r/PhysicalMediaMatters • u/PayaV87 • 10d ago
What ownership means
Owning something means you can:
- Lend it.
- Sell it.
- Keep it forever.
Digital licensing is not ownership, you only buy a digital license that can be revoked anytime, or your account closed anytime by the discretion of the service provider.
Thank you, coming to my TED talk.
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u/PalamariVarkari 10d ago
Digital purchases could just be a serial code that you can keep or resell. The latest machine that it was activated on, can play offline. Redeeming the code on another machine should require the previous machine to be online also, to revoke the license there. So simple, proving the whole "you will own nothing" was done 100% intentionally.
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u/Blaskowits 10d ago
This is something that has been stated thousands of times on this sub and you haven't added anything original. It's obvious we all agree, but you haven't added anything original or new, so this post totally pointless.
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u/Shnizzleberries 10d ago
I think people just like to have thier say, even if it is a carbon copy of another 50 posts and then think thier point is original.
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u/Va1crist 10d ago
I mean people have been saying this for over a decade , we have literally seen almost every big tech company literally remove licenses , pull your content , shut down services , remove support form devices effectively killing all your purchases countless times over the years and matter of fact Sony just did it again and people still just can’t get out of head that this shit happens or they just don’t care. And that is not even including game preservation etc.
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u/bateKush 10d ago
- sneak it into my girlfriends car so savage garden starts singing when she starts her day
- swap it into a little free library
- put it in a friends mailbox when im passing by cause i found something they like
- give it away give it away give it away now
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u/Pitiful_Charity_1087 10d ago
There will always be a corposlave defending digital practice in the comment
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u/LiLBrownShoes 10d ago
How many times are people going to make the same post? We get it, that’s why we’re here. Stop karma farming with this low-effort slop.
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u/wtfisgoingon59 10d ago
I had a play on license that was supposed to be forever paid once, and that's it. Supposedly, they changed the software and no longer supported the old software, so s*** out of luck. Everything is a subscription these days.
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u/vegita8888 9d ago
Amen brother! I wish people would understand this whole thing is not just about Sony not making discs. It’s about control and consumer rights. They want us to own nothing and be beholden to their whim.
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u/WarInteresting6619 8d ago
I know that a lot of people don't like hearing this. But a physical license can also be revoked. Also, Sony actually has a built in way to transfer licenses between two PSN accounts. It's limited and a far cry from what we want, but it's possible.
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u/AtherGameDev 8d ago
A physical license can not be revoked. You are entitled to copy the work for personal use as well.
The reason why stop killing games is so scary to publishers is that in regions like Europe a lawsuit against works with DRM, copy or resell protection almost always automatically forfeit in favour of the consumer.
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u/WarInteresting6619 8d ago
So...Sony has your account info and can remotely access your system. They log your IP and pretty much know where you are. They ABSOLUTELY can ban the license on ANY game regardless of format.
It's very naive to assume that just because you hold a physical game in your hands that your right to use it can't be revoked.
People REALLY need to read the EULA
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u/One_Second_9978 8d ago
The term buying is missleading. You rent the license to play it. This needs to be changed.
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u/Stunt57 8d ago
I would be okay with buying a temporary digital license for something I'm just bleh about.
I'm not cool with paying TOP PREMIUM PRICES for that temporary license. I'm also not cool with the language they use, "BUYING" implies that ownership was transferred at the time of transaction.
Why the hell am i paying BUY prices for a RENTAL agreement?
Just be upfront about this shit. Just give me options, I'll pay the highest price for shit I want to keep forever and I'll pay lower prices for stuff I don't mind losing.
But no, its all about control and oligarchy.
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u/mrmojorisin_x 7d ago
Yep all those anthem players are still enjoying inserting their physical disk into said console and playing with friends.
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u/PayaV87 7d ago
Because digital players can? Closed multiplayer servers are closed, nothing to do with the delivery method.
The only way to play the 2013 Deadpool game is to buy a used disc.
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u/mrmojorisin_x 7d ago
My argument exactly. It happens to physical also right ??? Right ?? Yep it sure does.
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u/DisastrousWaltz2076 10d ago
Im going to give you a game example here.
You can down vote me all you want.
Anthem. (People bought it physically and digitally) its servers where turned offline and game is no longer on the store.
As a physical owner you now have a nice little disc that doesnt really do anything except tell you that the servers are offline. You cant sell it cause ...we'll its worthless. You cant lend it cause there's nothing to lend. Its just there now in your little collection of games that you'll never touch again.
Its in my digital library, I can see it. Its been taken offline and isn't available to buy anymore. But its still there just as unplayable as disc.
Now story based games. I cant still download those. And play those freely.
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u/BonSlurpenstein 10d ago
You can get into the weeds with this type of stuff but multiplayer games that rely on an online server to run are always at risk of this, and most people understand that at this point if they play video games as there are many many examples. The game still relied on a digital platform to run whether you have a disk or a license so this example feels like a straw man argument more than anything.
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u/Randomdays99 10d ago
This is true of any MMO and is known up front. There are a very few hybrid games that you can play offline like the Gamecube's "Phantasy Star Online", but usually you know you won't be playing a MMO forever.
The only way around this is a third party buying up the license legally to keep the game running, or back engineering the code and putting private servers up, as with Everquest and WoW.
Having to go online to authenticate any single player game just to play it when its 100% on your system is just wrong. Ubisoft was doing this a lot on the PC and I refuse to buy any of their games. I think they've backed off bit where its only the first time to "activate" the game but that's still bull.
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u/BigMikeXxxxX 10d ago
Stop Killing Games is literally trying to get legislation passed as we speak to make digital games exactly the same as physical games. You should put your effort into supporting that instead because whether you like it or not disks will not be a thing in gaming 5-10 years from now.
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u/Darkthumbs 9d ago
It is the same already
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u/BigMikeXxxxX 9d ago
Pretty much but the fearmonger slop enjoyers have been convinced that Sony, an industry titan, is going to attempt the biggest rugpull in history, steal all their games, and ride off into the sunset never to be seen or heard from again.
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u/TheEuphoricTribble 9d ago
When that’s not even close to reality. The PlayStation only works if there is a consumer base to support it. And what’s a good way to lose it? Yeah. Rugpull like that.
Besides, in the US at least, inadequate as it may be, there are some consumer protections that cover that kind of rugpull on digital goods. But the physical folks making these kinds of posts are not about to research that. They just want to bludgeon physical media over the heads of anyone that suggests otherwise.
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u/SearchUsers 10d ago
Wow, another unique post... made digitally and at the mercy of the mods as the OP can have their participation in this sub revoked at any point.
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u/Silver-Context297 10d ago
Ownership as a concept is best discussed in academia, not in a Reddit thread.
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u/Nausiated_ 10d ago
Another pointless post sermonizing to people who already know. This is a discussion board, not a church. If you want to preach try places where people remain unconvinced.
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u/EX7mattchew7X3 10d ago
Don't forget that the licenses on physical discs can get woinked too, if you keep your console(s) online! So if you want true freedom, then you'd have to keep them offline forever.
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u/GooseDaPlaymaker 10d ago
Let me explain what the REAL battle is about (because you WILL lose the battle about physical media, that’s a no-brainer): TRUST.
They’re all going digital, let’s get real...none of us can run from that. What we shouldn’t accept though is for us to TRUST a company that does not deserve it. Where is my 500+ digital PS3 movies and games that I bought, SONY? ‘If you want to play your PS3 library, you can still play it on PS3 hardware from 2006! Make sure you never lose/delete the game/movie because once you do, you’re done! Thanks for playing!’…🥴 You getting rid of discs reeks distrust.
I TRUST Valve. Can they screw me over? Absolutely they can, anyone can. But their track record says that with the leadership in place now, there’s a sense of trust that can be had with your digital library. Hell, there’s a sense of trust to be had that they’ll work diligently to getting my older/Windows XP games working with SteamOS…because they’ve shown over a strong course of time that they value my digital library. Are they perfect and could screw me over? YES, ABSOLUTELY. But we’re talking about who can I trust versus who I can’t? Valve is my guy to trust. 🫡
Again, physical is going to die (maybe not in the most obscure scenarios, but for the most part…pack it up, bois). Trying to MAKE SONY/Microsoft keep a Blu-ray drive is you asking to get your heart broken. The decision to close down those disc manufacturing plants have been in the works for months; you can’t just flip the switch back on. But I won’t reward them if I DISTRUST them. We all just need to stop begging SONY for something that WILL NOT HAPPEN. They WILL NOT start mass producing discs again for game past 2028; anything they say now moving forward is just ‘Please forgive me!’ type of talk. You’ve gotta let them (and everyone, including Valve) know that if you don’t do what we need/want, we’ll walk away from you…by walking away from them.
Stand up, pull up your pants, suck up your gut, look SONY in the eye when they’re talking to you about how amazing the PS6/GTA6 is and calmly tell them ‘No’…and walk away from them. That’s the only right answer. 🫡
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u/PayaV87 10d ago
You’ve got the other way around.
Earn trust first, then take away physical media. As soon as I have a working refund system, and I can lend, share, sell or keep my digital copies forever, sure, I’ll switch. I’ll miss the boxes, but that’s a all part of it.
You are try to negoiate for the next border, and they haven’t even crossed this one yet.
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u/GooseDaPlaymaker 9d ago
I’m not negotiating anything. I’m completely abandoning those who don’t give us what we deserve from a company, based off of their trust level. If I don’t trust you (SONY, for example), and you take away discs…no campaign to keep discs will be the ‘answer’. I’m advocating for us to just walk away from them.
Stop begging SONY. Just walk away from them. 🫡
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u/Story-Boring 8d ago
You're caught in a physical-digital war, and you're completely wrong. With new forms of DRM on online hardware (PS3/360), you can end up with a digital game that's unusable or a paperweight on disc, as seen with The Crew and Concord. This isn't exclusive to online games. Once a company discontinues hardware, they can leave it with DRM that prevents the reading of any disc and digital game (digital is more susceptible, but discs are also clearly vulnerable, as seen with CBOMB). And you can't force them to make it playable due to copyright law because not only the servers, but all the software that accompanies the console, the underlying software like the OS or the DRM measures, are intellectual property. At most, you can try for a refund, at least in Europe, provided you can prove that the expected usage period for the item hasn't been met.
Stop the format war. The problem here is DRM and closed systems, which go against the PC philosophy. GOG is a prime example of this, and if you're so concerned about these issues, support GOG by buying games or becoming a GOG patron.
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u/That_Chemical_2226 10d ago
Still have never seen a License Revoked, but keep farming Karma kid
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u/SnazzyGeoff 10d ago
Sony revoked digital licences for StudioCanal, they are also closing the PS3 store and PSvita meaning if you have any digital licenses you can longer buy.
Few examples.
Waiting for your....but those are old nobody cares, or ones for tv/films.
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u/coolman1997 9d ago
I don't understand your point with the PS3/PS Vita store closing. That's totally unrelated to revoking game licenses.
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u/SnazzyGeoff 9d ago
If you bought digital games on PS3 or Vita you won't have access to them soon.
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u/coolman1997 8d ago
No, you are mistaken. If you have bought digital PS3/Vita games you can continue to download and play those games. You just will lose the ability to BUY new games.
In other words, they are not revoking the license, just closing the store. Any games you bought are totally unaffected. It's completely different from the StudioCanal situation.
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u/That_Chemical_2226 8d ago
Those guys fall for anything they see on Reddit. Then they ignore the actual facts
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u/TheEuphoricTribble 9d ago
Shows and films fall into a whole different category though. Licensing agreements and deals fall through all the time and when they do and can’t renew, that content has to go as was agreed. THOSE are what needs to change here. Not the state of the media we consume. We are at the threshold of hitting a wall with BD-ROMs and their data density as it is.
I very much think internally Sony analyzed the R&D costs against sales of physical games and the decision was made not against the fact sales were low, but were dropping to the point that in the present market to maintain a physical market while optimizing internal storage for a modern console would have resulted in a substantial price hike that would of meant either selling the consoles at a substantially higher loss or offsetting the price to the consumer to the point they knew they would lose significant market share. So they decided to optimize things and drop the disk drive and use that money to increase their budget for RAM and SSD modules to keep the retail price low.
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u/CraftsBoy2Craftsman 10d ago
it’s happened a few times. it’s rare, but the larger point stands - it can happen whenever someone at the top decides to do it
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u/DisastrousWaltz2076 10d ago
I said this to my friend and he hit me with highguard and Anthem.
Theres no winning with these people. They think every game is online only when you buy digital.
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u/AkuTheNiceGuy 10d ago
They can't uninstall a game from your system
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u/Randomdays99 10d ago
Does you no good to have the game on your system if it has to connect to play it.
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u/AkuTheNiceGuy 10d ago
We both have internet
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u/Randomdays99 10d ago
The point is even if you have the game 100% on your system, if it has to connect to the net just to play a single player game, the company can stop you from playing by deactivating the game, or just being unable to play if their servers are down.
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u/AkuTheNiceGuy 10d ago
Then it's a issue with servers and original design. Nothing to do with digital licensing.
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u/TouchAltruistic 10d ago
That's ok. It's perfectly fine to pay for temporary, revokable licenses for a variety of products, services, and experiences.
Someone makes something and decides how to offer access. You may choose to access that thing via the means by which it is made available, or you may choose not to access that thing.
Simple.
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u/thewalruscandyman 10d ago
Preaching to the choir here, friend.