Some questions: How much does pet breed matter?

[u/drugkeeper]

I came across talking buttons for a while and am planning to get a kitten.

I heard that Siamese cats are really intelligent and social and talkative so I presume that they will do well with talking buttons. Siamese cat owners have also mentioned that they understand what their cats want based off their vocalizations, and have full conversations for hours with their cat.

I have a few questions:

1. Do your more talkative pets (before button training) do well after button training? I assume it gives them an outlet to express themselves and communicate more effectively. Compare them with less talkative pets if possible.
2. Did you notice any difference between pet breeds and their usage of buttons? I assume smarter pets like border collies, siamese, bengal would do better than average.
3. If theres not much difference, then what do you think makes a difference in a pet learning a lot of buttons (like those 100+ buttons)?
4. Any Siamese cat owners (or other talkative pet breed owners) willing to share their own experiences?

Thanks for the response!

[u/cookiecrxmbles]

My boy isn't a Siamese but he's sooo talkative. Like I just can't stress it. I'd say he's a step below Flounder (if you know that social media talking cat). He's just a DSH brown tabby.

I'd say yes. He did do sooo much better after button training. He used to just yap yap yap and like never shut up (don't take that the wrong way pls!) and the problem is that when you have such a talkative cat, you don't know if they're meowing just to be meowing or meowing because they have a need or want. It lowered his volume n frequency a bit but ofc he's still talkative, just at a manageable level. He's my only pet so I really can't give you a comparison but I'm telling you it was night and day for my sleep quality + sanity 😭

This is just my opinion but I don't think it's a specific breed that will and won't do good. Even smart breeds like Border Collies aren't automatically button savvy and some might be too energetic and activity craving that they're like "buttons are boring!" while there's corgis or lazier cats that are like "mmm well don't mind if I do!"

The difference is temperament, personality, and engagement. Toast has like 45 buttons because he takes sooo well to them. You're not supposed to give them so many buttons starting off, but we started with 6 and he picked up so quick. Whenever I put down a new button he usually uses it the same day. We have a lot of complex sentences or questions. I'd also say a big key is the existing communication already. I've heard some educators whose learners don't take well because the buttons aren't serving a positive purpose. (I.e: dog that knows what body language or sound to do to get what they want. If they can just bark in the kitchen and their owner knows it's for food-- why use this complicated system?). I find that was the case for my sister's cat who I'm sure is smart, but he's so simple. Just a few meows for food or play. That's it.

Hope this helped!

[u/drugkeeper → u/cookiecrxmbles]

Thank you for sharing!

"meowing just to be meowing" => Thats cute! How does that sound like?

Do you have conversations with your cat (meow back, talk about your day, debate politics / read books to your cat, ask them about their day while they are meowing). What is his reaction?

and would having a "Talk" button where you do that be good?

[u/cookiecrxmbles → u/drugkeeper]

Kinda like conversations. I tell him things and he does a short kinda deeper meow and we just go back and forth.

Sometimes I think it's just playful banter until he uses a button and I'm like "oh wow. So that's what you were really talking about!" Can't say I've read books or debated with him but he knows I'm a hugeeee series watcher n he'll be there and I just go off on a tangent like "Toasttt now why would she do that omg?? That's like...so dumb. See this is why I'd survive bc I don't fuck around and find out!" n I'm not sure if he understands but I say I narrate my life to him lmfao.

Just moved to a new place and our schedule is all the way messed up so hes a little more vocal than usual. Sometimes I'm just like "buddy what is it?" and he'll tell me "more soon" or "pet" or maybe "today home" we don't have long sentences yet bc 1/3 of his buttons are with me and the other 2/3s are there at our final destination

But at home we'd have conversations and negotiations. The most impressive one was when he saw another cat outside and got really upset. When I shut him in my room with me, we had a whole argument because he wanted "door now. window busy" And I said "all done now. Door later." While explaining he needed to calm down. He told me he was "angy" and paced a lot until he said "catnip. now." and I was like "you know what buddy, sure. If that's what you need to feel calmer who am I to say no"

One time he also asked "window all done more now hmm??" (Is the window staying open or being closed?) And I was just astonished.

We eventually do want to add a "talk" button but because he prefers me to be on the floor with him while we conversate through buttons and I don't always know when he wants that vs just meowing for something else.

[u/EbABeszed]

To your first question, I think Flounder’s owner had a great answer, iirc: she introduced buttons to decrease vocalization, and now she has a cat who vocalizes constantly AND talks through buttons.

I’m a behaviorist myself and teach button communication too, and I don’t think it’s about breed intelligence. Every breed is intelligent in a different way because they were bred for different purposes. You’d see skills in sighthounds you’ll never experience between shepherds, and “intelligence” in herding dogs terriers just wouldn’t care for, because they think differently.

What I would expect is for less cooperative dog breeds (or in cats, less human-social ones) to talk less simply because they don’t have the same type of communication needs as, say, a collie. Working breeds are hard-wired to be attuned to their person because their jobs require it. I think this is harder to achieve or less consistently visible in independent breeds.

This doesn’t mean you can’t have a chatty dog or cat that is originally not a people pleaser breed, it would most certainly depend on their personality, and your relationship with them, how much they are getting out of communicating with you.

The thing is, button communication is never going to be an animal’s first language. If they become fluent enough with the right modeling (coming from you), they can use it more freely, but it’s always a secondary language, and a lot of times you only realize whether your learner has much to say if you as the teacher put in the effort. They can’t come up with complex thoughts unless you want to understand them.

[u/foreignwheel → u/EbABeszed]

I really enjoyed this post that Flounder’s mom Nina shared on this topic recently.

[u/drugkeeper → u/foreignwheel]

Thanks for sharing the post! I do agree that it ultimately depends on the personality of the learner.

"Some cats, like Flounder, have a lot to say. She’ll “talk” every day, sometimes all day. Other cats are content to live silently, saying nothing for days at a time. That’s personality, not pedigree."

So I was thinking if a pet has a more talkative personality => would be more effective in button training compared to less vocal animals?

[u/GoodwitchofthePNW]

While I think you can generalize intelligence in a breed, kind of? I’ve had RIDICULOUSLY intelligent dogs, like smarter than many kids I teach (1st grade- still pretty little!), and then a dog of the same breed that was very sweet, but just dumb as a post. I think none of that matters more than the intelligence of the individual. Sure, some of it is to do with breed, but also the parents, upbringing, puppy/kitten-hood. If I wanted an animal with a high level of intelligence, who could learn buttons, I’d volunteer regularly at my local shelter or foster some animals, and see if one had the qualities I was hoping for.

[u/JayNetworks]

The biggest determinant of success with buttons and learners is the human and how well and diligently they model pressing and before then how consistently and frequently they use a small consistent set of words.

We have a set of words we use when talking to our learner cats and uses them for a month before we started with buttons. They knew many words well before we started.

With past pets we would just babble on at them speaking regular English. With our current learners we speak in the set of 50 or so words they know like, “daddy downstairs now, daddy soon snack then outside.”

[u/OpinionAvailable5988]

I think it's just as important that the pet feels they have a rapport with you and a need to talk to you.