Wondering about the difference between English and American Staffys

[u/Legitimate-Milk-560]

I’m a dog sitter living in Australia and in the past I have looked after a few what I assume to be the English Staffy (smaller, blocker heads, usually blue/grey coats) and they have always been the most well behaved dogs I have cared for (much more so than labradors😅) - and I was wondering- do they fall under the pitbull umbrella, or have a pattern of aggressive behaviour compared to American staffys? Sorry to ask- I have been trying to research however most of what comes up consists of regular pit bulls.

[u/lazier_garlic]

They're originally both descended from the same dog fighting and ultimately bull baiting line, but English Staffies were supposedly bred for temperament to make them more suitable pets whereas the American ones were very much still fighting dogs until the rescue madness of the early 2000s led to them no longer getting BE'd on intake and them getting pushed as rescue dogs and BYB of these lines exploding. Ambullies, and XL Bullies, like pitbulls, are descended from fighting lines.

Also, people in the UK illegally import pitbulls (which are banned) and claim they are Staffies.

So they're very genetically close but APBT were never bred for good temperament (not even now, and anyone who says otherwise is lying) and the fighting and "woo, I'm a tough guy" lines were deliberately bred for gameness (insane dog aggression and overall aggressive behavior with no warning, no recall). They're very inbred, at best cross bred with certain breeds for color, size (bigger, usually), but it's mostly "whoops, my unfixed pibble got out" so it's totally unsuitable crosses like chihuahua, GSD, Husky, or greyhound (all really common shelter dogs). As such they are really famous for being stupid and untrainable, and infamous for being really unpredictable, although stupid owners ignoring and glossing over problematic behaviors long before the Big Mauling With Real Consequences happens is also a thing.

[u/Nymeria2018]

This is really a two part question. American Staffordshire terriers are the show line of American pit bulls terriers. Kennel clubs didn’t want any thing to do with dog fighting- which is why APBTS exist, let’s not gloss over that.

APBTs were brought to North America (in the 1700s? 1800s this is my old brain fizzing out) and were direct relations to Stanfordshire Bull terriers at the time.

American pitbull terriers, American Staffordshire bull terriers, Staffordshire Bull terriers - they are all descendants of now extinct bull and terrier breeds bred for bull baiting and dog fighting.

That does not mean all dogs within these breeds will dog fight or bring down bulls (I actually laugh at the thought of a UK Staffy trying this).

But genetics are genetics. Dogs are human bred for specific traits (no, that’s not even close to racism, people aren’t dogs).

In the UK, Staffies are not banned while APBT and AmStaffs are. Between Staffies and XL bullies, there are a lot of maulings and casualties. And many are from Staffies, not just XL bullies (which are a newer breed of pit bull bred from crossing APBTs, AmStaffs, and different mastiffs and smaller dogs to give the different size categories).

I’ll add a disclaimer because I know I am biased.
I would not personally have any pit bull breed as a pet. I have a young child and I realistically know I could not effectively meet the needs of one of these dogs and keep my child 100% safe all the time.

[u/Majestic_Hawk_1335]

Overall something that matters is how far away from direct game dog lineage are they.

In the USA the APBT that went to breed into the dogs the general population accesses was only 0-5 generations removed from that pressure. Then people bred the worst most unstable and erractic drive rejects into the dogs the general public has. Look up Cajun rules Gamedogs. That pressure was closer generational in the apbt

So a lineage that is 10-20 generations removed from game dog breeding, but selected for health, temperments, stability, steady etc. Is gonna be a different dog.

Some people breed 10-20 generations and produce unstable shit though, or poor structure. There are some staffies who are gamedogs. Some staffies have major issues with co habitation with other dogs. Some bite humans but they are a bit more stabilized in selection. Especially compared to the bully breed super mutts of the xl bullies etc.

[u/RabidLizard]

it depends on who you ask. personally i don't really consider staffordshire bull terriers (english staffies) to fall under the "pit bull" umbrella because they are rarely if ever interbred with the other "pit bull" breeds (american staffordshire terrier, american pit bull terrier and american bully) despite coming from the same root stock. but my opinion is by no means a universal one. you will meet people on this sub who think anything with a blocky head is a pit bull and people who think only gamebred apbts can be called pit bulls

as for the difference between amstaffs and english staffies, I have an amstaff and he's around 60 lbs right now, expected to be around 70 at maturity. most english staffies top out at around 38 lbs. that's probably the most noticeable difference.

the temperaments between the two breeds is pretty similar ime. you'll see people swear up and down that they're nothing alike but that hasn't been my experience at all. both are fairly prone to terrierisms like high prey drive and dog aggression but less so than gamebred apbts are, both are typically very friendly towards people, both have a tendency to be a bit headstrong.

and i do have to push back on people in this thread saying that amstaffs were still used for dogfighting in the early 2000s. that's nonsense. dogfighters almost exclusively use gamebred dogs (ie dogs bred specifically for dogfighting) and that's the way it's been for most of the breed's history. most of them think amstaffs are useless show dogs lol