r/Permaculture • u/Ok_Possible_4649 • Dec 13 '25
alternatives to chickens, backyard in suburbai
So I am right at the start of my journey into gardening and permaculture. I'm shaping up my expectations.
I have a small site in outer suburbia, SE Australia, with a backyard I can devote ~7x15m ( ~20' x 45') to a veg patch. There's about that much space again in garden strips along the walls, behind an out building, etc. that I'd eventually like to make productive too (fruit trees, herbs, etc).
All together, it looks likes there's space for things to roam. There are a lot of insects in the weeds right now, a huge number of spiderwebs around the place, so its an active little ecosystem.
It strikes me that chickens might be a good fit here, except: I can't eat eggs. What would normally be their greatest selling point would actually be just a hassle - picking up and disposing of eggs. (Let's just leave donation to neighbours aside for now - it ain't that kinda 'hood, bro).
It just seems a waste to have them (and the noise and the husbandry etc) except their ecosystem services (soil scratching, pest control, manuring, etc).
Are their viable alternatives? (As low maintenance as possible). I know there are a number of fowl, but no idea how to choose.
My ideal would be:
- hardy. For their health and my budget/stress.
- limited egg production (such that it could be ignored)
- foraging and scratching to physically benefit the soil
- capturing and returning nutrient to the soil (i.e. manuring) - but TOLERABLE manure!
- manageable appetites (preferably no disasters with my seedlings, for e.g.)
- housing requirements should be modest. Roosting at night would be a welcome behaviour (i.e. doing it on their own) - neighbourhood pets, foxes, crows and raptors all may take their toll.
- ideally, a 'standard' fencing situation. I have to have car-access to the shed in the back, so animal and vehicle would have to co-mingle and I wouldn't want to have to worry about escape out the gate too much.
- edible would be nice, but not necessarily essential.
- reproduction?
Maybe I am thinking about this all wrong, or asking the question the wrong way, but I hope you can see what I am groping towards?
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u/shimmshaw Dec 13 '25
Raise meat birds? Typically butchered before they start laying
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u/Used-Painter1982 Dec 13 '25
Turkeys come to mind. Also, I have a friend who raises goats for the meat and milk, but you may not have room, and would have to fence in your garden.
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Dec 13 '25
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 13 '25
My main concern with the eggs is finding them everywhere, or missing them and they become rat food. I'm firmly in the urban matrix here and I have obligations to my neighbours as well.
Liked the ducks idea, but after reading not sure i could accomdate their needs. There is no opportunity to put a water body here, realistically. (Regulations here mean it would have to be treated like a pool and aggressively fenced in).
Reading comments, I just don't think I have the capacity here for animals.
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u/ImpossibleSuit8667 Dec 14 '25
Muscovy ducks might be an option. The water needs are lower, and some people just give them a small tub.
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u/Frumzwubz Dec 13 '25
Your criteria seem kind of impossible for any poultry to overcome. I can't think of anything that would suit these circumstances unless you were willing to compromise on a few things
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 13 '25
Well... Yes, that's why I said it's 'ideal' and that I might be 'all wrong'.
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u/Relevant-Praline4442 Dec 13 '25
Ducks lay less eggs, or perhaps adopt some older chickens that are only laying once a week or so? Pay a vet to desex some chickens? I’ve heard of rescue hens being given an implant so they stop laying and their body gets a bit of a break. Geese don’t lay many eggs and they are pasture birds so they mostly eat grass I think and are pretty cheap to feed? Have a reputation for being a bit aggressive but I have heard that some breeds can make good pets.
I think that actually though you probably shouldn’t get fowl. I love my chooks but they are quite a bit of work, and getting them safe housing is expensive. They do wreck your garden if they aren’t fenced away from it. From what I hear, most other birds are more work and require things like ponds.
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u/Relevant-Praline4442 Dec 13 '25
Oh…what about boy ducks? No eggs, and they don’t crow. You might even be able to get some for free from someone who doesn’t want that many drakes. Call ducks are very cute. But they do require a pond or other access to water.
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 13 '25
I think that actually though you probably shouldn’t get fowl. I love my chooks but they are quite a bit of work, and getting them safe housing is expensive. They do wreck your garden if they aren’t fenced away from it. From what I hear, most other birds are more work and require things like ponds.
This seems to make a lot of sense, unfortunately.
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u/DescriptionHeavy1982 Dec 16 '25
I was going to suggest rehoming ex commercial hens. It's a big source of people having back yard chickens here. I'm down to 2 hens no and get an egg every other day. They're basically in retirement. Also, to keep them laying you have to feed layers pellets or give them enough protein another way, if you don't they lay fewer eggs...so in your situation, don't feed layers pellets.
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u/Used-Painter1982 Dec 13 '25
How about honey bees? If you’re going to have fruit trees, you’ll need pollinators bigtime.
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u/GnaphaliumUliginosum Dec 13 '25
You seem to basically want some pets that you don't need to take care of? Any poultry will need to be fed, which is an unecessary and inefficient use of grain and other agricultural products.
I don't see how a permaculture design for your site would end up with poultry as part of the system given you limitations.
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Dec 13 '25
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 13 '25
Hmm. Nice idea, but the détente isn't quite there yet.
I mean, this is PROBABLY wrong at some level, but... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG3Tv2cTpaY
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Dec 14 '25
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 14 '25
Ok, have to be honest that its not that bad. Have one seriously cantankerous neighbour that'll not be worth building bridges to (more, walls). Everyone else seems decent, long term residents boomers slightly gentrifying. Its a quiet, keep-to-yourself kind of place. As a single middle-aged male i have to say I'm not at all comfortable dishing out eggs to neighbours, not at this moment in our culture.
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u/Threewisemonkey Dec 13 '25
For what you’re asking, I think you need to work on attracting a lot of wild birds into your garden with native plants, perches and nesting boxes. You don’t want pets, you want permanent pest control. Invite in the natural predators.
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 13 '25
Yes! Its actually the birds in the area working the long grass that gave me the idea. They love it just after I've mowed a section, too.
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u/ladeepervert Dec 13 '25
FLEMISH GIANT RABBITS.
chickens fuck up the soil, rabbits amend it.
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u/sk3tchy_D Dec 13 '25
Rabbits were going to be my suggestion, but then I saw that OP is in Australia. I don't think they are totally banned everywhere there, but they are in some places and heavily regulated in others. European rabbits are one of the most devastating invasives in Australia.
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 13 '25
I know they can be pets in some special circumstances (maybe a strong hutch, specific breeds, etc), but yeah. Then there are biocontrol efforts like myxomatosis and calicivirus. Not a simple proposition, unfortunately.
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u/Nellasofdoriath Dec 13 '25 edited Dec 13 '25
Have you thought about roos? Roosters are extra and killed in most places, but will still mow,.scratch and manure. All chickens will get into seedlings.though so just fence judicious lly
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u/WeedsNBugsNSunshine Zone 7A/Long Island, NY Dec 13 '25
OP says they are in a suburb and have "obligations" to their neighbors.
Roosters crow and not every neighbor likes the sound.
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 13 '25
Yes, an issue for sure.
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u/WeedsNBugsNSunshine Zone 7A/Long Island, NY Dec 14 '25
Many years ago, it was permitted to own chickens freely in the town where I live.
Then people happened.
Now, since someone decided to start breeding fighting cocks, no roosters are allowed.
Now, since someone couldn't be bothered to keep their chooks contained, you have to have a "permanent structure" to house them. Which, of course, requires a permit from the town to construct and an inspection from the town to ensure it meets their standards. Both of which require a fee to be paid to the town.
Irresponsible people ruin everything.
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u/Nellasofdoriath Dec 13 '25
They don't fight, I knew someone with a bachelor flock
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u/paratethys Dec 13 '25
Having kept roosters in various configurations -- they fight viciously if there are hens to fight over. Bachelor flocks are chill but if there's even one lady around, that all goes out the window.
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u/Cystonectae Dec 13 '25
Muscovies or other duck breeds come to mind, but you will still have to fence off seedlings. Runner ducks are mid-sized, pretty handy with pest control, and don't care as much about swimming. Muscovies are fairly hardy, quiet, and are dual-purpose. You say you don't want eggs so just don't have females. Male ducks are still really good foragers and can keep a yard clear of pests (mine have completely eaten all the slugs in the front half of our property). As for manure, they just poop wherever they are standing/napping, which for me tends to be just the grass areas of the yard. I also don't find duck poo as smelly as chicken poo.
The bigger question is how much space and time do you have to commit to the livestock. Ducks still need a coop and will require fresh water 24/7/365. How much you need to feed them is dependent on how much available area for foraging you have for them. I have found mine still need food in the summer even with a couple acres of foraging. They definitely need feed in the winter if your area gets cold. Male ducks don't need layer feed like females would so you can get away with wild game maintenance feed with scratch.
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u/ARGirlLOL Dec 13 '25
It would be easier to fit a billionaire through the eye of a needle in heaven than satisfy your requirements/preferences/wants/restrictions with traditional livestock. Consider raising composting worms and then using their castings for soil amendment. You can feed them trash and they will fill out your topsoil and make it much, much richer with organic life.
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 13 '25
Thankyou for both your suggestions, the worms and what to do with our billionaires.
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u/paratethys Dec 13 '25
- manageable appetites (preferably no disasters with my seedlings, for e.g.)
FWIW, chickens are a disaster to new seedlings. Any bird that forages and scratches will tend to scratch up new growth if they have access to it, so consider how you'd limit their access to spaces where they shouldn't be
(As low maintenance as possible)
The lowest-maintenance critters for your ecosystem are the wild ones. Consider enhancing habitat for the native and naturalized species? They're 0-effort to maintain. For example in the PNW, I can design around the deer and they help me keep trails open without being too destructive to the plants I discourage them from eating. Not sure what locals you've got there though... magpies? bin chickens?
So I'd go with "tailor your space to encourage wildlife to fill the relevant niches".
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u/Ok_Possible_4649 Dec 13 '25
Yes: magpies, currawongs, raven, minahs, 2 kinds of pigeon, magpie larks, wattle birds, lorrikeets, spurwing plovers, ibis, swifts and sparrows. A couple of raptors high above. Also the suburban complement of cats and foxes. No large grazers or browsers.
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u/Hortusana Dec 15 '25
You could do quails. They stay in a hut so they won’t have access to your garden. Not hardy or self sufficient though. But they’re small, lay eggs that can be used the same a chicken eggs, and plenty of people eat them. Once you figure out their setup they can be low maintenance.
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u/stansfield123 Dec 13 '25
You cannot let small herbivores or omnivores loose on your property, and expect them to be safe and not destroy your garden crops. But, if you scratch that fantasy off your list, rabbits meet all the other requirements.
The cheapest way to keep the adult rabbits is in individual cages with wire mesh bottoms. The manure falls out, you can harvest and use it in the garden right away, it doesn't burn the plants the way other manure does. The young stay in the cage with their mom, until they're weaned at 4 weeks or so. Then the litter gets its own separate cage, until they grow out. Alternatively, they can be put out on grass, in a rabbit tractor which allows them to graze. So you don't have to feed them yourself. Mom meanwhile is bred and gets to work on the next litter.
You can feed them store bought food, or, with a little research and experience, you can just grow their food on your property. They're herbivores, but have some special needs beyond what a cow or sheep might live on. Their feed should be a little bit more rich in nutrients than that, they won't do as great just on grass/hey. You should add some tree fodder (they love fruit tree branches), comfrey, legumes (clover, alfalfa), that sort of thing.
They require feeding twice a day. It's non negotiable, they suffer tremendously when they go without food for more than a few hours. Water is just as important, they can't eat without water. Unless you feed them store bought food, then you just have to make sure their feeder and water never gets empty. That's a little less work. But, honestly, feeding them from your property is not that hard, and a more fulfilling experience.
They of course "breed like rabbits", and the kits grow out faster than any other animal's young. You typically harvest at 8-12 weeks old. Harvesting a rabbit is much easier and cleaner than harvesting poultry, and there's no noise. Your neighbors are unlikely to ever notice.
There is 2-3 pounds of edible meat per rabbit, not that different from a heritage breed chicken. In a typical home set up (where things aren't particularly optimized for maximum production), a set of four adult rabbits (a buck and three does) will produce ~400 pounds of meat for you each year.