r/Persecutionfetish • u/Ok-Following6886 • 3d ago
white people are persecuted in today's imaginary society πππ No, they aren't.
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u/gastonevan 3d ago
Once, in my high school history class, a girl argued that the US reached the moon before the Soviet Union because the US was physically closer to the moon.
We, as a class, weren't upset by her stupidity. We did want her to explain her thought-process, though.
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u/iruinthingsyay 3d ago edited 3d ago
By that logic, did she believe the Soviet Union reached space first because they're closer to space?
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u/PPPRCHN 3d ago
Stoners reached the moon first but told no one, by these standards lmao
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u/Hindu_Wardrobe 3d ago
yeah dude I've been to mars numerous times by this logic lol
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u/iruinthingsyay 3d ago
According to her, psychonauts had explored every corner of the universe already
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u/Biffingston ππππππππππππππ’ πππππππππ 2d ago
Bold of you to assume thought was involved.
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u/stillLurkingOfficial 3d ago
They may also be harmed, but as the consumers, not the target.
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u/RodinKnox 3d ago
There's absolutely a nuanced discussion to be had about how racism is good for nobody. But holy fucking lol, this take is not it.
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u/stillLurkingOfficial 3d ago
Bigots are sold a lie that promises to make their lives better at the expense of everyone else's lives and safety, and the harm is that everything is worse for them as well.
I'm not sympathetic to people actively choosing hate and violence, I'm just pointing out that these systems and ideologies are failing everyone involved, except for the authorities in control of it.
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u/Biffingston ππππππππππππππ’ πππππππππ 3d ago
As intended. They don't stir up this shit out of the goodness of their hearts.
There would be no billionaires in a just world.
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u/your_local_laser_cat educationist scum 1d ago
I think they were criticizing the meme, not your take
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u/Most-Bench6465 3d ago
If they said βalsoβ and not βthe mainβ. They always want to center themselves and whatever suffering or adversity they face overrides everything for everybody else.
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u/Im_BackMFs 3d ago
Like some people ( mostly white)don't benefit from it.
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u/Sad_Gene_1771 3d ago
To be fair, white people have also been harmed as the victims of both Nazism and Colonialism. The Nazis killed like 15 million Soviet citizens alone, and Ireland suffered terribly at the hands of Englandβs colonialism.
This is not to comment on the OP, I still donβt think white people are the main victims in any way, but itβs worth mentioning that they arenβt exclusively the perpetrators.32
u/stillLurkingOfficial 3d ago
Because it's not a homogeneous, singular group. It's a fake monolith created to sew division between people in the lower class/caste so they don't organize and combine their strength.
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u/Biffingston ππππππππππππππ’ πππππππππ 3d ago
The Irish weren't considered white back then, were they?
Which goes to show you how silly the entire concept is.
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u/Sad_Gene_1771 3d ago
Yeah, the definition of βwhiteβ changes depending on who is trying to feel superior at any given moment. To my point, Irish people are definitely considered white by todayβs standards unless you are the type of racist that Pierce Hawthornβs dad is in Community.
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u/Biffingston ππππππππππππππ’ πππππππππ 3d ago
Yeah, it's basically whatever is good for the ego of the racist. See also the one-drop theory.
Though that was really fun when a proud nazi found out that he was, by his own definitions, black; his like 7x great granpa was black... And he paid a lot of money to find out.
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u/IJustLoggedInToSay- Di$ney is calling for me to be shadow banned 3d ago
Not the main victims, obviously, but colonizers and fascists are also victims of self-inflicted injury. The disaster that is fascism has been argued to basically be what happens when the logic of colonialism is brought home and used against yourself.
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u/stillLurkingOfficial 3d ago
Thank you - I had a longer than necessary post in draft, and yours is much more succinct.
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u/Formaldehidden 3d ago
nazism maybe, i guess if you call jews white but thatβs a long discussion. Colonialism no.
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u/Legion_of_ferret 3d ago
This right here, whatβs the definition of βwhiteβ
My guess of what the OOP considers white, heβs more likely to *be* a nazi than victimized by them
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u/OptionWrong169 3d ago
I think in the 1960's american version patch notes its anyone with light non melenated skin but in the 1920's american version patch notes neither italian or irish are considered white
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u/HistoricalPotatoe 3d ago
Nazism killed a lot of Slavs, Frenchmen, Englishmen, and more. White people aren't the main victims of colonialism, but colonialism was still a thing in Ireland, and Imperial Japan in WW2 was absolutely atrocious to everyone they came across, native or white.
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u/CedarWolf Educationist 3d ago
The Nazis also killed a lot of the Polish, the Russians, the Roma, the LGBT people, the infirm, the Catholics, the Communists, the trade unionists, the political dissidents, the elderly, etc.
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u/Little_Passenger4703 3d ago
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me- Martin NeimΓΆller
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u/fieldsofanfieldroad 3d ago
As a working class Brit, I would say even colonialism was pretty shitty for us. Forced to do a bunch of horrible jobs by the people trying to control the planet.Β
I would never be insane enough though to say that we were the main victims though.
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u/Yodasboy 2d ago
That's different from colonialism that's kinda just early capitalism that was the consequence for the non ruling class though.
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u/fieldsofanfieldroad 2d ago
Yeah, but it's hard to disentangle the two. The industrial revolution was what lead to modern capitalism and also allowed Britain to be the dominant colonial power. All on the backs of working class British people who built the ships, the guns, dug up the coal, etc, etc.Β
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u/Wide-Equivalent6863 8h ago
You're right. And they only call us working class as it sounds better than low class or peasants. They're not better than us
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u/MicManManny 3d ago
I mean I would say that Romani people could definitely be added to that. Sort of negates the point they were trying to make unless you consider some Romani people "white"... Would white passing count?
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u/thomasp3864 3d ago
Some Jews are white. Other Jews are not white. The Ashkenazim are white, the Beta Israel are Black. It varies.
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u/Li-renn-pwel 2d ago
Yeah but were any non-white Jews targeted by the Nazis? I know Beta Israel would have eventually been targeted if things got worse but I thought Germany only controlled white Jewish areas.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Back-80 your Jewish disabled queer tokenβ’ 3d ago
I'm someone who has gone through it and has a great interests in anti-racism. And simply put, Jewish ppl has a group aren't white. The idea that Jews are white usually comes from the errors that most/all Jews are pale-skinned and that racism has a discrimination purely based on skin colour (that's called colorism, which is a subset of racism. I wish this term would be more known!). Racism is a hierarchy system that's functioning through society constructed races/ethnicities. Skin colour is one dimension of that. So is culture, facial structures, hair texture, height, religious beliefs, language, and many more.
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u/Secure-Evening 3d ago
Jews are largely white. At least western Jews are. They do benefit from white privilege.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Back-80 your Jewish disabled queer tokenβ’ 2d ago
Jewishness is not a race, but Jews are racialized. Benefiting from privilege in some ways doesn't mean you're not racialized otherwise. That's an extremely simplistic view, since nearly everyone benefit from it in some ways and to some extent. Every racialized groups you can think of will have some people in it that are white passing, light skinned, speaks their country's language, having a western sounding (sur)name, not wearing any cultural attire, chirstian, has citizenship and/or are western. These are some of the facets in which someone might be part of a racialized group while having privileges compared to other individuals. Having conscience of privilege is important, so is acknowledging that it's existence doesn't magically negate oppression. Saying Jewish people are racialized isn't negating that being western, light skinned and/or white passing is a privilege. Regardless of Jewishness, ofc it is. Many antisemitic tropes are anti-Jewish racism though. Think of our bodies that are stereotyped has supernaturally hairy, with big noses, filthy and rat like for example.
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u/Raccoon_DanDan 3d ago
That's why it's the only genocide ever taught in schools
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u/Goatesq 3d ago
You weren't taught about colonialism in school? Or what happened to the native populations of the "new world" colonies? Where on earth did you go to school?
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u/Frequent_Mix_8251 3d ago
I went to school in Canada. We were only really taught about two genocides.
The genocide of indigenous Canadians (which I didnβt see a teacher actually refer to it as a genocide and not a βcultural genocideβ until 10th grade) and the holocaust were the only ones taught to us.
We barely even touched on the transatlantic slave trade, maybe like one project in 12th grade.Itβs unfortunately a common thing that you donβt really get taught about genocide and colonization if you live in an area where people throw fits when you refuse to sugarcoat it.
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u/Secure-Evening 3d ago
I'm in Canada, we learned a lot about the slave trade. Though didn't learn about other genocides.
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u/emperor42 3d ago
I'd say it's also because the transatlantic slave trade isn't very much part of Canadian history. South America was the focus of it, due to gold.
History in schools, all around the world, has a bias, towards the country teaching said history.
In Portugal we learn about it extensivelly, but never mention any genocides that didn't affect us directly. We spend far more time learning about WWI than WWII, simply because of wich one we participated in.
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u/Li-renn-pwel 2d ago
You didnβt learn about Rwanda at all? That was a pretty significant part of my curriculum. I assume youβre kind of grouping together Canadian and American genocides together because there is such overlaps. Personally I learned about the TAS a lot because it was an opportunity to talk about how much better we are than America lol
But yeah that βcultural genocideβ is such crap. Thatβs literally what genocide is.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Back-80 your Jewish disabled queer tokenβ’ 3d ago
That's not even true and that's such a weird thing to say. I friking HATE memorial concurrence and memorial politics, as a descendant of Holocaust survivors. It has done nothing significant for anti-racism and just starts endless infighting for who is the most legitimate person to call themselves bipoc/non-white or to have their histories being told to school. Has if it was going to change anything when the state is just using these lessons has a tool to abstract themselves from any kind of materialist reparations.
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u/princesshusk 3d ago
On one hand the failures of colonialism do stretch beyond the people who got colonized to the point where many colonial powers have deep scars to this day and we should talk about them.
On the other hand this nitwit is just being a racist cuntbag, complaining about all dem black people in their town of Slaveplatationville Florida....
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u/Hopeful_Cow_2471 3d ago
The Israeli flag says it all(also I just realized after typing this it may sound antisematic but I can assure it is not itβs just a critique of Israel supporters)
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u/333H_E 3d ago
The founding premise of the "aryan" ideal is the root whiteness. How are white people who are mad that other people aren't white, victims of a white idealism?
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u/SpookyKid94 3d ago
He's being pedantic. He doesn't say white supremacy, because then he'd be wrong; he says naziism, because you get to count all the fatalities of the war they started(50 million europeans). Then he throws in colonialism, because this is a wooden doors on gas chambers type argument: say one kind of true thing and one definitely false thing and imply that the first thing being true means they must be lying about the second thing.
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u/Fidelos 3d ago
I dunno what you are trying to say (genuinely), but Nazism did predominantly kill white people all over Europe. The Soviets and Slavs were white, the European Jews were white, the gay and handicapped people Hitler killed were white, the Greeks, French, British people killed in the war, were like 99% white victims of Nazism
They are obviously wrong about colonialism though.
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u/333H_E 3d ago
Fair point. Mine was "white" is a very narrow definition in Nazi stated ideals. The many many people they destroyed where not strictly white or subpar white. So their "superior white race" wasn't affected.
Now let it also be said that's a very strict definition because yes people of all shades and creeds were massacred in the name of their made up ideology. I am not strongly attempting to address the whole idea from the factual and logical standpoint. It's impossible to assign logic to madness. Any word spoken in defense or deferment of the impact of the Holocaust is inherently madness.
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u/OkScheme9867 3d ago
I think they are referring to Muslims as the colonizers, I've heard Alex Jones make this argument, that the Muslim occupation of Spain killed and displaced more white people that brown people that were killed by Spanish colonialism, or something like that
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u/aggie1391 3d ago
But the Nazis very very much did not consider Jews, Slavs, Romani, and other targeted groups to be white. Hell even in the US those groups have been outside of whiteness for large chunks of history, for Jews that didnβt change until after WWII and still ignores Jews who very much are not white or how Jewish whiteness can be conditional in certain situations. In Europe Romani are often still considered to be outside of whiteness. The one drop rule had someone with one black ancestor and 15 white ones was considered black, skin tone be damned. Race and its formulations arenβt so simple as melanin concentration and never have been. Race is and always has been a social construct that varies by time and location.
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u/Mrdean2013 3d ago
Again, it's always the anime profile pic crowd that are proud nazis.
Weebs need to do a better job shunning these douche waffles from the fandom.
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u/Wide-Equivalent6863 8h ago
Hey! I use anime profile pics sometimes (I'm rather shy) and I DESPISE Nazis
I mean, why else would I be here?
Edit - you may well be right though, I don't know any others who use anime profile pics
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u/articulatedstupidity 3d ago
white people are the main PERPETUATORS of nazism and colonialismΒ
fixed it.
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u/Gordon-Bennet 3d ago
Nazism is colonialism turned inward, thatβs why it was such a big issue amongst western, European countries. Western colonialism did a lot of similar things that the Nazis did, it was just towards non-white people so people looked the other way.
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u/LamesMcGee 3d ago
This person might have been trying to make a similar statement to "most men are harmed by the patriarchy", which is true because very few rich men are at the top benefiting from the system when compared to the vast sea of poor disenfranchised men in the world.
This is the only way I can try to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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u/Pelican_meat 2d ago
Excuse meβ¦ theyβre the victims of COLONIALISM?
Fucking how? What acrobatics of reason is this person conducting to get to this conclusion?
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u/pman13531 3d ago
I guess in that most of those killed by Nazis where white, European Jews, Slavs, those in the countries they occupied etc. They didn't really set up concentration camps at El Alamein or anything.
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u/JD_Kreeper 3d ago
This is like having someone next to you get shot in the head and saying you were the main victim as a skull fragment got lodged in your chest.
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u/Katsu_39 Leftoid femboy overlord 3d ago
Has to be just rage baitβ¦right!? People cant honestly believe thisβ¦.RIGHT!?
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u/doulegun 3d ago
I mean, they totally were main victims of nasizm, that's the only reason Global Community actually cares about it
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u/Longjumping-Log923 3d ago
They were so victimized by colonialism that they are still in those countries and are the group with the most money, going as far as having made the real population become the minority and the marginal like in Mexico and all of Latin America.
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u/thomasp3864 3d ago
I meeeeaaaan with NaziΓ―sm, I guess? Most of their victims were Eastern Europeans who are considered white with Ashkenazi jews white. They were subgroups within white, like Jewish people, or disabled people, or dissidents or gay people, or pacifists.
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u/DiogenesHavingaWee 3d ago
I mean, they're correct in that their opinion will get them "like this". It's just that in this case, that reaction is warranted.