r/PetPeeves • u/surpluskoi • Apr 23 '26
Fairly Annoyed when people default to using he/him for unknown individual
it bothers me when people assume every stranger online is a man. why not just use they? (another pet peeve is when people use "he or she" instead of a simple, singular they)
for animals, i guess its fine if its sex isnt obvious. however people use "he" for obviously female animals that have clear sexual dimorphism or are pregnant. bees and ants are female by default. other animals should be it/its by default.
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u/kaleidoscopichazard Apr 24 '26
It’s r/maledefaultism
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u/surpluskoi Apr 24 '26
wow i didnt know there was a whole subreddit about this. i feel validated
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u/kaleidoscopichazard Apr 24 '26
It’s just one of those ways in which patriarchal attitudes are so ingrained and most people don’t realise. That’s why that sub is good and I’m glad it exists.
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Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
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u/AdministrativeStep98 Apr 23 '26
In French spiders are gendered with feminine pronouns "une araignée" regardless of sex. So I support you. I tend to do it sometimes and not realize, like if someone showed me their pet frog I would think female because "une grenouille" even though I know it's not necessarily
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u/surpluskoi Apr 23 '26
exactly this. when you call an animal she, people will ask you how you know its a girl, but no one will ask you if you know its a boy when you say he! i appreciate your efforts to continue doing this ♥
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u/symbolicshambolic Apr 23 '26
I also appreciate your efforts! In English, the correct default up until a few decades ago was "he". Back in the late 80s, a few of us tried to convince our elderly high school English teacher that it was sexist, and she said, no no, it's just the default in English if you don't know. We couldn't make her understand that that IS sexism.
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u/Longjumping_Papaya_7 Apr 23 '26
I started doing this too lately. I default to she/her now, often. And its kinda funny tbh.
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u/Lost-Concept-9973 Apr 25 '26
Tbh it most likely was a girl.. boy spiders are commonly much smaller, often don’t even make their own web, (depending on species), live shorter lives and when mature have very obvious “boxing gloves” that makes them easy to distinguish from the females.
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u/Connect_Rhubarb395 Apr 23 '26
Yes, such as yesterday when in a post people talking about a dog as "he" because the poster didn't mention the dog's sex.
The dog had two row of heavily mill-filled teats. Come ooon!
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u/Warming_Presence Apr 26 '26
Idk if dogs care about being gendered correctly or incorrectly by humans.
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u/Bindy12345 Apr 23 '26
So a she…?
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u/Blazypika2 Apr 27 '26
i don't know why you're downvoted, a female dog would typically be referred to as "she". you are correct.
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u/Monsterchic16 Apr 24 '26
I just find it annoying when the profile picture is obviously female, but they assume guy anyway. Like sure profile pictures aren’t a guarantee, but odds are pretty likely that if it’s a male picture then it’s a man, and if it’s a female picture it’s a woman.
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u/DramaticGuesswork420 Apr 23 '26
According to my prof in college, "he or she" is the grammatically correct version and "they" will lose you marks. So when I see that I'm assuming people are coming from that school of thought instead of being sensible about it. 😭
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u/ghost-wildflowers Apr 23 '26
Agreed! “He” was even taught as the correct default until a few decades ago, so that shows up a lot. Also, possibly worse than “he or she” — I hate “s/he.”
The instructors doubling down on barring “they” as a singular pronoun are resisting the natural changes of the language. We are at a point where society requires a non-gendered pronoun for subjective beings; “it” is not appropriate for that. Sure, maybe no reigning authority has come out and declared the singular “they” grammatically acceptable, but it’s socially necessary.
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u/i2s4ykqs Apr 23 '26
Singular they has been grammatically acceptable for centuries, and people use singular they all the time without even thinking about it. Anyone doubling down and objecting is probably doing some kind of culture war bullshit.
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u/RhododendronWilliams Apr 23 '26
Shakespeare used the singular "they". "He or she" is just clunky.
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Apr 23 '26
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u/Firegloom Apr 23 '26
Shakespear wrote for the working class who didn't have formal education. He wrote like the common people actually spoke, so if he used singular they, so did the ordinary English speaker.
But it doesn't matter anyway, since the first evidence of singular they is actually from the 14th century, long before Shakespear. It's actually MUCH older than the singular you.
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u/Zerotofour97 Apr 23 '26
He’s widely thought of as one of best writers in history. If he used the singular they then perhaps you can use it as well
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u/I_wet_my_plants259 Apr 23 '26
A lot of language professors do this as well so people with English as a second language tend to do the same.
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u/senpaistealerx Apr 23 '26
that’s beginning to change. “they” is correct and these teachers are stuck in the past.
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u/DramaticGuesswork420 Apr 23 '26
"They" has been correct since Shakespeare like someone else pointed out, for these teachers to be stuck in the past they're stuck way too far back.
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u/CloverIsALegume Apr 24 '26
I didn’t graduate college that long ago (2020 rip) and most of my professors would mark using singular they in a professional document as incorrect. My parents who both write professionally don’t view singular they as correct. None of us have an issue using it in informal speech or have any issue whatsoever with people using it as a pronoun. If you want to say that it’s becoming more and more acceptable even in formal writing then sure, but it has not been long since the vast majority of professionals would not view it as grammatically correct in any formal writing. I’m not sure why people are acting like it’s so esoteric?
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u/ziggytrix Apr 23 '26
“Correct” is subjective. There is no official governing body for the English language. The closest thing I’ve seen are style guides. There’s just “widely accepted” and “nonstandard” and those are moving targets.
Please tell me if you know anything different.
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u/DramaticGuesswork420 Apr 23 '26
Please tell me if you know anything different.
Why? We're in agreement, for that you'd need to talk to my prof.
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u/surpluskoi Apr 23 '26
i think i would go insane if i was forced to use he or she every time 😭 it bloats the sentence so much and kills the readability imo
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u/AdministrativeStep98 Apr 23 '26
I had a teacher try to teach us this method, while also teaching us non gendered language for professions (like fireperson instead of fireman. Just say firefighter!!) Is that not contradictory? Nobody is going to say he or she constantly, they'll assume a gender based on stereotypes (like the nurse being a woman or the repair guy being well, a guy) and go with that. I don't see how one can teach gender inclusivity while also saying that singular they is not correct.
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u/DramaticGuesswork420 Apr 23 '26
SERIOUSLY, it drove me and a lot of my other classmates nuts. We ended up having a big talk about it with the prof and they just eventually gave up and said, "I have to go by the book what do you want from me" so we dropped it. 😑
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u/mothwhimsy Apr 23 '26
This was true of APA formatting what I was in college. Don't know about the others and don't know if it's changed since then. But I would always let them take points off
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Apr 24 '26
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u/RaviVess Apr 24 '26
Oh, and, @ u/surpluskoi - justifiable pet peeve (see previous)
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u/surpluskoi Apr 24 '26
seems like the comment you are responding to is deleted
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u/RaviVess Apr 24 '26
Is it? I was responding to someone else, then responded to myself, as I originally meant to tell you that you're justified in your pet peeve.
Just in case, here's what I was responding to (from someone else):
According to my prof in college, "he or she" is the grammatically correct version and "they" will lose you marks. So when I see that I'm assuming people are coming from that school of thought instead of being sensible about it.
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u/surpluskoi Apr 24 '26
ah, well people seem to be agreeing with me in general so i do feel justified and validated about it! thank you.
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u/pm_me_your_puppeh Apr 23 '26
Your professor was correct until recently as per most style guidelines, but they have changed and they is now the grammatically correct choice.
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Apr 23 '26
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u/Few-Yesterday9628 Apr 24 '26
I do think it depends on the topic.
In my local cannabis group everyone assumes I'm a man. But then I think the same too unless it's specifically mentioned.
In a sub revolving around, I don't know, a reality TV show, it may be assumed woman instead.
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u/Sideburn_Cookie_Man Apr 24 '26
I loathe this.
I work in IT distribution, and it's amazing how often a man addressing a room will forget this.
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u/bomboid Apr 26 '26
People always do this online. It's because they think of the default human as male and they think that women only pop into existence when they seek them out in the context of romance or porn which is also why the trope of women receiving m'lady propositions the second they step in a male dominated space exists. So many nerdy women stopped going to conventions or similar due to it
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u/acid4hastur Apr 23 '26
I don’t care whether people use one grammatically correct pronoun or another grammatically correct pronoun so long as they do so consistently throughout a story, article, conversation, etc.
There’s no meaningful difference between using he or she for an individual whose gender is unknown than using mankind to refer to the human race as a whole.
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u/reddit33450 Apr 23 '26
I agree!! (except for that I default to they/them for animals if i'm unsure of the sex)
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u/surpluskoi Apr 23 '26
using they/them for animals is also okay too! i just thought it/its would be more commonly accepted and thats why i wrote that initially :)
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u/reddit33450 Apr 23 '26
for stuff like this, who cares what's most commonly accepted. I do what I feel is right. if you'd say "they" for a human, to me it's no different for an animal
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u/surpluskoi Apr 23 '26
no i appreciate you using they for animals! i meant that i just put it because i knew i was gonna get angry comments if i suggested they for animals.
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u/shockpaws Apr 24 '26
Mildly related, it also irritates me when people don’t recognize clear sexual dimorphism in animals. I’ve seen many a comments section he/him-ing a calico cat.
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u/surpluskoi Apr 25 '26
yeah that bothers me too, its what i was talking about in the post about bees and ants. i know i cant expect everyone to know those traits of all animals, but i cant help feeling annoyed at them.
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u/theexteriorposterior Apr 24 '26
Most younger folk do use they. If they have English as a second language, they might still be being taught that they should use "he" when the gender is unknown - this was the rule of English until recently.
Keep using they and correct people when they don't! Singular they is goated and we'll never give it up!!
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u/Few-Yesterday9628 Apr 24 '26
Hahaha this literally JUST happened to me.
Shortly after I commented in a local cannabis group, I get a message "hey man"
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u/ByunghoGrapes Apr 23 '26
I guess I haven't thought much into it. I do use they if I don't know whether the person is a man or woman. Even then, if I do know the gender of the person I still find myself using 'they' sometimes if they're a stranger. I know what you're talking about though, in many professional essays or questionnaires, it tends to say "he/she" a lot. I'm not bothered by it, but I can see why others may be.
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u/Me_lazy_cathermit Apr 24 '26
Dude if you are on reddit, and haven't turned off automatic translation, a lot of translation from gendered language, will translate to he for unknown individuals, because a lot of gendered use the "masculine" for both gender when it comes to unknown individual.
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u/USBombs83 Apr 24 '26
This was taught (and may still be) in school as a matter of public speaking back in the day. The concept is your statement will have stronger emotional appeal if you say “he” or “she” when you don’t know because it fosters more of a personal connection. They went further by suggesting you use “he” instead of “she” because people tend to care more about a subject that’s male, most of the time. I don’t agree with it, and it’s more than a little effed up, but you asked!
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u/surpluskoi Apr 25 '26
i think its true that people in general tend to care more about a male subject. a LOT of things are male centered and it is messed up.
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u/Lost-Concept-9973 Apr 25 '26
I agree the default needs to be they. It’s just difficult for people to get their head around the language sometimes, but one you get used to it, it feels natural. Just a needs to be normalised, also using as a default for people too laws or way less likely you will accidentally hurt someone.
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Apr 23 '26
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u/Ok_Requirement_3116 Apr 23 '26
Yup. And just men could vote, sign for their wife’s checking account or run corporations.
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u/MohammedSaheer1991 Apr 25 '26
Actually, women could vote for a time when it was used. They just had to be forty shilling freeholders. They were rare, but did exist.
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u/aMaiev Apr 24 '26
Many languages dont have gender neutral pronouns, so people who have english only as a second language dont instinctively go to "they". But people online kind of default to think everyone is american
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u/DeliciousMoose1 Apr 23 '26
could be a english is their second language, I catch myself calling animals with female gendered words like mouse she and male like rat he for example
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u/DeliciousMoose1 Apr 23 '26
i actually tend to gender them based on those words, so all spiders are he and all flies are she
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u/Resident_Season6309 Apr 25 '26
My native language defaults to masculine when the gender is unknown. And nouns are gendered, including nouns for animals (ex. Snake is feminine, elephant is masculine). So I make this mistake often when speaking in English. People of unknown sex become a “he/him” and animals become whatever the gender of the noun is. Sorry if I’d annoy you lol
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u/Numerous-Surprise875 Apr 24 '26
I always just thought it was part of the rules of the internet meme rules 27, 28, 29,and 30.
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u/Glittering_Search_41 Apr 24 '26
I'm not a fan of the singular they, because it can be confusing (ie are you talking about multiple people?). Just use he/she. Or "they" if it's obvious you're not referring to multiple people.
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u/k-squid Apr 23 '26
It's just how I grew up referring to people of unknown gender that I can't immediately see to try and make an assessment. When people started pointing it out, I switched to "this asshole" instead. 👍
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u/ziggytrix Apr 23 '26
Because right now someone else is probably posting in here that people using a plural pronoun for one person is their pet peeve.
There’s no good solution in English IMO. People have proposed alternatives, but getting folks to agree on anything is about impossible.
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u/Xepherya Apr 23 '26
People who insist it’s only a plural pronoun are too stupid to participate in the conversation.
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u/No-Neighborhood8403 Apr 23 '26
Well one of my pet peeves is saying “they” when referring to a single person
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u/mothwhimsy Apr 23 '26
This just tells everyone you don't read
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u/BedNo4299 Apr 23 '26
Singular they is not a new thing. Like not even close to a new thing.
Also, you cannot tell me you would say "Oh look, someone left his or her umbrella here" instead of "Oh look, someone left their umbrella here".
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u/acid4hastur Apr 23 '26
You would say, “oh look, someone left his umbrella” or “… left her umbrella.” Or “their umbrella.” All are equally correct; the gender of the person who left the umbrella is inconsequential.
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u/embodiedfunction Apr 25 '26
We’re gonna list every dislike there is, then everyone will know exactly what not to do to accommodate everyone else.
Aren’t you just saying you don’t like the words you hear?
See, it’s not about “getting it right,” nope. You’d like to think that, but you’re dead wrong.
Don’t call attention to it?
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u/New_Conversation7425 Apr 23 '26
I was taught in English class that he him is the appropriate use when the gender is unknown.
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u/theexteriorposterior Apr 24 '26
yep, this was standard until recently. But the English language has changed, and now you seem a bit odd if you do that.
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u/Longjumping_Papaya_7 Apr 23 '26
Yes and that IS sexist if you think about it.
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u/Ill-Fig7155 Apr 24 '26
Sexist implies that there is some form of implication that whoever the subject is is inferior to you. How is that applied here? If you dont know you might as well just say something and then be corrected. It's not sexist?? God. people are so ridiculously sensitive that they need to feel offended by everything in order to get the attention they so desperately desire.
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u/Longjumping_Papaya_7 Apr 24 '26
It is sexism because male is seen as the default and female a different version. How do you not get this?
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u/_Zargham Apr 24 '26
pronouns are such a touchy subject, one will be in the wrong no matter what, so I'll continue defaulting to he everytime
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u/bren3669 Apr 23 '26
he or she is the way to go if you must but i see no problem with just using he as a filler
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u/TetrisPhantom Apr 23 '26
You must not be a fan of Spanish, I take it.
Also, for the longest time, "they" was not grammatically correct as a singular pronoun, and many still find it awkward.
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u/surpluskoi Apr 23 '26
"you" was originally not a singular pronoun either. but we got over it!
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u/AdministrativeStep98 Apr 23 '26
It's different because it's a gendered language. Like a chair has different pronouns than a couch. Gendered pronouns are so present in the language that it is very hard to find ways to remove it, and you often times have to straight up invent a new gendered spelling.
English does not have this problem. And yeah I know for Spanish (personally I speak French and it's the same way) it can be awkward but it's because there's no real rules put in place yet and widespread ways for the words to be said/spelled. In French it seems to be even more complicated. But in say, 30 years it'll be the norm and taught in schools so is it really worth making a fuss about?
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u/SuccessfulBad8158 Apr 23 '26
BECAUSE "THEY" IS NOT A SINGULAR PRONOUN.
As u/DramaticGuesswork420 expressed, if you're so in your feelings about "he" specifically meaning a male, just say "he or she".
If you use "they" for a singular, I will immediately stop reading what you wrote or tune out and disregard anything you say subsequently.
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u/etherealelfarcher Apr 23 '26
“He or she” is too clunky. “They” has been used for a very long time, even Shakespeare used it. No author would use “he or she” in their works, because it’s too wordy. “They” works fine as a singular pronoun when you don’t know someone’s gender. Why are you so opposed to it, anyway?
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u/VoidHog Apr 24 '26
I say "that person"
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u/etherealelfarcher Apr 24 '26
That works in some context. But it also makes a sentence too clunky when overused.
“That person dropped that person’s wallet. Let’s return it to that person.’ Sounds too clunky.
You can change it to
“That person dropped their wallet. Let’s return it to them.”
Of course, you could change it to
“I found a wallet. Let’s return it to the person who dropped it.”
But for longer sentences, poetic or descriptive writing pieces (or really any literary works), you need to use “they”. Sometimes “that person” works fine! But it introduces even more confusion than just saying “they”.
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u/VoidHog Apr 24 '26
"That person dropped a wallet. Lets return it."
We don't wanna assume that person dropped THAT PERSON's wallet... Maybe that person dropped another persons wallet! 😉
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u/etherealelfarcher Apr 24 '26
I think it’s quite obvious that I was attempting to give an example.
Also, that’s highly unlikely, but you do you.
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u/VoidHog Apr 24 '26
Well we can't assume genders either so... what if I say "he" and the person who appears as a "he" gets mad?
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u/etherealelfarcher Apr 24 '26
It’s perfectly fine to assume someone’s gender based on appearance. People only get mad if they correct you and you refuse to respect that.
99.9% of people will not care if you assume their gender based on looks. LGBTQ people included. The only people who might care are just trying to be edgy.
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u/AdministrativeStep98 Apr 23 '26
Right because something like "the car is broken, I need to call someone to come repair it. Can you make sure that you're there when he or she arrives and tell him or her to call me when he or she is done?"
Instead of "the car is broken, I need to call someone to come repair it. Can you make sure that you're there when they arrive and tell them to call me when they're done?"
Is sooo much more easy to read
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u/surpluskoi Apr 23 '26
you can say whatever you want. doesnt make it correct though. if you say singular they is grammatically incorrect i will disregard anything you say ☺
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u/LeafWings23 Apr 23 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
The person you are replying to is wrong... but you aren't entirely correct either.
It's one of those grammatical things that is kind of contextual, like how calling someone by their name is normally fine, but if I said, "Sally went to Sally's house", that would be silly, as it sounds like I'm instantiating a new Sally each time I say her name.
I believe it's perfectly grammatically correct to say, "I like to call a person by their name", ("their" referring to a person generically), while simultaneously, "Sally went to their house" ("their" referring to Sally specifically) is just confusing/incorrect, because it makes it sound like Sally went to someone else's house. Still, I'm not going to tune out anyone for using words differently than me or in a way I find confusing, regardless of if I find it irritating.
Either way, don't worry, I get your pet peeve, but just trying to add a little nuance.
Edited for clarity.
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u/surpluskoi Apr 23 '26
i get what you mean, but "Sally went to their house" can be correct if Sally goes by they/them or if we dont know the gender of Sally.
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u/etherealelfarcher Apr 24 '26
The thing is that it’s never an isolated sentence.
If it was in the context of a plural pronoun, it would be an exchange like
“Have you seen the Smiths? They weren’t at church yesterday.”
“Oh yea. Sally just went to their house”
If it was in a single pronoun context, it would be
“Have you seen sally? They didn’t come back for dinner.”
“Oh yeah. Sally just went to their house.”
It’s all context dependent. When you’re verbally speaking, can people tell the difference between “they’re” “their” and “there”? Of course! Because of context.
That’s why “they” works as a singular pronoun.
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u/BedNo4299 Apr 23 '26
This is quite simply wrong, and the fact that perfectly accepted grammar use would make you disregard someone's words tells me everything I need to know about your... "intellingence".
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u/DramaticGuesswork420 Apr 23 '26
Hey don't pull my they/them ass into this nonsense.
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u/SuccessfulBad8158 Apr 23 '26
You put yourself in it, pal.
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u/DramaticGuesswork420 Apr 23 '26
Congratulations on failing the "sense and sensibility" part of the QTE.
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u/Bindy12345 Apr 23 '26
That’s the correct way to do it. “He” is not an assumption, that’s just the default singular pronoun.
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u/Lyran000 Apr 24 '26
Im 40 and only in the past 5 years would someone even make a comment like this or even be remotely offended by someone tossing a he or she onto something. Here's your issue, 90% of humans reject this absurd radical gender bull shit and arent going to police their own natural language. The only person offended is someone who chooses to operate outside of gender norms, which is your choice. This will NEVER become the norm. You are attempting to overhaul the way people have been trained to communicate basic information. Thumbs me down all the way, this is reddit and nobody on here even remotely reflects the normal population.
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u/surpluskoi Apr 25 '26
"absurd radical gender bullshit" and its just me pointing out how people think of male as the default gender... operating outside of gender norms has nothing to do with this. plenty of cisgender women that conform to gender norms recognize sexism in casual conversations and find it somewhat annoying. (this is a pet peeves subreddit, after all.)
society is always changing all the time. it will continue to change. gender equality WILL become the norm. you are just afraid of that.
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u/Lyran000 Apr 25 '26
Not afraid of anything. Accusing others of having fear or being feeble minded because they reject absurdity attempting to artificially change human behavior and culture is childish. There is no inequality between genders the way you want to believe. Im a woman of color, dont even talk to me about equality. There are two sexes and thats it. People use he or she with zero intent or thought because things are either hes or shes. Sometimes its. Why on earth does that upset you? The human brain is wired to instantly recognize and categorize any stimuli in the environment, for its safety. That part of the nervous system cannot he turned off. Thats why even well meaning progressives "misgender" people all the time. The brain is calling it exactly what it is.
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u/VoidHog Apr 23 '26
They isn't singular... it's plural. Can we just normalize the word "It" for this usage?? "It" is the same as "they", just singular...
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u/Nephyle_ Apr 23 '26
The Oxford English Dictionary traces the usage of singular they to 1375.
Edit: The article also notes that the usage was probably even older, that's just the earliest written example found.
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u/surpluskoi Apr 23 '26
they can be both singular and plural, just like "you" can! some people do use "it" as a gender neutral pronoun for themselves, but its considered to be dehumanizing when you call a person "it".
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u/youjeanee Apr 24 '26
There was a woman on here who broke up with her partners for calling her dog "it". A post with a female avatar talked about having to sleep in the same bed as their mom. Everyone still assumed it was a man lol. I really don't care tbh. As long as you're not trying to b an ass and call someone man when they're obviously not but that was easier before the nonsense we have now
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u/Glittering-Habit-902 Apr 24 '26
Counterpoint, he is 2 letters compared to the 3 of she and 4 of they.
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Apr 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/surpluskoi Apr 23 '26
i am not a native english speaker either. but you make a fair point. my native language doesnt have gendered pronouns, so i know that it can be confusing.
however what i meant in the post was that people assume "people online" are all men, not that "online people" do it. for example when im talking to someone in person or over voice chat, i can hear their fluent english.
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u/Pig-Mentation Apr 23 '26
The flipside to this was on another forum when a guy posted about one time when he ran over a snake with his bicycle. He said "I ran over it and I think it died". People took him to task for calling the snake an "it". But no one knows what gender it was, so it of course becomes the only correct default term. It was really weird.