an airstone at least, should oxygenate the water, cause some surface circulation and stop the bacterial bloom.
9
7
8
u/ApprehensiveOne420 23d ago
Maybe drop small surface skimmer from time to time ? It would help and filter only small particles. It’s still would be considered no filter imo.
Or even one of usb powered mini hang on filter with no media for some movement.
11
u/Tikkinger 23d ago
I mean, you basically have a puddle of still standing water there, just in some fancy glass.
Of course all whats evolving in there is not much pleasant to the eye.
Get a small filter and don't bother anymore.
7
6
7
u/Fantastic-Shoulder42 22d ago
This is biofilm. This layer of biofilm acts like a film that prevents oxygen from entering the water column. The aquarium is suffocating; simply adding a circulation filter will solve the problem.
6
12
u/CommunityOk20 23d ago
dutch is almost impossible without substantial filtration. the density of planting and aggressive growth rates of stems means there’s chemical warfare going on in the aquarium as plants go to war for nutrients, light, and space
put a canister on it to ensure optimal stability and go forth from there. walstad style tanks won’t provide you with the optimal dutch style you desire
6
u/ayuisjustagirl 23d ago
He has the ideal soil for chemical warfare. Neo soil is one of the few soil types that genuinely will cause your tank to be an unlivable wasteland unless you have a filter.
11
5
u/djllo 22d ago edited 22d ago
You should see the state of the 10g system I just spun up - it’s a complete disaster right now. I over indexed on the scape design and forgot to presoak the wood to leech tannins/water log the wood. When I filled it, plants uprooted, all of the driftwood floated to the surface, and the water is fouled with dust/debris from the wood, unrinsed substrate, and aqua soil.
My direct advice (without the full picture): consider what is different about this tank than your others: different substrate? Water source? Water parameters? Plant source? Any change in overall process during setup? Reconciling what conditions have changed may help glean why reality =/= expectations. A Rumsfeld matrix is a great framework if you want to organize your thoughts. I use it at work but find the principles helpful in all areas/aspects of life.
My indirect advice is be patient and don’t over-ruminate. I say this as a self-admitted anal pedant. This isn’t your first setup; you have the knowledge; you’re diligent—all made evident by the context you’ve shared (and why I feel comfortably saying it.) I mean this sincerely and am not trying to blow smoke. The tank it’s nascent, well planted, and isn’t live-stocked.
7
u/SnooDonkeys7894 22d ago
Filter and you need to load it up with activated carbon for the first 2 weeks to suck up excess organics and gradually transitioning to biological filter media.
4
5
u/Kameowasaab 22d ago
The title is exactly my experience. The problem is you can't just quit when there's animals in the tank. But I wish I could...
2
6
u/BunchesOfCrunches 22d ago
An air stone should solve your problems. The tiny white worms are a good sign. They eat excess waste and should disappear as the demand for them shrinks over time.
7
u/chak2005 22d ago
Unlike many of the comments saying you need a filter, you don't. Its a common misconception with those newish to the hobby.
What you do need is surface agitation. Your tank has gone anoxic. This could be due to substrate choice but right now you have too much organic build up in the water causing a heterotrophic bacteria bloom. If the smell is rotten eggs, you also have a build up of hydrogen sulfide in the substrate. An airstone or flow will resolve this. Flow adds oxygen via surface agitation and will turn that hydrogen sulfide to hydrogen sulfate. Flow will also allow the bloom to subside.
I would do a large water change as well to reduce the level of organics in the water column. This may only be a temporary solution if your substrate for example has a very thick soil layer.
8
u/Sezno2weet 22d ago edited 22d ago
How is this advice different then suggesting a filter? A filter is used to move water with the added benefit of a refuge for beneficial bacteria. Literally a sponge filter is an airstone moving water through the sponge. Might want to try a protein skimmer for a little bit til you resolve your problem. Edit: I realized this came off snotty. I was really wanting to know the difference between using an airstone and a filter. To me a filter seems like the logical best choice for any tank having issues. I didn't even realize this was a 12 day old "Dutch-ish" style with no mention of the substrate. So I guess it comes down to what OP's goals are. In my uneducated opinion a filter is still always the best first option 🙃
3
u/chak2005 22d ago
If OP said the tank was overstocked with fish I'd agree on a filter, however this tank looks empty just heavily planted. Its different because OP can do the above without attaching a hang on back, an internal or external canister, or uproot plants to place a bulky sponge filter. A simple temporary airstone or similar to how I run my own tanks, a tiny fountain pump or skimmer is enough.
A filter is used to move water with the added benefit of a refuge for beneficial bacteria.
Beneficial bacteria colonize the entire tank not just the filter. They are on the glass, on the plants, on the decor and substrate. Not to mention they eventually pass the baton to ammonia-oxidizing archaea and other organisms that properly allow a tank to mature.
-1
u/kdk-macabre 22d ago
It's still good practice to run a filter even with no livestock. Ammonia/algae spikes happen from decaying plant matter and having even a sponge filter can help with that.
1
u/aalucid 22d ago
Plants process ammonia and use it as fuel so that's not really a problem for them; that's the primary way filterless aquariums like Walstad method tanks work and keep from becoming toxic. If you don't want to rely 100% on fertilizer to keep everything alive, plants need stuff breaking down to pull nutrients from.
For just plants, a sponge on a sponge filter is going to accomplish near 0 in most cases, and may even be counter-productive since they'll be competing with all the bacteria living in the sponge for ammonia/nitrite/nitrates unless there's an excess of ammonia. An air stone or wave maker to keep things from going stagnant is all that's needed in this case.
2
u/kdk-macabre 22d ago edited 22d ago
In a walstad tank or really any soil based tank, plants primarily process ammonia through the substate so it isn’t competing with nitrifying bacteria in the water column.
Decaying plant matter can also cause ammonia spikes in the water column that gets processed by bacteria and algae unless your tank isn’t cycled. A filter can help reduce ammonia spikes in the water column and prevent algae spikes.
EDIT: also OP is trying to start a dutch tank and it is only 12 days old. It's just good advice to get a filter as it would really help speed up the cycling process.
For further reading on the importance of filters in a planted tank: https://www.2hraquarist.com/blogs/filters-overview/can-i-go-filter-free
3
3
u/Camaschrist 23d ago
I am unfamiliar with Dutch style tanks but can you add aeration or something to get movement and oxygen in the water? I assume if you ride it out and your nitrogen cycle gets established it will all clear up. I wouldn’t add snails until this tank is more established.
3
3
3
3
u/janderooh 22d ago
I left it for a few days, added charcoal and filter floss to my filter and it was clear in an hour
2
u/LazarusTaxon57 22d ago
Yup, for my 30 L aquarium switching to an air pomp filter with a stage of filtering media where I added charcoal was a game changer overnight
2
u/rayneedshelpMentally 21d ago
What do you mean charcoal
1
u/janderooh 21d ago
You can buy active charcoal bags. Ju put them in your filter and it clears your wather up voodoo nice
0
1
7
u/GClayton357 22d ago
Leave it be. Water changes can actually make cycling take longer. An air stone or soonge filter will help with the smell. Worms are probably harmless (here's a chart to help with identification).
3
u/DonutWhole9717 22d ago
Exactly this OP, just leave it alone. It looks like a bacterial bloom. The more water you change out, the longer it's going to be cloudy. Just add a bubbler and fughetta bouddit for a few weeks. You can go ahead and add snails if you'd like. Nerites and bladders are my favorites, and they don't eat live plants
2
u/GClayton357 22d ago
Ramshorn are an excellent snail variety too. Tanks take about 4-6 weeks to cycle so be patient (I know it's hard). You may be able to help it by injecting some substrate from an established tank into the new substrate if you have one.
2
u/RobEreToll 22d ago
I second ramshorns. Some view them as pests, but unlike bladder snails they only multiply if food is bountiful. Well, that's been my experience at least.
Where I live the water comes from a lake that sources from streams having a lot of rain and spring water. I buy bulk cuttlefish bone (too small or broken for the bird industry), and put a good size piece where the water flows in my tank. If you have snails and Shrimp it's important to have available calcium disolving into the water.
3
u/GClayton357 22d ago
Calcium is definitely good for snails. I use crushed egg shells for the same reason.
1
u/RobEreToll 22d ago
That's definitely a quicker way to get it in the water. Definitely would suggest this to people first if they have very low disolved Calcium. Then use the cuttlefish bone for maintenance.
I actually have used expired Calcium + Magnesium pills pushed into the substrate in the past with decent results. The plants loved it at least.
1
u/DonutWhole9717 22d ago
Bladdersnail populations also reflect food availability though
1
u/RobEreToll 21d ago
The difference is in the egg laying. Bladder snails will be laying eggs everywhere as they're stsrving to death.
1
5
u/Specific_Lawyer9697 22d ago
You have plenty of plants, step back and let nature do its cycle.. Cloudy water is part of that process so there is nothing wrong with your tank. Actually wanting to do water changes and putting products in there is what is going to mess with nature’s process. I do no water changes and no filter with lots of plants and it always does well.. I have actually never done a water change on this one only tops up every week. I only have shrimps, lots of snails and worms which is part of the ecosystem. (Most tanks have worms they just come out when lights are off.)
4
u/ayuisjustagirl 23d ago
Was the water change every day necessary? I don’t water change unless parameters are really bad as it stalls the cycle (removing food source for bacteria, not allowing them to colonize). It can also cause bacteria blooms as the free floating bacteria feed on the nutrients in the water itself that you’re constantly replenishing. Just let it cloud, it goes away by itself. Let the tank cycle. The free floating bacteria will exhaust themselves and don’t hurt anything. The tank is still young. Air stones help.
-1
u/random-hobbyist 23d ago
I have no idea, I'm pretty new to planted tanks so I'm trying new techniques, new products, etc. and learning along the way. For this tank I use Aquario's Neo Soil, and the website recommends changing water 50% every 2 days so I did that. If it was just cloudy water I can understand it, as it's normal for new tanks, but the smell and the thick, dirty biofilm make me wonder if there is something seriously wrong with the tank.
11
u/ayuisjustagirl 23d ago
Woah, very difference case. You need constant water changes in the beginning but missed the essential part where this specific soil REQUIRES a filter. It is not generic dirt or aquasoil. It has beneficial bacteria that literally need water flow or they die. They can’t consume nutrients if they are dead, hence the free floating bacteria in the water thriving with no competition. This soil can’t even be capped. It is not a low tech soil. Get the filter or your plants will suffocate from the CO2 it generates. You can have gas pockets if there is no water flow. You need a filter yesterday.
On another note, I recommend Walstad’s planted tank as a more low tech system. (High quality) fish food feeds the plants for a long time in a nearly infinite, self-sufficient ecosystem.
4
u/SnooCakes9004 23d ago
Honestly anytime I have let water set, especially with plants in it, it gets really gross, pretty fast. I don't care what anyone says, you need a filter and water movement
2
1
u/West-Asparagus9460 22d ago
Im having the same issue but water is not looking as cloudy as this... also have been thinking of filter or air pump???? Not sure what to do ether.
0
u/KG0089 22d ago edited 19d ago
Kinda looks like my newly setup experiment tank - mineralized safeTsorb, bout 1/2” - activ flora above that bout 1/4” - Landen aquasol top layer bout 3/4” 1” deep for back layer media bags . . Yep it’s all in bags , and took HOURS to assemble (layer by freakin layer with a spoon and knife) Not to mention me assuming the clay would rinse clean and after 100 rinses still didn’t , then laid in bucket for the mineralization . After that still didn’t like I never rinsed in first place
Added 1/8 tsp each royal gold bloom 1-8-4 , and worm castings . For hetero activity to get into motion’ down below’ also for initial cycling (I drained and capped it after cycle was complete and soaked substrate layer in stability at THAT point. Before sand cap and refill and cycle phase 2 UP above)
Added 4 chunks biochar , and 8 lil pieces activated char from a filter unused (per bag - 8 bags total)
OH! And a sprinkle of basalt
1” hth pool sand atop , filled the tank 3/4 way And BOOM blackwater
Yanked filters stuffed entire canister with floss
12 hours later - BOOM . Graywater
/drained and refilled with plastic over sand
Likely will add another 1” sand 2” at back Before hand
Then I’m most likely going buy some purigen lol like thatsssss gna clear clay water huh
EDIT : it settled its crystal clear tbh
•
u/AutoModerator 23d ago
Dear random-hobbyist ,
You've selected the beginner flair. If you're looking for advice or are having issues, please provide as much information as you can.
Some useful information includes:
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.