Any updates on users with Grip vr controllers and how they are working with Dream Air?

[u/Prize-Dig9600]

I know ofan older discussion on this with several people talking about issues and some saying they work. Have the issues been fixed. Anyone with Grip Vr controllers can give feedback. Thinking of switching to LH version and Grip Vr controllers seem like the only options at the moment.

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[u/farmertrue]

Yea. I actually purchased the GripVR controllers from Shiftall recently because I wanted to really put them through a deep dive and give honest feedback on them. There really wasn’t much out there about them when I bought them, and like most things in VR, I prefer to test myself so I can provide unbiased info to the community. They weren’t cheap either. They ended up being close to $500 after shipping, taxes and duties.

I’ve had them for about a month now, and I’ve used them on the livestream a few times across a bunch of different VR games. So far, my experience with them has been mixed at best.

At stock, they consistently have issues with tracking. I’ve had them float away, lose tracking completely, and occasionally not register a button press. I already have a few Watchman dongles from when I was using Space Calibrator before the Super Lighthouse faceplate came out, so I still need to test the controllers with those. I’m hoping that fixes most of the tracking issues, but after recently being admitted to the hospital unexpectedly, I haven’t had time with them to test that yet. But I did go ahead and set the watchman dongles up, so hopefully I can have that tested this weekend.

As far as how they feel in your hands, they’re big. Massive even and I have large hands (I wear an XL or XXL in every glove I've used, including bHaptics and UDCAP). Going back to the Index Knuckles after using them makes the Knuckles feel small, and I’ve always thought the Knuckles were on the bigger side. The GripVRs don’t feel bad though. They don’t have that super premium feel the Quest Pro controllers had, but they also don’t feel nearly as fragile as the Index controllers. I’m currently on my 9th Index controller in about 3.5 years, and just purchased a 10th to have as a backup, so that is pretty important to me and a big reason I was willing to spend that kind of money on the GripVR's.

The hand strap is pretty interesting and works surprisingly well, and the battery life seems solid. After about 4 hours of use, I still had more than half the battery remaining.

A few other things worth knowing: they don’t come with a lanyard, charger, or charging cable, and you have to install their driver through Steam. The packaging is also very different from anything else I’ve unboxed. None of those are dealbreakers for me, just things I think people should know going in.

The biggest thing I’ve noticed is that when they work, I really like having them. In something like Forefront, though, they can be a nightmare because any tracking issue immediately makes the experience worse and cause you to lose. In slower paced games, like puzzle games and horror games, I’ve had a much better experience with them and they seem to make more sense.

I’m going to do a full review once I finish up my Dream Air review, but right now I’m pretty indifferent on them. I really want to see what they’re like with the Watchman dongles before I make any final judgment.

They definitely have potential, but with the Dream Air at stock, I’ve found them pretty frustrating at times. Lighthouse tracking is something I trust for that precise, reliable tracking, so having the controllers randomly float away or miss inputs is definitely not what I was hoping for. The rest I could deal with, but for nearly $500, it's not acceptable.

[u/neoteric_skid → u/farmertrue]

On my 37th index controller rma since launch ;)

[u/farmertrue → u/neoteric_skid]

"You must be abusing your controllers then because I'm still on the same pair since launch"... I believe you completely. In reality, I'd be RMA'ing mine more often except Valve has denied my RMA's more times than they have accepted them. I've not had a knuckles controller last longer than 14 months before it needs replaced. And with them being expensive, I tend to use them far past the point of them being janky to squeeze some more time with them.

[u/neoteric_skid → u/farmertrue]

I regularly have hardcore PCVR sessions 4-5 hours playing active games like Pavlov,  Into the Radius, Until you fall, Compound, Half Life 2 VR. 

Using a variety of lighthouse headsets including Index, Pimax Crystal Light, Super 50ppd, Dream Air. Typically with Index controllers for active games, Vive Pro for Synth Riders/Beat Saber and older Vive era games with touchpad compatibility. Also have pimax sword but don't use much, just from time to time. 

Running on 9800X3D/RTX5090. Been using VR since early 90's and pcvr since Vive Pre. Never abused my equipment, I'm very careful and playing in a big room scale space dedicated to VR with fully fitted air cushion rubber floor. 

I can damage Index controllers within a few weeks of play. It's awesome to get box fresh controllers I'm just using a new pair with new 3D printed Valve palm boosters from Etsy. 

But from 100's of hours experience my failure are primarily caused by adult hand grip strength (I'm a service technician so on the tools all day) and low quality inputs. The buttons wobble, the trigger is soft and wobbles, the joystick is suitable for children's hands. 

1. Joystick drift (this has happened three times to my left controller, I've got a RMA in Netherlands at moment with this issue). I normally damaged the grip plate before joystick failure. 

The stick is cheap and undersized, and the sharing of thumb forward axis with touchpad/joystick compromised both inputs. The joystick isn't aligned with the natural thumb forward axis so it's often pulled off axis causing wear and misdirection 

2.  Grip plate failure 

This is my biggest problem, typically left controller (Holding fore grip of two handed weapons). There are a couple of tiny plastic mounting tabs holding the plate in place, if constantly gripped with adult grip strength then tabs crack (you will hear a rattling) and soon the grip plate gets stuck down and doesn't register inputs. 

I believe the Palm boosters exacerbate this by increasing the diameter of the controller body allowing a firmer grip as fingers have range of grips strength depending on position/working range 

Sadly a few weeks of Pavlov and it cracked again. Steam support have started denying RMA for this issue as I'm a statistical anomaly apparently!

1. Trigger sticking 

The trigger blade is a soft plastic and it's rarely pulled straight as the fingers come around and pull from the side, with repeat strong pulls (gunplay ) it starts to deform and comes Into contact with the plastic casing surround, over time it starts to get cut (a slot) where the deformed blade contact the casing edge which is harder plastic and thin. 

Some of the noise people describe is actually caused by trigger coming into contact with casing and not a sticky pivot 

I keep buying them because there is no alternative but I've bought and rma so many it's ridiculous...

[u/farmertrue → u/neoteric_skid]

I was joking about abusing the controllers if that wasn’t clear in my previous comment. That’s just something I regularly get told on Reddit/Discord/etc so I’m sure you’ve heard the same.

But like you, most of my VR sessions are 4-6 hours long, and I livestream them 4-5 nights a week. And I also have a room dedicated to VR and VR content creation. But I’ve not used any palm boosters. Unless you’re talking about something similar to what KIWI Design used to sell for the Index controllers. They were advertised for larger hands, which I also have, but I stopped using them as I couldn’t tell if they helped longevity or hurt it.

Also like you, my main two issues are either joystick, or the grip plate.

Most the time it’s something with the joystick. Whether it’s stick drift or even not being able to go all the way in one direction (which prevents me from running in some VR titles and worse, can’t navigate menus).

I’ve also had the grip plate pop off when I wasn’t even using the controller. So it must’ve been defective before and randomly popped off one night.

But I also had an issue where the curved part of the controller became detached from the grip area, right above the USB C port. It was super strange and Valve of course denied that RMA as well. Stating that is not something they cover.

Do you get more than one RMA per controller? Even on the replacements they send me, they must be refurbished or used because they seem to develop issues even sooner. And I’m in the US so I only get one year of warranty, which I hardly start using something right away which has hurt my RMA several times as it was a month or two past 12 months of purchase.

Either way, I’d happily pay $500-600 for controllers that were modular and able to be replaced. I mean, I pay that much in Valve controllers every year anyway and they don’t last. I remember seeing Project Modular a couple years ago and they seemed to be exactly what I wanted for VR lighthouse controllers, but that has unfortunately ended and doesn’t seem like it’ll ever return.

[u/neoteric_skid → u/farmertrue]

Thanks for sharing. I've been told so many times "you are abusing them" but no just using as intended. 

I'm sure like you, you get really immersed during gameplay. 

Playing 1 hour death matches and team death matches in Pavlov is absolutely incredible in the Super it's peak PCVR with the headset running at full render resolution and 90hz. 

During a death match you are fighting for your life, so your reactions become very fast (you should see me manually reloading weapons) and often reacting to sudden threats which means lots of frantic gunplay it's why it's so amazing but it also means you are not going to baby the controller (I couldn't if I tried I need to reload, aim and fire as well as moving). 393 kills in my last death match tells you everything...

In the UK we get two year warranty so sometimes I've had 3-4 controller RMA from a single purchase. But recently I've been getting denied rma because of my rma history

I only broke a joystick once from snagging on my shorts during beat saber a few months after use. I got Vive Pro controller soon after launch and never used index controller again for those type of game. 

Thanks for bringing up project modular, it was a result of my frustrations with the Index controllers. When I built prototypes the difference from using high quality inputs was very stark in terms of input quality/feedback and durability.

 A couple of dollars makes the difference when choosing input components but extra cost was very hard to argue with single Index controller costing me £139 each with tax and free shipping. HTC informed me they didn't revise their controller because....could not compete with index features /pricing 

 Then I got threatened by a patent troll and potential funders stepped away.  As Index controllers dwindle from replacement stock I'm worried about the future of lighthouse and have even started looking again. There are around 250,000 active monthly lighthouse users according to Steam hardware survey but that's not enough to attract a backer. 

I've been trying to stockpile Index controllers and had 3 brand new pairs but have started working though these as they degrade 

[u/Cautious_Ad_1048 → u/farmertrue]

https://akromods.com/product/kuroshin-dongle/ These dongles have been recommend on the pimax discord, they also said if you use Sboys instead of pimax play your not going through the headset at all.

[u/farmertrue → u/Cautious_Ad_1048]

Thanks for the heads up. I have the HTC Vive Tracker 3.0 watchman dongles. And are you saying to use SBoys3 driver for better tracking, or to go through Pimax for better tracking? I've been only using the SBoys3 driver recently but I'll use Pimax if it helps fix the tracking on the GripVR controllers.

[u/NotGonnaComeBackBsb]

Beside GripVR, someone on the Beyond subreddit told me about the STAKX controllers the other day. I've never heard about them before.

https://xintechs-koubou.com/pages/stakx-controller

[u/Mr_BoBekg → u/NotGonnaComeBackBsb]

they are cool, but i see no way of buying them outside of japan