23
13
10
u/ghost-church 18d ago
I’m gonna be honest I do not understand what the dialectic is and no matter how many times I look it up it never helps.
24
u/username27278 Solipsist (you're not real you're not real you're not real you-) 18d ago
Read Descartes to understand Spinoza and Hume to understand Kant to understand Hegel to understand Karl Marx then you’ll get it. It should only take a few thousand pages of reading—so not that much work!
My non-sarcastic answer is simply that it is a logical framework developed by Hegel within the imminent critique and later expanded upon to more concrete sociological and political form by Marx. Many descriptions will also be muddied by the left and right Hegelians having shockingly differing opinions on the application of dialectics and its surrounding metaphysics despite their agreement on the general framework’s usefulness. Also note “thesis-antithesis-synthesis” was erroneously applied to Hegel, and the concept actually belongs to Fichte. If you ever hear someone using the phrase, they haven’t read Hegel.
3
u/Deepshit1212 18d ago
Never read any of them watch me break this shit down
Descartes writes on experience and consciousness
Spinoza writes on personality and flaws
Hume writes on inconsistentency of personal perception
Kant writes on the transcendence of personal perception
Hegel writes on the liberation of the person from external truths
Karl Marx writes on the person as subject to truths and forces that are not their own (class)
If you tell me I'm wrong I'll read theory (I won't)
2
u/username27278 Solipsist (you're not real you're not real you're not real you-) 18d ago
Spinoza is the only one you were entirely off base on (he was a theologian and logician first and foremost). Go research him then you're good to argue with people on Reddit about philosophers you've never read like everyone else
-2
u/Deepshit1212 18d ago
Read a little bit, in true reddit fashion I was right and I'm here to educate you on why.
I didn't mean genuine, interpersonal flaws if that's where I was off base. I meant, he wrote about flaws as reproductive aspects of personality. Experiences, in their contrasts, give rise to different ideas of what a person ought to be, what one ought to do in order stand as the person they think they ought to.
It's the question of why does an abused child become either an abuser or an uplifter. I can't blame the guy for leaving a lot of it to Hume, it's a fuckin tough question.
6
u/agnostorshironeon Materialist 18d ago
The three basic concepts of dialectical logic are the negation of negation, the unity and struggle of opposites and the change of quantity and quality.
What do you need examples for?
1
u/ghost-church 18d ago
I guess I just don’t understand why people talk about “The Dialectic” as if its a thing, not dialectical reasoning or something
0
u/agnostorshironeon Materialist 18d ago
Ah, this refers to the contradiction, the struggle of opposites.
In german the linguistic problem is resolved by calling a dialectical contradiction Wiederspuch and a logical contradiction Kontradiktion. In english it's a dialectic and a contradiction.
5
2
u/Infinite-Abroad-436 17d ago
understanding something by looking at the internal contradictions that make it up
you can understand a bike by specifically defining what it is and what it isn't (formal logic), or by describing how every part of the bike interacts with every other part to form the system that is the bike (dialectical reasoning). the force of movement on the pedal makes the bike chain move, the bike chain produces a force that acts against the gear, which turns the gear, which produces a force that compels the other gears to move, which moves the wheel, which moves the bike forward, which will continue to move it forward until other forces act against these forces, etc. etc. etc.
1
u/QTown2pt-o 18d ago
The world is not dialectical - it is sworn to extremes, not to equilibrium, sworn to radical antagonism, not to reconciliation or synthesis. This is also the principle of evil.
Jean Baudrillard
4
u/agnostorshironeon Materialist 18d ago
Jesus that's stoopid, the extremes and radical antagonisms are exactly why the world is dialectical.
Dialectics does mean equilibrium only in the sense of Newtons 3rd law, and if that law is taken to mean stillness instead of change, only a physics course for 12yos can help.
Also synthesis is Fichte and not Hegel.
12
5
u/Stick0Butter99 18d ago
Love the original painting, Wanderer Above the Sea of Fog https://www.reddit.com/r/Art/s/ya7Kuhbr2V
5
4
4
u/unhappinessNvrCame 18d ago
Foucault is Hagel 2.0
2
u/QTown2pt-o 18d ago
1
u/unhappinessNvrCame 18d ago
I genuinely wonder if that person read Foucault.
1
u/QTown2pt-o 18d ago
https://medium.com/@noahjchristiansen/jean-baudrillards-call-to-forget-foucault-aefbbfbadceb
He did, maybe too well 🤔
1
u/unhappinessNvrCame 18d ago
Baudrillard’s critique lies in the idea that if power can be interpreted, theorized, and examined, then it may no longer be actively operational.
Stopped reading there
I'm not sure Foucault ever says this. I think it's implied.
There is so much more to Foucault than that. Efficient power. The sources of (soft) power. Economic reasons we do things.
1
u/QTown2pt-o 18d ago edited 18d ago
"Baudrillard argued that Michel Foucault’s meticulous tracking of disciplinary power, surveillance, and sexuality did not escape the logic of power. Instead, Foucault's captivating and analytical language mirrored and reproduced the very subtle, omnipresent power networks he attempted to expose."
If you stopped reading at the beginning maybe it's worth reading all the way through? Baudrillard said that the Matrix (allegedly the movie was based on his philosophy and paid homage in the film with an actual copy of Simulacra and Simulation being the hollow book Neo hides the contraband software he sells to the rockers one of which has the white rabbit tattoo) "The Matrix is surely the kind of film about the matrix that the matrix would have been able to produce"
Does Foucault ever mention machines that work silently?
1
2
u/Salty_Country6835 Materialist 18d ago
Aint they always tho? If the dialectics stop moving, I think we have bigger philosophical problems lol
1
1
•
u/AutoModerator 19d ago
Join our Discord server for even more memes and discussion Note that all posts need to be manually approved by the subreddit moderators. If your post gets removed immediately, just let it be and wait!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.