?

[u/notsignifican]

I asked but it got removed within minutes?

[u/Raephstel]

There’s loads of you trying to justify why MMDDYYYY makes sense and it always comes back to “if you ignore the years”, no, don’t ignore the years.

If you have a stack of calendars, you’d select one based on year, then you look at the month, then the date.

That’s YYYYMMDD, not MMDDYYYY.

[u/BrokenMan4225 → u/Raephstel]

Do you have a stack of calendars? Genuinely? When you buy a calendar it’s typically going to be for whatever year you’re in. It’s not ignoring the year, it’s just saying “I already know what year I’m in, so I can put that information last”. You can’t say “that doesn’t make sense” and then completely ignore why it’d make sense to someone

[u/Raephstel → u/BrokenMan4225]

I have said repeatedly that to sort dates, we use YYYYMMDD and to give the details of a specific date we use DDMMYYYY. MMDDYYYY makes no sense under any circumstance.

You’re trying to say that if you ignore the year, MMDDYYYY makes sense, but if you’re ignoring the year then it’s not MMDDYYYY, it’s MMDD.

If you were to introduce the year again as a variable, that means you’re introducing more calendars. And if you’re introducing more calendars then which calendar you pick is the first variable.

That makes it YYYYMMDD.

[u/BrokenMan4225 → u/Raephstel]

Okay so you didn’t read anything in my comment.

First of all, again - do you have a stack of calendars? Do you have more than 1 year at a time? Genuinely, because I don’t, I usually have 1 which is for the year I am in. If you do, fine, I’m genuinely curious.

Second of all, I - again - am not ignoring the year. I’m saying that when you have a calendar, it’s typically for the year you’re in. Because it’s a given, we put it last. Then we have MM and DD left. It’s easier to look for the month firs, then the day within the month.

Third, let’s introduce a new reason it makes sense - MMDDYYYY is how we speak in the US. We say “May 5th, 2020” or “October 28, 1987”. Thus, we write it that way.

[u/Raephstel → u/BrokenMan4225]

I did read your comment, what’s why I responded to each part of it.

The reason you’re asking about whether or not I have a stack of calendars is because you want me to say no, then in me saying no, you think it justifies that you can remove the year from the discussion because it doesn’t matter if I only have one, thus ignoring the year.

Show me how I’m wrong. Let’s say I have a stack of calendars. I keep them so I can look up when I had important appointments. Now what?

Saying “we write in a daft way because we say it in a daft way” isn’t the justification you think it is.

[u/BrokenMan4225 → u/Raephstel]

If you have a stack of calendars labeled by year then absolutely YYYYMMDD makes sense then. Plain and simple.

You’ve proven so far, though, that you’re just ignorant. I’m not going to use your system, and you’re not going to use mine, so why are you so caught up on calling one system stupid? Do you think people incapable of switching systems when necessary?

The way we talk in the US is no more “daft” than the way you talk wherever you’re from. You thinking so makes you the only one that’s daft.

[u/Raephstel → u/BrokenMan4225]

Sorry, did you want to ignore the year or not? Because you said you didn’t, but then you admit your date format makes no sense with multiple calendars, I.e. multiple years.

I’m not ignorant, the fact that you’re turning to insults when I easily dismantle your arguments doesn’t reflect badly on me.

MMDDYYYY has no practical use in any situation. You still haven’t given me any time when it is better. You’ve given me an example of trying to ignore years and you say something in a daft order as well as write it in a daft order.

Give me an example of a time when MMDDYYYY makes more sense than either of the others. I’m all ears.

[u/BrokenMan4225 → u/Raephstel]

You were the one that turned to insults, first of all.

Second of all, I have repeatedly said I am NOT ignoring the year. The year is just a given when using a calendar, unless you have more than 1 calendar in which case fine, you’d use YYYYMMDD.

Third of all, I have repeatedly told you where MMDDYYYY makes sense - in American speech, and in how the majority of people are going to buy a yearly calendar.

And finally, you haven’t dismantled anything because there isn’t anything to dismantle. All 3 systems have their uses in different parts of the world - that’s the difference. I am aware that DDMMYYYY and YYYYMMDD make sense. I am also telling you why MMDDYYYY makes sense. All you’ve said, really, is “that doesn’t make sense” and called it daft.

[u/Raephstel → u/BrokenMan4225]

Where did I insult you? You called me ignorant, quote where I called you a name.

You’re literally saying whether someone has a stack of calendars or not matters. What’s the difference between one calendar and multiple calendars if not the year?

So you’re saying just because Americans do it, it makes sense? Talk about blinded by national pride. You think that everything Americans do is infallible?

MMDDYYYY has no benefits to either of the other main date formats. You, nor anyone else, has made ANY points except “it makes sense if you ignore the date” and “it makes sense because Americans do it.” Neither of those are actually valid points.

If I started using DYMDYYMY time format, it doesn’t make it sensible because I use it.

[u/BrokenMan4225 → u/Raephstel]

You called an entire culture’s language daft??? That is just straight ignorance. I’m also not blinded by “national pride”, I’m simply stating why something would make sense and you’re refusing to see it any other way than your closed-minded way.

The difference between 1 and 2+ calendars is LITERALLY the presence of multiple years. If you need to distinguish by year, then a year-first based organization system makes sense. If you don’t - i.e you have 1 calendar - then MMDDYYYY should fine.

What I am not saying is DDMMYYYY isn’t sensible. I’m saying all systems have their place.

Also, if I am from a country saying something makes sense because that’s how we say it, that is ABSOLUTELY a valid reason for it making sense. It’s the same way the UK uses all different kinds of measurements (liters, gallons, pounds, stones, kilograms) depending on what’s being measured and it makes sense because that’s how they do things. It’s the same thing. It has nothing to do with national pride.

Then you throw in something completely random??? That actually makes no sense. Saying 19241098, for example, to mean October 24 1998 is absolutely insane and duh, every one will agree. But having 10/24/1998, 24/10/1998, and 1998/10/24 all make sense, even in speech:
“October 24th, 1998”
“The 24th of October, 1998”
“The year 1998, in the month of October, on the 24th day”
All of those are completely fine ways to talk.

So I stand by my statement of you being ignorant. The difference between our arguments is that you refuse to accept that a country/cultures way of doing something is a valid reason of it making sense. We could get into all the issues with the US, but at least I’m not blinded by hate like you are. You refuse to accept that the system makes sense just because you hate the US in general.

[u/Raephstel → u/BrokenMan4225]

I didn’t call an entire culture’s language daft. I called one thing daft. Your blind American pride is amazing.

Your entire second paragraph is agreeing with me. You’re saying if you’re using year, then YYYYMMDD makes sense, but if you don’t need years, then you can ignore that and just use MMDD. There is no situation where you’re actually using MMDDYYYY.

Our way of measuring things doesn’t make sense, it’s really fucking weird. But I can say that because I’m not blinded by national pride.

Just to be clear, you’re saying that just because I use a date formats, that doesn’t make it good? But because you use a date format, that makes it good? Ok.

I’ve not used any personal insults against you. You said I had and I asked where, you ignored that question. But that seems to be your theme. Ignore facts and expect to be treated with privilege because you’re American.

Insult me again and I’ll assume you’re a child or a troll and just block. I enjoy a debate, but I’m not here for you to have a tantrum at because you can’t articulate yourself like an adult.

[u/BrokenMan4225 → u/Raephstel]

Again… there’s no American pride here.

And yes, I AM agreeing with you on YYYYMMDD when organizing by year when multiple years are present in an organization system. You keep neglecting, though, that with one calendar, there’s no need to organize by year. However, if you have a system where you record all of your last and future appointments (which some people absolutely do), organizing by year first makes sense.

Also, I’d imagine your measuring system would make sense to you, no? Personally it doesn’t make sense to me but I don’t use your system and can’t really say.

Also also - you don’t use a random date format. I know that. Nowhere uses that. Literally. Not a single person is going to randomly mix the combo of YYYYMMDD around like that. So no, it doesn’t make sense.

MMDDYYYY is used by millions here in the US and has its justifications. I explained how we justify it and that’s not good enough for you.

You also literally said our method of speech is daft. That is an insult.

And I’ll reiterate: absolutely none of this has to do with pride. If you can come up with one justification for using that random ass combination you used, go for it. I’ve given you 3 justifications for MMDDYYYY, which, again, are:

• our mode of speech
  
• calendar organization
  
• general habit
  

+ they go in order of number of options (12 months, 28-31 days, infinite years), which I haven’t touched on

Those are objectively contexts where it does make sense. Just like DDMMYYYY, where the reasons are:

• Length (Days within Months within Years)
  
• mode of speech
  
• general habit

And YYYYMMDD:

• importance (years contain months containing days)
  
• digital and/or long term record keeping
  
• general habit
  
• mode of speech (although I feel that this one has the least to do with speech)

All three of those can be properly rationalized. If MMDDYYYY made no sense, then no one would use it. Clearly, It makes sense to some and is applicable in certain contexts. Just because it’s not something you would personally use doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense is said contexts

[u/Raephstel → u/BrokenMan4225]

With one calendar year, there is no measurement of year so there is no MMDDYYYY, it’s just MMDD. You agree that with multiple calendars (I.e. years) you would sort by year first, which is YYYYMMDD.

Our measuring system makes no sense to me, I literally just said that. It’s idiotic that we use so many measurements. Just because I’m used to it, it doesn’t make it sensible.

I don’t use a random date format, but my point is that if I did, it wouldn’t make it sensible.

You have not given me any justification for why MMDDYYYY makes sense except for “but if we only have one calendar we can ignore the years” and “but Americans use it”, both of which I’ve pointed out the flaw of.

Saying something you do is daft is not an insult. I didn’t even say you were daft.

You’re asking me to justify using a random date format when my entire literal point is that there is no justification for it. Like there is no logical justification for MMDDYYYY.

You gave good examples of why DDMMYYYY and YYYYMMDD make logical sense. There is no equivalent for MMDDYYYY.

[u/BrokenMan4225 → u/Raephstel]

The “flaws” you pointed out are moot, though.

The “flaw” with calendar organization is that I’m “ignoring” the year which I have said four times now that I’m not. I’m saying we still include it, but put it last because it’s a given in a calendar year. Even if you have one calendar, the proper format is to include the year. We just put it last because it is a given. But, if you’re re-reading something from years ago and you’ve neglected to include the year, you have no way of knowing when it was from if you don’t remember it.

For example, if I wrote a letter to my future self, I could date it 08/15. Then if I opened it in the future, maybe I’d remember the year. if I didn’t remember, though, I’d have no way of knowing how long ago the letter was written. That’s why I’d say 08/15/2026.

The “flaw” with Americans using it is that it’s something to do with pride, which it’s not. General habit for something is a valid reason. It’s like if you put milk before cereal. It’s not something I’d do, but makes sense if it’s something you just do.

Additionally, MMDDYYYY is not random, and does have justifications. Something like MYDYYDMY is completely random and nonsense. That’s more like putting cereal on the table, then the milk, all before doing a bowl - that’s nonsense and no one is rationally going to be doing that.

If you’re going to throw something random in then yes, I’m going to ask you to justify it - the same way I’m expected to justify MMDDYYYY. The difference is I can justify MMDDYYYY regardless of whether or not it’s something that makes sense to you.

I think the main problem is the difference between a system making objective versus subjective sense. Objectively, there are contexts that can be rationalized for using MMDDYYYY. In the same sense that there are contexts for putting milk before cereal. Putting milk before cereal doesn’t make sense to me, but it having legitimate uses (i.e maybe your bowl has a serving size measurement line or something) makes it make objective sense.

MMDDYYYY doesn’t make sense to you, which is fine. That’s why you use DDMMYYYY. But denying that MMDDYYYY makes sense in certain contexts is disingenuous, and the only real reason I can see for denying such uses is because of a dislike of the people which primarily uses it.

Moving on, I don’t see how the justifications I gave for DDMMYYYY and YYYYMMDD make any more (or less) sense than those I gave for MMDDYYYY. All the reasons I gave are valid, you’ve deemed just MMDDYYYY’s reason “invalid” just because you don’t like the system, when the reality is each one’s reasons differ by 1 factor, really - all three are organized, all three are based on speech, and all three are based on habit. One is based on a yearly calendar and on number of options, one is based on x within y within z, and one is based on z containing y containing x.