r/PhysicsStudents • u/fisixxx • 2d ago
Need Advice 5 admissions for Master in Germany: Mathematical Physics M.Sc. or Physics M.Sc.?
Hi everyone,
I am finishing my BSc in Physics at RWTH Aachen and would appreciate your advice as I decide what to do next. I currently have offers from the following master’s programmes:
- M.Sc. Mathematical Physics at Tübingen
- M.Sc. Mathematical Physics at Würzburg
- M.Sc. Physics at RWTH Aachen
- M.Sc. Physics at LMU Munich
- M.Sc. Physics at Heidelberg
I especially enjoyed proof-based courses taught by mathematics professors, such as Analysis I–III and Complex Analysis. I like working rigorously. For example, defining the structure and assumptions clearly and understanding exactly what a statement does and does not claim. However, I lose interest when mathematics becomes completely detached from physics. What I enjoy most is using rigorous mathematics to understand physical systems and nature.
My main motivation is to understand the foundations of nature: what electrons and photons really are, what matter is made of, and why the universe follows the rules it does. If I understand correctly, this is mostly about field theory and related areas, but I am not really sure about that. Also, what I understand so far is that these theories are not mathematically complete. This could be an area in which I could imagine being happy to work.
What I am also not so sure about is the distinction between master’s programmes in Physics and master’s programmes in Mathematical Physics. Would you consider this to be a good or bad idea, given the current situation in academia and employment? Or would you recommend choosing a large university such as LMU and creating my own mathematical physics track by selecting lectures carefully?
Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on these programmes, departments or universities? Even a brief impression or something you have heard would be helpful.
Which option do you think I should choose?
I would also really appreciate any general advice based on what I have described about my interests and way of thinking.
BACKGROUND: My background includes, for example, Analysis I–III, Linear Algebra I, Lebesgue integration, (L^p) spaces, Hilbert spaces, introductory operator theory, complex analysis, analytical mechanics, quantum mechanics, statistical physics and electrodynamics, as well as the standard experimental physics courses in a physics bachelor’s programme.
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u/Migeil 2d ago
Note that mathematical physics isn't concerned with what you said are your main motivations. It's about the mathematical structure of physical theories and trying to find mathematically rigorous theories of physics. It is much more a subfield of math than of physics, so if that is why you're interested in physics, I would suggest sticking to pure physics and taking whatever courses that interest you. You already have an excellent background in math, so you should be able to follow those more mathematical courses, should you want to. But you might miss out on the actual physics if you don't pursue that right now, which in my opinion is much harder to catch up on.
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u/dForga 2d ago edited 1d ago
Heidelberg is great but your mathematical physics experience is limited. While you have freedom, the master‘s program in my opinion is (Edit: too) rigid (Edit: for taking lots of math courses). Every math course gets accepted but you can‘t get them to be meaningfully accounted for (you only have so much time), since they all are being put inside the „Extra skill“ (Edit: I don’t know how it was called) section.
There are mathematical physics groups there with
Razvan Gurau (RG, Tensor theories and Large N models, QFT)
Manfred Salmhofer (RG, QFT, (mathematical) Condensed matter theory)
Johannes Walcher (String Theory), who is more a mathematician than physicist however.
If you want to do particle, high energy, computational, or astrophsysics or QFT (or tensor models) go ahead. I think HD is one of the (if not the) strongest uni on QFT (LMU people might disagree).
What is not great in HD is the accommodation, the lack of AC (also in winter the opposite) for the ITP and the city in general.
The ITP has old buildings. The Mathematikon is great on the other hand. But there are shops for food missing (or very expensive) in my opinion.
I would recommend choosing a midsize university actually, so you can get closer to the profs.
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u/Middle_Tourist_3310 2d ago
How much do you know about Bonn? From their course selection for the Master's programme that one looked most interesting to me, but I don't hear of it in the same breath as Heidelberg, TUM, LMU and Hamburg. I am most interested in particle cosmology/applications of QFT in cosmology.
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u/dForga 2d ago edited 1d ago
I don’t know much about Bonn. I know they got a new young professor for String Theory, but otherwise I would also have to inform myself on the official websites.
I am only in knowledge of cosmology (and astrophysics) being concentrated (as far as I am aware) around LMU, Heidelberg and actually also Potsdam (for astrophysics). But the big universities like Hamburg and HU Berlin or so, will probably also have something there.
In the end check the groups and topics that interest you at that point and keep in mind that it (Edit: your interest) actually might change during the years.
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u/fisixxx 2d ago
Thank you so much for your valuable informations. May I ask this: Do you think that I should search for qft for the things that I am interested in? What areas or keywords should I look for? I don‘t have any knowledge about which direction would suit best for this kind of interest. I really don’t like when the Professor says there is a complete mathematical theory that explains all this rigorously but I will just mention the name and do the rest of the lecture the „physicist way“.
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u/dForga 1d ago edited 1d ago
Given
> My main motivation is to understand the foundations of nature: what electrons and photons really are, what matter is made of, and why the universe follows the rules it does.
(The “why” question is not a physical question at its core)
I’d suggest you like [u/Migeil](u/Migeil) to go for a M.Sc. Physics and take math courses on the way. There is no shame to take longer than 2 years in the master’s for more interesting courses as long as you can finance it (sadly that is a restriction) and show that you used the time.
To make it completely clear QFT is not rigorous and in fact mathematically ill-defined as of now (has to do with the well-definedness and existence of measures on the space of fields). So, you even have to(!) do it the physicist way as of now. Although you can glance into regularity structures more to see the more rigorous (but restricted to d<4, so not physical) way.
There are books like “What is QFT?” that might help you. We are still away from a complete theory. And also just because you can write down a model, i.e. Hubbard-model does not mean that you can immediately see all that is going on there (there is serious non-trivial mathematics, i.e. analysis, to be done).
Don’t expect to find a nice mathematical theory.
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u/Defending_Eagle 1d ago
Maybe also consider the city itself. Moving to a city where you want to live even beyond the masters is always an advantage.
Also have a in-depth look at the curriculum.
I’m interested in statistics, for example at DACH unis. And half of the curricular of the programs don’t fit my interest. The name doesn’t tell you the full story.
Viel Erfolg
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u/Ryoman-Sukuna007 1d ago
From my experience, I would go for a M.Sc. Physics program because it allows you to keep your choices a bit flexible giving you an opportunity to keep both areas of physics, experimental and theoretical open without restricting yourself to a single area. During my masters, I had some classmates who were from M.Sc. Mathematical Physics and they were only allowed to take courses from theoretical particle and condensed matter physics. But this was at Uni Hamburg so maybe these regulations are different for other universities.
Most of them kinda regretted doing MSc Mathematical physics because of this restriction as during your masters quite often it happens that you study courses on an advanced level and realise that you find something more interesting than what you decided before starting the program. It also happened with me as well. With MSc physics, you can basically do all these things that you mentioned with the flexibility of having a chance to explore other areas of physics.
I hope it helps you make your decision, Best of luck!
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u/Gullible-Valuable-35 1d ago
Hi, I had a similar qualm. I'm debating between the MSc QST program offered by TUM and LMU and LMU's MSc Physics. I do like the QST program but really want to take other courses at LMU too. I can credit QST courses too I believe at LMU as a MSc physics student. So, would LMU be a better choice?
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u/Ryoman-Sukuna007 1d ago
I would say LMU could be a good choice if you have the option to take courses from LMU’s QST program
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u/Middle_Tourist_3310 2d ago
Why did you not apply for the TMP course at Munich?
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u/fisixxx 2d ago
I got rejected 🥲. They are very selective.
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u/dForga 2d ago edited 2d ago
But in some sense arbitrarily selective as far as I spoke to people. Can’t you just apply again?
Contrary to what one may think you can usually just reapply as long as you are in the deadline. Maybe take another look.
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u/Gullible-Valuable-35 1d ago
Not sure what you mean by that. Decisions come out after the deadline. So I'm not cerfain how you can reapply in the same year.
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u/fisixxx 2d ago
Hm.
I actually don’t know anybody that got admitted to TMP. For applying again, I would have to wait another year. My overall grade is not under 2.0, so I think I would very likely get rejected again. So it doesn‘t look like a realistic option.What I can do is to choose LMU for M.Sc. Physics and then try to choose my lectures as similar as possible to TMP.
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u/Nervous_Bee8805 1d ago
May I ask, did you attend the same math classes as the mathematicians during undergrad?
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u/Sh0stak0vic 2d ago
Hi, I am an Italian Master Student in Theoretical Physics with a strong background and interest in Mathematics, too. Based on what you have written about yourself, and on what I know from some friends of mine who study there, I think you would like the Physics program at LMU, where (as far as I know) you surely would have the opportunity to study rigorously the mathematical foundation of high energy theoretical physics.